Marcy to Gray herdpath

[Reekee]

I've done Gray in winter and had the good fortune of 12 feet of snow to walk on above all the mess. Sooo how has the path developed for Marcy to Gray over the years in summer? The guides say it's not pleasant. I'm aware of the path from Lake Tear. I specifically would like to know the condtion of path from Marcy to Gray. Thanks.

 

[una_dogger]

To answer your question, the path has not developed and it is the hope of many that it will never develop.

I was on Gray sunday and I would not recommend going over from Marcy. The spruce is extremely thick in the col and also that route is highly discouraged.

Winter is one thing but why would you want to create impact across this beautiful unbroken ridge just to save a couple of miles?

Maybe your impact will not be great but when I think of all the people on that summit that will see you crossing and then get the idea to do it themselves, it will not take long to destroy that unbroken view.

Just my 0.02. Prepare yourself for some very very thick cover if you decide to do it. Sorry if my post seems harsh.

 

[elhefe007a]

I was there last year in the summer. The path is not really developed, but relatively easy to follow if you keep your eyes on the ground the entire way. It does get a little thick in places, so wear long pants, long sleeves if your going.

I've got some pictures here:

http://www.forthoseabouttorock.net/climb/ADK/graymarcy/graymarcy.html


I've heard going from Gray -> Marcy is easier than Marcy -> Gray, mainly because you will have a very hard time finding where the herd path begins on the Marcy side. There was a cairn when I was there marking it on the Marcy end - but I'm not sure if it is still there or not.

 

[albee]

To answer your question, the path has not developed and it is the hope of many that it will never develop.

I was on Gray sunday and I would not recommend going over from Marcy. The spruce is extremely thick in the col and also that route is highly discouraged.

Winter is one thing but why would you want to create impact across this beautiful unbroken ridge just to save a couple of miles?

1) Have you been through there or are you just relating other people's experiences? Are there many blowdowns? Cliffs? Gremlins? What you call "extremely thick spruce" might not be so bad to someone that has bushwhacked extensively.

2) Why is the route highly discouraged, and by whom is it discouraged? I have heard that *maintenance* of the route is discouraged by the 46'ers, and that the DEC would like to discourage inexperienced hikers from trampling the fragile alpine vegetation while searching for the herdpath on the Marcy side.

3) I bet you have never noticed the impact from all the other herd paths that are out there unless you were following them. You cannot visually see the route to Gray from the top of Marcy, so why would the ridge be any less beautiful?

I haven't done this route myself yet, so I can't give you my opinion on how it is. But I do know someone on this board that has followed it a few times and hopefully he will give you an answer.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I've been on that route, and sometimes the question is not whether you can find it, but which one?

I've been told the reason it's discouraged is that Gray's summit is nearly in the alpine zone, and to create a route between the two peaks to help destroy the illusion of unbroken woods when you're on the summit of Marcy.

Personally, I think part of the fallacy is the notion that "If you don't build it, they won't come" way of thinking in the ADKs. History has shown that isn't true - there are herd paths everywhere, including lots which don't lead anywhere, and all the rest. Lots of people defend this, and suggest it's all of the charm. But, I understand this is slowly changing - Pete Hickey can give you a much better overview as to the why's and wherefore's of creating real trails/encouraging the use of the better laid-out herd paths, etc.

 

[blacklab2020]

pic of part the route

A picture can be found here:

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2468645020082680123SeSMWd


We did this in July this year, from Gray to Marcy.

What seems to be discouraged is damage of the vegetation in alpine zone... please stay on rocks when possible and do not make an effort to make the herd path wider.

The path is tight... may be compared to something little kids would play in, running/crawling through the brush looking for hiding spots. It is barely discernable and easy to lose. We think we followed it the whole way... there were times we were looking at nothing but dense trees and had to push/fight our way straight between them without a clue as if that way was the trail, and it would turn out to be correct. Other times trees would pick a fight with our packs over our heads and or straight into your forehead... its definitely 90 percent bushwhack, 10% trail

As elhefe007a pointed out it is followable and easier to pick up from gray going to marcy. Coming the other direction may be difficult to find the beginning of the herd path.

Nonetheless if you enjoy tight paths in the woods, this may be for you.

 

[una_dogger]

I read all of your opinions carefully Albee and I recognize that Reekee is a very experienced bushwacker who has taken this route in winter and I do not doubt that he/she is also very ethical.

The question was if the path had been developed yet this summer.

I felt that I had clearly stated that my comment was my opinion, and I have come to that opinion from reading the opinions of others on this very topic, as well as conversations with those who have taken this route in Winter and Summer.

My point is that what we have developing with respect to the Marcy/Gray route is a route that; if taken from Marcy; originates from the Alpine Zone and also from a point where the highest density of hikers on a summit exists in the Adirondacks. So the potential for the path to be broken out and become a standard route is really high, in my humble opinion. A really high potential for those that either lack the experience or who will not minimize thier impact to observe others travelling that route and decide to go as well.

There are so many other places in the Adirondacks where this situation doesn't exist, and maybe I see those as better choices for bushwack approaches.

As for my comment about unbroken views, there are many adjacent areas in the Adirondacks where the col between Marcy and Gray is visible. I saw it from several angles this weekend, and the sightline is visible from Gray to Marcy. Given the fact that Marcy is the most climbed mountain in the Daks, I seriously doubt that any herdpath originating from it will resemble any of the other herdpaths in the Daks and will more likely become a highway like all the other trails on Marcy.

Maybe we will need to agree to disagree on the development of this path, that is OK with me.

 

[Reekee]

Thanks for all your information and opinions. They were very helpful.

 

[ColdRiverRun]

To answer the initial question and I believe its intent. Go around and hike the slight up and down it takes to go Marcy to Gray. It is not worth the time, effort or “ecological impact” that it takes.

It only takes about 14-22 minutes on the very open herd path up Gray. The then intersected trail leading up or down Marcy is hard pack and fast trail. Searching and pushing through the thick alpine vegetation that is like rubber with steel tips would take you almost the same time but leave you less aggravated and less torn up.

The use has been frowned upon especially from Marcy to Gray. That is more important in that the cairns keep getting taken down and may not be there when you go.

The big mistake was putting it in the AMC High Peaks Region and letting non bushwhack types hear that there is a herd path there, they tend to think open trail when hearing this. When you initially leave Gray the path is pretty apparent and it is following it until a rock out crop that you need to descend or climb from Marcy. This is where everyone then seems to then make a scramble. They think “oh it’s not that far I just push through when they lose the path. It would be hard to say lose the path because it does become a scramble where almost every direction at that point has been gone through. Coming from Marcy people all the sudden see that rock out crop after getting frustrated and aim right for it. Most people without bushwhack experience almost tend to “freak out” in vegetation that is that thick. Like you stated it is under like 12 ft of snow in winter and has to survive that. Gray is the highest “trail less” peak with a herd path like that in the ADK.

To quote a very experienced hiker/ADK bushwhacker “it’s getting more grown in and you shouldn’t waste your time, just go around”. This person has gone and camped in the Ouluska pass for something to do and just bushwhacked around for a week many times. Pinpin Jr. just posted a trip report that described that area as some of the thickest in the high peaks and since Pinpin is about to complete the 46 by 46, (no not the 46 by 46 climbs each he is way past that now) but will be completing the 46 by doing all of them for 46 consecutive seasons I take the advice as a stone tablet.

 

[MichaelJ]

1) Have you been through there or are you just relating other people's experiences?

And why would that make it any less valid information? As far as I'm concerned, if a 46'er says not to take the trail because its use is discouraged and hikers are destroying the vegetation, I'm not taking it, and I'm going to pass that information on.

The trail's use is highly discouraged because alpine vegetation is being destroyed. It's not a matter of "let the experienced go, they won't trample like the beginners do" ... it's about setting an example.

 

[Neil]

Pete Hickey posted his report here last year (or was it the year before?). He and a botanist plus another person or two in official capacity went up and explored the area. The botanist found some very rare plants growing there. The trailmaster found 6 herd paths marked by cairns. 6 herd paths with cairns for dinky little Gray.

They all agreed that it would be best if no one went there. They thought of designating a single trail with paint blazes but felt that traffic would increase substantially and risk destroying the rare plant life in spite of the single designated path.

So it seems that they left it at discouraging travel directly between Gray and Marcy.

 

[dr_wu002]

Jeez, just go from Lake Tear of the Clouds. That's how TR probably did it!

-Dr. Wu

 

[Neil]

Jeez, just go from Lake Tear of the Clouds. That's how TR probably did it!

-Dr. Wu

I didn't know Todd Runtgren was a peakbagger.

 

[MattC]

I'll toss in another vote for using the Lake Tear way, simply because Lake Tear is such a special place. Plus that trail on the south side of Marcy is so great. I've only climbed Gray once, and had a lot of fun going around the long way (Lake Arnold, Feldspar, etc.), climbing Gray, Skylight and then back over Marcy. I think that's the way I'll always do those peaks.

Matt

 

[una_dogger]

I've only climbed Gray once, and had a lot of fun going around the long way (Lake Arnold, Feldspar, etc.), climbing Gray, Skylight and then back over Marcy. I think that's the way I'll always do those peaks.

Matt

That's how we did it monday, GREAT route!

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Pete Hickey posted his report here last year (or was it the year before?). He and a botanist plus another person or two in official capacity went up and explored the area. The botanist found some very rare plants growing there.

I don't wish to appear dismissive about the importance of protecting wild plants in alpine zones, but sometimes wonder if we're aren't focused on the wrong things. Watched a show last evening on one of the National Geographic channels on the melting of icecaps in Iceland and Antactica (wish NG wouldn't adopt the alarmist techniques used by FOX and others) and it's becoming more and more apparent that we're at the beginning of rapid climate change. Daily we read stories about this. For example - this morning the AP reported "NOAA affirms predictions of sea ice loss". Worrying about rare alpine plants is a bit liking worrying that Nero had too much wax on his bow. Those rare plants may soon be competing with bananas trees.

It's easier to focus on the rare plants we can see rather than the CO2 we can't, but whether you whack from Gray to Marcy or from Lake Tear isn't going to matter much in a few years. The alpine areas in subarctic climates are moving north, and those plants won't be there either.

 

[dr_wu002]

Those rare plants may soon be competing with bananas trees.

It's easier to focus on the rare plants we can see rather than the CO2 we can't, but whether you whack from Gray to Marcy or from Lake Tear isn't going to matter much in a few years. The alpine areas in subarctic climates are moving north, and those plants won't be there either.

I'm trying to picture Mt. Washington covered with banana trees and monkeys and stuff. I actually sorta like bananas and it would be interesting to just pick them while you're in an alpine zone, sorta like how I pick blueberries sometimes in alpine zones. And instead of the bears taunting me by eating all my blueberries and blackberries, the monkeys will eat all the good bananas and leave me the crappy ones

I think there are big and little pictures. Global Warming and all that crap, big picture. But this is just a 'lil website -- doesn't hurt to use it to help promote some of the smaller issues.

-Dr. Wu

 

[RTSpoons]

Across Gray to Marcy

I must agree with many of the posts regarding Gray to Marcy, e.g. herdpath.

I did this route two years ago, it was very thick, not very clear, and very hard to stay on rocks as one poster suggested.

If we are not in disagreement about the damage casued to alpine plants by foot traffic than it is best to avoid the area.

Using the regular trail up the back side of Marcy is the easiest.

Long live the alpine flower, down with those dirty boots!

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I think there are big and little pictures. Global Warming and all that crap, big picture. But this is just a 'lil website -- doesn't hurt to use it to help promote some of the smaller issues.

-Dr. Wu

Frank -

Don't know whether whether your comments or serious or for effect, but in the event you're serious -

I'm not one of those who says "Don't sweat the small stuff". Quite the contrary - am a firm believer that if we sweat the small stuff the big things take care of themselves. But we can't sweat ALL the small stuff. Knowing which small stuff to take care and which to tolerate - that's the tough part.

 

[dr_wu002]

Frank -

Don't know whether whether your comments or serious or for effect, but in the event you're serious -

I'm not one of those who says "Don't sweat the small stuff". Quite the contrary - am a firm believer that if we sweat the small stuff the big things take care of themselves. But we can't sweat ALL the small stuff. Knowing which small stuff to take care and which to tolerate - that's the tough part.

I agree and yes, I was being serious (take that for what it's worth), but I think talking about something as small as this topic raises "conservation" in general. Global Warming is an enormously large issue that most rational people are talking about these days however, I'd still list Global Warming as a category of "Conservation of the Earth" and every little bit counts.

-Dr. Wu (only my wife calls me Frank! )