NOLS Experiences

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mafogle

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I'm considering sending my teenage daughter on one of the NOLS wilderness backpacking trips this summer, and wanted to ask the VFTT members if they would share their experiences with NOLS.

I know about NOLS by reputation, which is very good. What I'd like to know is:

Does the current organization deserve that reputation?

Do they really deliver on the leadership training part of their Outdoor Leadership School?

How capable are the staff?

What about the gear? They recommend buying/renting a lot of gear from them. While they say you can bring your own gear, they reserve the right to reject items that don't meet their standards. Are they reasonable on their assessment of student supplied gear?

Thanks in advance.

Martin
 
Outdoor Schools

My son received a college credit in the sciences for participating in a NOLS course that took him to Kenya. He had a great experience and it was not your typical "travel agency tour". My son bushwacked through jungles following trails made by elephants, lived with Masi (sp???) in their huts, and spent days on fishing sailcraft with native people who were Muslim. I cannot vouch for his "equipment list", but in spite of his his mother's frustration, he packed the day before he left, buying socks on the way to the airport. Believe me he did not have any high-tech gear. My son loves being outdoors, the classroom his least favorite place to be. (He is presently a ski coach in the Sierras.) In an Outward Bound course in Colorado (Sangre de Cristo Mts.), his group lost their food to bears, spent no time on established trails, made serious mileage in rugged terrain.
My nephew on a NOLS trip to Patagonia, although wearing plastic boots, broke his foot when a boulder rolled on it. Sometimes he had to crawl, other times his buddies carried him, but in a couple of days he made it to a small village and a road. Before his accident, he spent days in a kayak, dried his wet clothes in his sleeping bag at night. These are rugged programs, and the kids learn to get along in the out-of-doors. (BTW, A year later he was co-captain of his college soccer team)
My daughter graduated from UVM, works with troubled teens, and is presently enrolled in a Outward Bound Leadership program in North Carolina for six weeks. Quoting from the OB "Clothing and Gear" page:
"Even the most experienced OB insturctors have different ideas on what will best suit their needs while living in the wilderness. You will likely develop your own preferences by the end of your course. Below is a list, developed from many years of experience, of what we recommend you bring."
The list did not look any different from a list publihed by AMC for winter use.
My daughter has plenty of wilderness living experience including backpacking with a Dad who has to hike with lightweight gear! She knows about Pepsi Can stoves, won't use a pack without a hip-belt, but taught me to use a tarp rather than a tent. No, one does not need to go to exotic places or far from home to learn outdoors skills, but NOLS and Outward Bound are challenging and well worth it.
When a teacher, I participated in an Outward Bound course canoeing in the Boundary Waters of Minnesota and Canada, a program specifically designed for teachers. In the just first hour of being there, I knew I was not just on a vacation for tourists in boats.
In short, send your daughter.
As for gear, if your daufghter has used her gear before in the outdoors, I am sure it will be acceptable. Footwear is key, however. Go with what fits and what is broken in. For example, my son in Colorado wore Montrial Morraines which are very heavy, thick leather, which were great in the jagged shale and rough rock. My daughter, on the otherhand was told not to show up in anything but leather in a semester she spent in the CO Rockies. The program leaders (not OB or NOLS) were not pleased when she showed up in boots with nylon, but she has very hard feet to fit, and those boots were what fit, so she wore them without incident and blister free.
Programs have those equipment threats you mention to save themselves from participants who show up with blue jeans, cotton shirts, and hair dryers. From personal experience, I know OB has good equipment to rent.
 
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Thanks for the feedback, E. Shlimmer, Jonatha, rambler.

I'm definitely concerned about safety and responsible leadership - particularly "youth protection" issues, and will bring them up directly with NOLS. I'm also concerned about the attitude of instructors. Some outdoor programs have a reputation for dealing with troubled kids, in an abusive boot camp style, which has led to a couple of deaths by heatstroke.

Now let me say that my daughter is not a "troubled kid" nor is NOLS' reputation as one of "those" places.

My daughter is very motivated and independent, but she's never been particularly interested in backpacking. Her older brother and I have done quite a bit of backpacking with scouts, and now that he's in college I need a new partner. So, I'm pleased that she's expressed an interest in the NOLS class, and hope that the experience will inspire her - but am a bit worried that a bad experience might turn her off from backpacking altogether.

Improperly sized poorly fitting gear can make for a bad experience too. When we looked at the NOLS recommended gear list I was surprised to see a massive 6300 to 7000 cu. in. pack, and the recommendation that she buy boots there, heavy, stiff, all leather boots :eek: !

I'd like to get her a pack and boots that fit and take a few hikes this spring to get everything adjusted and broken in.

Now where to find a 6300 to 7000 cu. in. pack for a 5'-7" teen age girl?

-Martin
 
Hopefully i can help - I'm a NOLS Alumni Rep. I was a student on a NOLS course in the summer of 2002, and it was a truly amazing experience. I was on their Wind River Wilderness expedition, and backpacked and rock climbed for 30 days in Wyoming's Wind River Range.

All NOLS staff are very capable and highly qualified. I've looked into what it takes to be a NOLS Instructor, as i've considered doing it myself, and you have have a pretty impressive resume and skill inventory before even being put through a rigorous Instructor Course. All instructors have a minimum of Wilderness First Responder, so while there will always be inherent risks in the sort of activities NOLS does, the instructors are more than capable in dealing with them in a professional and safe manner. And you're right - NOLS is not the place for sending "trouble kids." Thats not their purpose. People have different reasons for going on a NOLS course, dealing with personal issues/substance abuse/whatever is not what NOLS is for. However, if you're daughter is interested in developing her leadership and outdoor skills, NOLS definitely delivers.

As far as the gear goes, the only major purchase I would recommend that you make before the course are boots, and make sure its a boot thats on their recommendation list. You can buy a pack if you want, but NOLS has a pack that's specifically made for them by Lowe Alpine, to their specifications, and is fully adjustable and fits most body sizes. 6300 - 7000 might seem large, but mine was packed to the brim almost every day. If you're looking for a pack, any decent outdoor gear store should have them. I work at Climb High myself, we carry two packs in that range. Regardless, NOLS doesn't reccommend it, but you daughter could show up naked and they could outfit her head to toe.

As far as the previous comment made about the gear being "overburdening," i strongly disagree. In fact, i am thoroughly confused by Schlimmer's post. Our packs were not external frame, boots were not quite in the 5 pound range, and yes we ate bread and had a spice kit, but i'm glad we did. NOLS doesn't reccommend or issue any gear that is unreasonably unnecessary or heavy. I am speaking from personal experince of course, but we used eveything we brought and did not need anything we didn't. To say that a NOLS course is more about the gear and less about the experience is nonsense.

NOLS has a great reputation, and they abolutely deserve it. NOLS isn't for everyone, but if you're daughter wants to do this, and you can afford it, don't pass this opportunity up. It's a challenge and an amazing experience. But don't wait too long, i'm sure alot of their course for this summer are already filled.
 
I've never participated in NOLS or Outward Bound. However, I've known a lot of people over the last 35 years who have done either or both, including a niece who did a whitewater NOLS course two summers ago and another niece who did an Outward Bound course in the BWCA last year. None of them had anything but accolades for their experiences. Lots of them went on to careers in environmental education and/or outdoor experiential education; some of the others are doomed to be SAR responders for the rest of their lives.

From what I've seen, the biggest hazard for a parent to consider (other than the very steep prices) is the very serious risk that your kid will end up motivated to spend his/her life in the outdoors, helping others enjoy the experience. There are far worse things, IMO, including the currently fashionable focus in this country on all things commercial.
 
sardog1 said:
\ None of them had anything but accolades for their experiences. .
I cannot say enough about my Outward Bound experience.I work with an anethesia resident who did a NOLS course and she has nothing but praise for it.
An OB alumni said something to the effect that her pack was heavy but the end result was "it gave her a spine!"
I agree. I think of my life as before OB and after OB. Not a day goes by that I do not reflect on my course and the lessons learned there.
I am deeply grateful to those people.
 
I have taken the NOLS Outdoor Educator course and I can recommend the NOLS courses for people who are fairly new to the sport. If you are already comfortable with hiking/backpacking (with say 10 years experience) then you will probably find most of it a waste of time.

Of course with any class, the instructors and the participants will make or brake the course. I found the NOLS instructors in my course good. They obviously new their stuff and tried to have fun as well.

I showed up with all my gear and nearly all of it was acceptable. When there were items that did not work, the instructor explained what was the criteria for acceptance. ie. Can you take those wind pants off over your boots? Even when he did not like something that I had, I explained why I liked it and found it to work and he said it was okay ... but I had lots of experience and my gear was proven. Also their rental costs were reasonable and they recommended some rental stuff so I would not trash my own. In the end I bought some gear I used at very discounted prices.

Yes, their packweights are heavy and that's probably why they recommend the heavy leather boots. This is not an ultralight backpacking course. But consider that we only did 2-5 miles per day, (the part I found incredibly boring) then a heavy pack was not an issue. I think that one point is how do you work as a team to divide up an onerouse load. The history of the org was to prepare people to lead outdoor expeditions and that usually means big loads. That said, my load rarely exceeded 60lbs and I lugged more weight than some others.

JHS
 
Wow, the testimonials sound great, no question. It must be quite a character-building experience.

I just have to ask, though, what could one possbly bring on a summer backpacking trip that would add up to 60 or 70 pounds?
 
From Lander, Wyoming

I'm NOLS admission and marketing director. It looks like you all are hashing out the ups and downs of NOLS and you sure don't need a marketing guy polluting the conversation.

I did want to let folks know that the NOLS recycled vegetable oil (RVO) powered bus is traveling around your area for the next few weeks. The schedule is online at: http://www.nols.edu/bus/bus_stops.shtml

If you would like to talk with some NOLS grads, boulder on the side of the bus or learn about alternative energy stop by.

If I can answer any questions about NOLS, let me know.
 
Tramper Al said:
Wow, the testimonials sound great, no question. It must be quite a character-building experience.

I just have to ask, though, what could one possbly bring on a summer backpacking trip that would add up to 60 or 70 pounds?

Compared to my nornal pack weight of 25 pounds for a weekend.

Add, more food and water as mentioned.
Plus, Climbing gear and mountaineering gear. ie. ropes harnesses protection plactic boots, crampons etc.
More winter clothes and extra clothes for the colder weather and longer duration.
For me, a book and notebook as this was a learning experience.

Even keeping it light, it adds up.

JHS
 
NOLS mom

MAFOGLE Your concerns about your daughter are all legitimate...I just want to tell of another NOLS graduate experience to maybe alleviate the anxiety a little...

On Sept.19, 2001, my husband & I took our son to Logan Airport for a flight to South America to meet with other NOLS participants for a semester long program in Patagonia, Chile. This was only 8 days post 9/11 events and immediately after U.S. air travel bans had been lifted. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do...harder than giving birth to him...the airport was full of military with automatic weaponry...the world political situation was tremulous. Our only consolation was that we were sending him off to a location virtually untouched by current events and that both his and our faith in the integrity of the NOLS program would guarantee him at least safe harbor in any eventual storm. Possibly even better harbor than our own immediate future in the U.S. during that week in September.

We were confident in our son's skills...he was an Eagle Scout, he was (and still is) at an optimum physical fitness and after a year already finished in an Asscociates Degree program, ready for a bigger challenge that focused on leadership and survival in wilderness enviroment...a necessary step for this young man, my child, in his maturing process...(oh...if I didn't just have to say good-bye!).

Travis left us that day and commenced to spend 75 days in the harsh Patagonia environment, 35 days in a sea kayak negotiating the archipelago of rivers and islands there; then another 35 days negotiating 130 miles of mountains, glaciers and valleys...all with out a single phone call or email to his Dad or myself....ARRRRHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

What he learned....reading the weather and uncharted waters of those areas to safely navigate an afternoon landing in a sheltered spot in a true wilderness...how to concoct decent meals for a group of 14 on this trek from bags of flour, rice, dried veg & protien for 75 days....how to sanely deal with personalities exposed to this kind of challenge for 75 days...how to respect the different needs for women stuck in a kayak for 10 hours at a time and their need to eliminate or deal with a monthly issue...the songs and tales of a Masai warrior, one of the trip instructors for the backpacking section...the heritage of Patagonia, the Spanish influence, the agriculture of herd animals...he learned to like mate (matay), and the appreciationof its tradition...he found lifelong friendships, he was fairly critiqued by both native NOLS leaders and participating foreign ones, he received college credit for Leave No Trace, Wilderness Leadership and Cultural topics...he used his High School Spanish for its basic communicating powers...he learned to be alone, in a self imposed retreat at the end of the semester, 3 days with only water, building his own shelter, (his location, of course, well noted and monitored by his instructors) and only time to contemplate his past, present and future...he learned mostly about HIMSELF.

What I learned.... That despite my motherly fears and angst, the opportunity provided by NOLS gave my son the confidence to move forward into the world of adult, the global world of enviromental awareness and activism and most important, the world of personal relationships...that friendly compromise one develops with the "odorous" person from the other side of the world whom you've shared a tent, some meals, a water bottle, and lots of memories of a lifetime's adventure together at the "End of the Earth". If only we all might share a tent someday and learn to get along...I wax poetical...sorry...

Do I believe in the virtues NOLS promises to instill? Yes. Would I send him again? Of course. Would he send himself again? In a heartbeat...(he's saving to someday do the Instructor's course...after a Bachelors's Degree in Sustainable Forestry is achieved). Would I send myself to NOLS for the "over the hill" age group offerings? Yes, yes, yes...but first we have to fulfill the parental financial part of the college degree obligations.

I encourage you to see the NOLS opportunity as not just another "outdoor" adventure, but rather as a premier chance for any young person (or old one for that matter) to participate in a world renowned program of Leadership...the courses may take place in "natural" classrooms, but the lessons learned transcend walls, mountains, rivers and international borders.

I am not a spokesperson for NOLS or any other outdoor education program...I am a mother and I am proud to be a spokesperson for my son...thanks for the opportunity to brag. Peace and Go Wild, susan
 
Thank-you one and all

Thank-you all for the feed back on the NOLS experience.

I think what we'll do is get my daughter boots and a pack. We'll get a pair of the recommended boots. Then take a couple of practice trips along the AT in PA to break them in. But the pack will stay at home, and she can rent one of the NOLS packs.

For those who may be interested the NOLS course description and recommended equipment list are at:
http://www.nols.edu/courses/pdf/rockymtn/adr_cd.pdf
http://www.nols.edu/courses/pdf/rockymtn/adr_el.pdf

Thanks again,

-Martin
 
mafogle said:
. Then take a couple of practice trips along the AT in PA to break them in. But the pack will stay at home, and she can rent one of the NOLS packs.
A good idea as the pack needed for NOLS will probably be larger than the pack you would want if most of your own backpack trips turn put to be weekend or upto 5 day trips. No sense getting a big pack that will be overly large later on. Especially if you adopt lightweight practices.
 
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