New York vs New Hampshire Bears

[Bobcat]

Why do bears seem to be so much more of a problem in New York than New Hampshire for the popular high use areas?

I ask this question based upon my experience with VFTT. I've never actually camped in NH. I am well aware of the bear experience in the high-use High Peaks region of New York and I've traveled, but not camped, throughout NH and there seem to be very similar high-use areas. I'm not trying to start a "canister" thread for people to repeat what most of us already know about pending NY High Peaks canister regulations and their value. I'd like to know if there is some other influence, i.e. hunting, topgraphy, weather, perception, or ???, that can account for what seems to be a very different experience with bears between the two regions.

 

[DougPaul]

Why do bears seem to be so much more of a problem in New York than New Hampshire for the popular high use areas?

Bears are intelligent curious animals that explore to find food. If enough humans are careless in protecting their food, bears will eventually find it and learn from the experience. Through trial and error they will continue to learn and mothers will pass their knowledge on to their offspring.

So presumably, enough people in the DAKs were sufficiently careless that the bears learned how to get the human food. And now that the bears learned, the people will have to be extra careful long enough for the knowledge to be lost. (A bear can live up to 30 years...) Hopefully people in the Whites will be careful enough to prevent a similar situation from developing.

Recent story on the Boston news---someone in Ashburnham MA (north-central MA) watched a bear raid his bird feeder several days in a row. He put some hot peppers in the feed to chase the bear away. It worked! (Just for the record, leaving bird seed, pet food, or garbage out in bear country is a no-no. One of the ways in which humans set themselves up for bear problems.)

Doug

 

[Artex]

Interesting Question

I'd be willing to bet the heavy use of the high peaks region in the Dacks, particulary around Marcy Dam and Lake Colden, has led to more bear problems there. I can't think of a true equivalent as far as heavy use areas in the Whites. I'd hypothesize that's due to more regulated campsites and huts in the WMNF, which might be utilized by many folks of lesser experience who may not know how to hang a bear bag properly (a big problem that I've seen first hand several times in my limited experience in the Dacks). Also, perhaps more people opt for dayhikes in the Whites since most of the peaks are accessible that way.

Just a few of my muses, but what the heck do I know...

 

[CJK]

I would have to agree with the last statement, after having spent lots of time in the Marcy Dam area I have begun hiking much more in the whites, and definately there is no area in the whites that compares with such a high use area. More people = more food, why NY state never installed bear poles or other such devices I shall never know, but now they have a serious problem on their hands.

 

[Warren]

This has been asked in one or several of the recent bear threads. Over use is frequently pointed to. The closing (or covering?) of the local dumps has also been mentioned. Probably a combination of both and perhaps other factors.

 

[Waumbek]

This has been asked in one or several of the recent bear threads. Over use is frequently pointed to. The closing (or covering?) of the local dumps has also been mentioned. Probably a combination of both and perhaps other factors.

Yes, this must be a multi-factored problem although there is no equivalent in the Whites to the Marcy Dam area in terms of camper density. It is difficult to find reliable statistics but it looks as if virtually all of NY State's 5,000-6,000 bears live in the ADKs with small concentrations in the Catskills and Allegany region. NH has an overall estimated bear population of 4,500 this year. The highest concentration is in my county, Grafton, which has much land in the WMNF, but few actual campsites and no high density ones. It may be that bears are more dispersed in WMNF in terms of "attractive nuisances." Cause and effect are hard to separate out. In any event DEC has begun to study the problem intensively.

 

[lumberzac]

More people = more food, why NY state never installed bear poles or other such devices I shall never know, but now they have a serious problem on their hands.

They did install cable systems (I'm not sure when they were first put in) that have pretty much failed. The reason other devices, such as bear poles, were not install probably has more to do with politics and economics (DEC is way under funded) than anything else.

 

[NewHampshire]

Waumbek makes some very good points. It could also be due to differences in management. A bear only goes looking for food if there is none available. I dont know what the Beech tree/nut/blueberry/raspberry crop is like in the ADKs, but up in norhtern NH there is quite a bite of mast and forage that keeps the bears satisfied for the most part (except for probably the biggest problem time of the year, spring, when forage and mast is low and the bears attack bird feeders for quick food and energy.) Add to that Wambeks already mentioned dispertion.....but again, I cant say for sure since I dont know the current state of the ADKs land management.
Brian

 

[Puma concolor]

Much of the bear problem in both the Lake Placid area (Adirondacks) and Hunter-Tannersville (Catskills) is a direct result of somewhat major landfills that were capped. The dumps drew them to these areas and when they were closed, they had to go looking in the neighborhoods. The bears around Hunter-T'ville are like nothing I've ever seen. Very aggressive as black bears go and some are not terribly affected by the presence of humans.

 

[Mike P.]

I don't here much on the boards about ADK residents see bears in their yards but I suspect that is because we don't have ADK residents, the park is so large or they are so common that they are not news worthy. While not news worthy, we do have WMNF residents.

Brutus had made a good living on camper food until he got too himself dead (okay he had help - I believe)

There are really no easy backpacking destinations in the Whites that hold the number of campers as the Marcy Dam area. Car campers in NH still get away with putting food into cars, in time perhaps east coast bears will figure their way into cars like they have done around Whitney Portal.

Marcy Dam is perfect place for aspiring car campers to try backpacking. great location a little over two miles to a water source with great view & almost no elevation gain. (it's basically a bumpy equivalent to Franconia Falls but with a more open view & wading for small kids where you don't worry about current) I suspect when camping was allowed in area of Franconia Falls it's was popular, then again back then bear hunting was more popular too...

 

[dougb]

I also think the problem in the 'daks is localized to areas with heavy use. The high peaks region is accessable from a few routes. There's a book out called "Adirondack Atlas" which contains a map showing reported bear problems. The peak area goes from the Loj, to Marcy Dam, and then to Colden. Of 300 incidents reported in the Adirondaks, 135 were in that corridor. Since that's the area where the uninitiated are most likely to go, the bears in that locale learn about backpacks. I'm sure there are a few other similar areas.

Incidentally, if you like maps, I highly recommend Adirondack Atlas - and it's only about $15 on amazon.com...

 

[rup]

Was Brutus the resident bear of the Jigger Johnson / Pasaconway campground fsame off the Kancamawgus Hwy in the '80s?? If so, I believe I met him face-to-face one night.