New Eastern High Peaks Bear Canister Rule

[bubba]

Mmmmmmmm

Trailcloud make good dinner!!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Just a thought.. What happens now after all these years of bears being able to get food most nights from some luckless hiker.(myself included) So now everyone has bear cannisters--the bears can't get food ---where are they going next. I'm guessing they're going to the source--which is us!!! I'm expecting more encounters.

It didn'T happen years ago, when they closed the dumps, and hasn't happened in other places when action was taken to prevent bears from getting food.

Now, bears breaking into cars to get food in there... that's another story.

 

[DougPaul]

I'm guessing they're going to the source--which is us!!! I'm expecting more encounters.

Black and grizzly bears rarely treat humans as food. (You are on a polar bear's menu.)

Many encounters (particularly around camp) occur because the bears have learned to associate humans with food. If humans are consistent in keeping their food and garbage inaccessable, the association will diminish and encounters should decrease.

I have read that cannister-knowledgable bears just walk away from cannisters.

Doug

 

[AntlerPeak]

Far too late... How many of us can go off into the wilderness for an extended time with just a knife? (Or better yet, without even the knife...)

I don't think many are equipped to enter the backcountry with just a knife. Others have commented that basic understanding of what one is doing is what's required. Having proper equipment and the ability to use it is what this question is about. Those of us who fit this criteria have to suffer because of clueless trampers who take no precautions out of ignorence or bravado. It amazes me how the state has to resort to laws that place a burden upon hikers and backpackers who actually have a clue about what they are doing. How many of you camp at Marcy Dam, Johns Brook, Lake Colden, Flowed Lands etc and are surprised there are dozens of others about seeking a lean-to or flat stake of land to place a tent? Should you be surprised that with all of this intensive camping bears come to expect easy pickings? The simple evidence provided by looking around should tell any knowledgeable backpacker to expect they need to take care if they set up camp in such an area. The forcing of an expense for what amounts to a glorified mason jar is obscene. I have hiked and backpacked in the Northeast for nearly forty years and have seen a bear once and have not lost a single morsel of food. Why? because I tend to avoid camping in tent cities for one and because I take reasonable care to hang food well away from my tent/lean-to site. I am forced to accept the reality that overuse of these areas has been an ongoing problem for years now. it is not going to ease without severe use restrictions. It seems to me the requirement to purchase a commercial "vault" generates an instant high price to the product because the seller knows the user has no option and must pay the demanded price. By placing this burden upon backpackers through another "protect us from ourselves" law the state generates one more avenue where business can overcharge a captive public. By allowing use of homemade cannisters this offensive part of the regulation could be avoided. It is from what I can see a plastic jar, an eighty dollar plastic jar. I can't imagine any company setting a price of eighty dollars on a plastic jar without a law requiring you had to buy one.

 

[DougPaul]

Far too late... How many of us can go off into the wilderness for an extended time with just a knife? (Or better yet, without even the knife...)

I don't think many are equipped to enter the backcountry with just a knife.

I was responding to ADackR's complaint about "dumbing down the adventure". Given how much gear we bring with us (and that we usually follow marked trails), our adventures are already dumbed down. Complaining about a new piece of gear dumbing things down is just drawing an arbitrary line in the sand. The cries of "unfair" etc have been greeting new techniques and equipment throughout the history of recreational mountaineering.

By allowing use of homemade cannisters this offensive part of the regulation could be avoided. It is from what I can see a plastic jar, an eighty dollar plastic jar. I can't imagine any company setting a price of eighty dollars on a plastic jar without a law requiring you had to buy one.

Unfortunately many (most?) homemade cannisters would not stop bears. A number of commercial cannisters/products have failed--see http://www.sierrawildbear.gov. Rangers also face the problem of accepting or rejecting any particular cannister--requiring commercial cannisters gives them a clear criterion. It also means that truly effective cannisters will be used.

A proper food hang works most of the time. But the bears in the Sierras have shown that no hang is truly safe (they have learned to break the branches). Given enough time, the local bears are likely to learn how to get at hung food and the situation will degenerate to one similar to the one in the Sierras. If everyone uses good cannisters, hopefully the problem will be eliminated.

Yes, cannisters weigh ~2lbs. Yes, they cost money (but can also be rented). Perhaps the authorities should have provided better bear wires or bear boxes--but they chose cannisters. And cannisters can also be used anywhere, not just at official campsites.

I view cannisters as just another piece of safety gear--stuff you don't "need" until you have a problem. IMO, bears getting my food would be a problem.

BTW, the cannisters needn't cost $80--I just got one on sale for $60. And the price is likely to come down if there is sufficient demand.

Just checked archived prices at REI: The Garcia cannister first appears in 1999 at a price of $78 and drops to $70 by 2003. The BearVault appears at $80 in 2003 and stays the same. Both products have been improved during these periods. And inflation has also marched onward. I'd say the prices have already come down.

Doug

 

[trailcloud]

"you don't want to eat me I'm spoiled"

I wasn't suggesting that with this new regulation the bears would see us as food and would make dinner out of us. I'm just saying that as the former providers of food the bears might see us as still the same and start making more frequent visits to our camp spots and harass us looking for snacks
TC

 

[DougPaul]

I'm just saying that as the former providers of food the bears might see us as still the same and start making more frequent visits to our camp spots and harass us looking for snacks

If they consistently don't find any, they will most likely taper off. And if mama can't show the cubs that people leave food lying around, then the next generation will have even less reason to check us out.

Doug

 

[mudhook51]

Does anyone one know where to rent a cannister south of the high peaks? Coming in by rts 28 or 30, the northway, or even thru Utica area.

 

[werdigo49]

Don't forget, guys... it says "commercially made" or something like that. Sounds as if do-it-yourself PVC pipe wouldn't make it.

I picked one up at an REI sale about a year ago (Garcia 812 "Backpacker's Cache") for $54.99.

--W49

 

[Bluethroatedone]

silly question

Okay,

So reading this thread makes me think I should buy one of these...but the question is where do you put...say you set up camp in the Great Gulf, do you bushwack 20 yards from your tent and put the thing on the ground and hope you find it the next day, do you put it in a tree or do you just leave it in your pack outside?

 

[imarchant]

Does anyone one know where to rent a cannister south of the high peaks? Coming in by rts 28 or 30, the northway, or even thru Utica area.

Check this site for Canister rental locations

 

[lumberzac]

Okay,

So reading this thread makes me think I should buy one of these...but the question is where do you put...say you set up camp in the Great Gulf, do you bushwack 20 yards from your tent and put the thing on the ground and hope you find it the next day, do you put it in a tree or do you just leave it in your pack outside?

At least 100’ away from camp on the ground. It’s best to put it in a small depression to help prevent it form rolling away. Keep the canister away from ledges/cliffs and water where it might float away.

 

[skiguy]

At least 100’ away from camp on the ground. It’s best to put it in a small depression to help prevent it form rolling away. Keep the canister away from ledges/cliffs and water where it might float away.

Has anyone had any encounters with Bears tampering or attempting to open the vault. Seems to me that the vault could be an invitation for a game of Soccer for Bears. Seems as though placement overnight is critical if you want to find the thing the next morning without a Bear having messed with it. What about hanging it? Any more insight here would be appreciated on does and donots.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

What about hanging it?

Don't. Bears are as much visual in finding food as they are using their nose. They go for something hanging. Hang (poorly) a bag of rocks around Lake Colden, and watch the bears take it down.

Experience (out west) has shown that it is best to leave it on the ground. Bears learn that they cannot get food from it, will leave it alone.

 

[skiguy]

Thanx Pete...that certainly makes sense.Hopefully the Bears in the Daks will be conditioned to this whole thing as quick as possible.

 

[Smitty]

The latest 411 from a ranger.

I was in the Calamity Brook area on the 4th, acquiring Cliff and Redfield for my collection. I ran into a park ranger, and asked him about the canister regulations. He said that it would become required "within the next 2 weeks". He further explained that anyone found camping in the area without one during the remainder of this season would be lent one to use while they are here. He said that anyone found without one next season will be subject to a $250 fine. Sounds like a bit of a grace period, but I wonder how many of these units they will have available to use out there. He also said they should not be hung at all and should be placed 1 or 2 hundred feet away from the tent/shelter, on the ground. I recently purchased one from Campmor , but haven't had occasion to use it yet, but with more and more areas requiring them , both in the east and west, it's time .

 

[Pete_Hickey]

.... anyone found camping in the area without one during the remainder of this season would be lent one to use while they are here.... .

I really hope that people won't abuse this grace period. IE, if you KNOW about the rule, bring a canister. Don't go there expecting the DEC will supply you with one. The grace period is inteneded for those who do not know about the rule.

 

[maineguy]

We camped at Calamity Lean-to's in June and used a cannister. Placed it on the ground about 30 feet from the lean-to. Wasn't touched either night we were there, although we heard bear activity in the vicinity of hanging bags at the next lean-to.

I would imagine that bears will just ignore them at first, until they realize that they contain food, then will try to open them. Should be interesting