LOOKING FOR TORY FORT&SWAMP ON ROUNDTOP

[ROCKYSUMMIT]

Ok. Calling All Catskill Area Experts! I've Read In Only One Old Guide Book About Remains Of An Old Tory Fort About 300 Ft. From Summit Of Roundtop Mt. I Hiked In Early May A Few Years Ago, Up The Eastern Side, But Found Nothing. Vegetation Was Starting To Grow In Pretty Good, Maybe That Was The Problem. Appreciate Any Info Or Interest In Giving It Another Look! Thanx, Tony

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

I'm not familiar with the area, but a quick google came up with this:

"...the British built a small fort between Kaaterskill High Peak and Roundtop."
Link

I hope this helps.

 

[Warren]

I..... almost .... remember.... a reference.... or trip report... from someone looking to find the fort....

I'll look when I get home and try to figure out what I came across recently with that info the only bit I remember had to do with thinking a depression may have been the old fort site.....

I may have crossed it in a search for Rip Van Winkle & katerskill or a product of the recent plane crash thread... or a book I recently looked at.... it's just beyond the orbit of my conscious mind..... damn.

Maybe later.......

 

[snowshoe]

I have not been to it but Warren is correct about a fort in that area. I think erd would be more familiar with it. I am pretty sure he lead a hike to it some time ago.

 

[Jay H]

It is mentioned in Alf Ever's Book "Wilderness to Woodstock" but also mentioned all signs to it is very hidden due to vegetation and general care. Might be going to Roundtop shortly, since I plan on doing KHP soon too.

Jay

 

[funkyfreddy]

This fort is mentioned on page 175 of "Hiking the Catskills" by Lee McAllister, one of my favorite Catskill books. I thought it was also mentioned in "The Catskill Forest" by Michael Kudish but I'm searching through that book now can't find any reference to it.

I think any traces of it would be hard to find because the fort was basically a large log cabin that was used over 200 years ago during the American revolution. Joseph Brandt, the famous Iroquois leader, apparently used it as a base from time to time during the war. I haven't climbed Roundtop yet so would be glad to come along and help look for it!

 

[hiker13901]

I tried finding fort twice but after hiking long day doing Katterskill ran out of energy. I read it in Lee's book also. I believe it is right on top and British used it to look at the Hudson River. I tried twice but the brush is so thick near the top and very steep also in spots hard to stay with it. Somebody should lead a hike and have many people comb the mountain and make that the only thing for that day.

 

[Mark Schaefer]

The best description of The Joseph Brant or Tory Fort location is in Michael Kudish's book The Catskill Forest, A History

One famous locality is the Tory Fort south of and below the col between High Peak and Roundtop at 2540' feet. This Revolutionary War camp, also know as the "Joseph Brant Fort," was used by Joseph Brant, a Mohawk chief, for one or two nights while leading prisoners to Canada.

This location is credited to Ed West who wrote an article on the fort in the 3500 newsletter, Autumn 1976. This "fort" is below the snowmobile trail which is at the 2800' contour in this area. I was at the "Tory Fort" on a June 1975 Catskill 3500 club hike led by Ed West. Today this fort is nothing more than a hole in the ground, and to my knowledge nobody is certain of its actual location. I have heard others claim the fort is higher. Ed West also believed Joseph Brant may have used the Hurricane Ledge as a lookout while using the fort.

 

[HikerBob]

I could be way off here, but this might be worth checking out.

I looked at satellite imagery using USA Photomaps (http://www.jdmcox.com ) and looked for anomalies. Of course the image data for this particular area is less than perfect but south of Roundtop summit at around 3,200' there is a pretty distinct rectangular anomaly. Might just be an artifact or the result of some other disturbance, but who knows?

Check out the image HERE which I enhanced the contrast on. The anomaly shows as a dark retangular mark tilted slightly right of vertical. As best I can determine it is about 600ft from the summit and is about 240ft long and 140ft wide. The top left corner of the anomaly has a location of approximately N42*10'1.3" W74*5'45.5"

Like I said, might just be a glitch but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who checks it out on the ground

Bob

 

[ROCKYSUMMIT]

Thanx For The Responces Guys.keep 'em Comin'.it Sounds Like I May Have Been Looking About 500 Ft.too Far Up The Mountain.could Swear I Read 300 Feet Above The Trail And About 300 Ft. Below The Summit On The Eastern Side.we're Going To Have To Plan A Trip,maybe In The Fall When Vegetation Is Clear.

 

[Rivet]

It's also mentioned in "A Rangers Guide to the Northern Catskills". I don't have the book in front of me.

I'm guessing that the easiest route may be a bushwack off the snowmobile trail coming in from the west.

 

[MattC]

The best description of The Joseph Brant or Tory Fort location is in Michael Kudish's book The Catskill Forest, A History This location is credited to Ed West who wrote an article on the fort in the 3500 newsletter, Autumn 1976. This "fort" is below the snowmobile trail which is at the 2800' contour in this area. I was at the "Tory Fort" on a June 1975 Catskill 3500 club hike led by Ed West. Today this fort is nothing more than a hole in the ground, and to my knowledge nobody is certain of its actual location. I have heard others claim the fort is higher.

The McCallister/Ochman books says it is on the top and that supposedly it afforded a view of both Plattekill and Kaaterskill Cloves. They also claim that traces of earthworks and foundations can still be found.

Ed Henry's book (which Rivet mentions) has it "500 feet below the summit" commanding a "wide view of the Hudson Valley" and "traces of...it's foundation remain on the southern face."

So there you have it Tony- the remains of the fort are on the summit, below the summit, and also below the snowmobile loop. Must have been a big fort. I for one, am dying to go 'whacking around for this thing. I'm currently nursing a hurtin' knee though so, I'll have to put it off for a while.

Matt

 

[ROCKYSUMMIT]

Hey Matt, Hope Your Knee Comes Around Real Quick. Yeah, There Seems To Be So Many Conflicting Reports.was Hoping To Narrow It Down A Little Before Going Back Up There. We'll Have To Spend A Long Day Scouting Around.thanx Again For All The Interest. Tony

 

[Mark Schaefer]

A complicating factor may be that the names of Roundtop and High Peak were switched in the 19th century when it was established that the original Roundtop was higher than the lower High Peak mountain. The original names are shown on this 1867 map. Yet another possible location of an "old fort ruin" is shown on this 1903 map on the southern slope of the current Kaaterskill High Peak (Roundtop during the Revolutionary War). An account of the Tory raids and Joseph Brant is located here.

Brant is said to have had an encampment or fortification nearly west of where the Snyders lived, on the side of the mountains north of the Plattekill Clove, from which he could look out upon a wide extent of country below, and decide where to descend and prey upon the inhabitants of that region.

The mentioned Snyder family lived in Saugerties which would favor a south side of Roundtop or High Peak location. Note that this site might have been an "encampment" in which case there may have been no actual walls. Being a clandestine operation multiple sites may also have been used.

Some old maps (including one on page 108 of Roland Van Zandt's book The Catskill Mountain House show the location of the Tory Swamp on the northern slopes of Roundtop and High Peak at about 2700', just west of the current Long Path and southeast of Santa Cruz ravine. That area along with the area labeled Pine Plains on the NYNJTC map #41 are probably the wettest spots on the mountains, but I would not call either a swamp. I did find a picture of a tomahawk on this webpage that was supposedly found in the saddle between two mountains (perhaps Roundtop and High Peak) near the "Great Tory Swamp". It is a long webpage, so do a find on "#9" or "Great Tory Swamp". The story is second hand at best.

 

[ROCKYSUMMIT]

Wow! Mark,pretty cool stuff.Love those old maps and info.