Ooh, that looks painful. Can you walk on it?

[Tim Seaver]

FWIW, an ice axe is an excellent splint for a broken ankle, with the adze under the heel and the pick lashed to the forefoot.

 

[forestgnome]

I'd have a problem with this, as you may be creating a second victim by your actions. Never give away what you need to stay safe, warm, and well-fed.

-dave-

That's a good point, and I know that rescuers sometimes become victims that also need to be rescued. So, instead, I would keep my bag and enough food in case I also got injured on the way out for help.

In this case, I would know that the trails to Lincoln Woods were broken out because that's the way I would have gotten to Bond Cliff. I never hike there from Zealand once Zealand Road is closed. I also don't hike that far if it's snowing, or if snow is forecast. Only on bluebird days would I be in that far. So, on packed trails I could make it to Lincoln Woods in about 2.5 hours.

 

[Jazzbo]

Cell phones & splint materials

In response to comments about cell phone batteries dieing on the trail, I've learned from experience if I leave my cell phone on while on the trail in the Whites, apparantly my cell phone continually searches for signals and batteries drain prematurely so I now turn the cell phone off before hitting the trail. Since I never use it, the batteries are good as gold when I get back to car and call home etc etc. This also ensures the cell would have power if needed for emergencies. I've also noted cell coverage is best at higher elevations when there is line of sight to tower outside the wilderness area. So make your calls before descending.

I generally carry a z-rest pad for emergencies. It gets victims off ground or can be used very well for splint materials. The inflatable thermorest fanny pad also makes a great splint and can also get victims off the ground although not as spacious as the full length z-rest.

 

[spider solo]

Depending on the time of day and if the person can move. If it is late in the afternoon , in the winter I would call 2 0clock late, I would stay put and put all my energies into making making shelter and a fire. It would be High impact stuff not leave no trace stuff.
Big smokey fire during day light...make the shelter right in the middle of the trail etc..

If the person could move I would make a crutch/ splint arrangement. I would try retracing our steps out the same way we came in...the trail would still be broken out (hopefully) and you would have a better idea as you retraced how much progress you are making.. I would not head for trails that I hope to find broken...I might not ever find them.
In such cold weather I would try to keep us moving even if it was in slow motion. Once the decision was to call it a day it would take huge amount of work to make a shelter and fire. Stopping for the day would need to be early as that would chew up a huge amount of time and energy.

If I left a person, in such cold weather, to go find help I would definately say my good-byes... I would not really expect to see the person alive again.
I'm more of a stay with the victim at all times kind of guy.

Though I often travell by myself I sometimes hike with one of two people I know...both rock climbers... ice climbers.
It might just be a limited viewpoint but neither of them carry any more than the absolute minimum. I mean not even an extra pair of socks..nothing.
Sure they can cover some ground in a hurry, but more along the lines of ...if your hurt your screwed.

oh, of course, if I had cell reception I would call for help but I wouldn't be counting on the phone.
One item that I have realized I should carry is a flat piece of tin foil that can be reshaped into a bowl for melting drinking water...

 

[percious]

I often use my cell phone for a splint.

My mom walked down from algonquin with a broken leg last summer. 3.5 miles to the loj.

Here is a thread with her first-person analysis.
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=4955

I havn't decided whether or not drugs are a good thing to give the person. I think they would complicate things more than anything, and when you get to Hospital, they want to know what the last thing you took was. If you have drugs in your system, it might change what they can offer you.

-percious

 

[Andrew]

Great responses, definitely be the first responder and reduce the various elements of risk to bring the situation under control as much as possible. Good advice to get below treeline but not far from the trail...if at all. It is good to give rescuers a heads up even if you feel you have the situation under control, a helpful rescuer may already be near-by, potential rescuers can make some deciscions like "I'll have lunch now instead of skipping it.", or "I might as well get to seeing if those new crampons actually fit.", or not send that employee home early. If the only option for notification is from you leaving the victim alone would depend on balancing risk factors.
You would be surprised how often it is reasonable to ambulate a severe sprain or moderate fracture with good splinting, I have seen dozen's of such cases including myself. A compound fracture would probably be best left for littering. With those that can self ambulate at all, any reasonable effort to help them move any distance towards the ultimate goal of definitive care is helpful and may be necessary anyways.
I too carry a small saw and see it as an indespensible rescue tool. You often say to yourself things like "I could make a splint with branches, or a drag litter with poles, or make a fire...", but those Spruce and Fir branches and poles are awful hard to get to bend to your will.
Additionally...Be sure when you contact authorities exactly what your point is with contacting them. Be ready to communicate the most important points quickly and clearly, as you may not be able to depend on your connection. An informative early report such as "I have provided an excellent splint with the injury fully immobilized, the patient is fully warmed and stable with ample food and water and bivy ability. We plan to descend the such and such to somewhere. We are making progress descending by such method at a moderate or extremely slow and painful rate. We expect not to need any help but wanted you to be aware, (or) we are making ok progress but may eventually or most likely need help, (or of course) we are able to butt slide down the steepest exposed areas and will continue but we'll need help to carry out the rest of the way for sure."

 

[dvbl]

...Did this happen to you ????

sli74

No. Fortunately this hasn't happened to me. Your answer was exactly the type of answer I was looking for. You told me what you would do based on what you would be carrying. Of all the people who hike to Bondcliff (or any other remote peak) in winter, some go ultralight, some go prepared for an unplanned night out, and some go prepared for a minor armageddon (sp?). This thread is not to debate ultralight vs prepared-for-anything, and thankfully it hasn't gone there. I was simply interested in what people usually have in their packs (and their brains) that would help them in this situation.

Thanks for the detailed answer.

 

[dvbl]

...If you are asking these questions you may be a good candidate for WFA training.

-percious

Yup. But then again, who isn't?

 

[McRat]

I guess it depends on if the extent of the injury and if the person can bear any weight on it. My only similar experience was during an aborted 3-day Presi traverse. We were fortunate to have decent weather, as I'm not sure I could move this person very far.

Getting the victim into warm gear and below treeline (if possible) would be a top priority.

I tend to overpack in winter and usually have a pad, sleeping bag, bivy, and enough layers in case anyone (including me) needs to stay put and wait for while. I prefer hiking in groups of 3-4 in winter, as someone can stay with the victim while another can get help.

While I usually carry a cellphone, I can't rely on it. I never seem to get a signal in the Whites... except when work is calling me.

 

[Mike P.]

Splints, exposure & sleds would figure into any evaluation. If wearing plastic boots, your break may more likely be a tib/fib fracture though & not an ankle.

Did see someone who thought they had a break above their plastic boot descending Lion's head 11/2005, very slowly of course.

 

[SherpaKroto]

How eerie is the timing of this thread considering Doug Paul's BC ski accident?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

How eerie is the timing of this thread considering Doug Paul's BC ski accident?

I resisted posting anything about it in this thread to keep Doug-related stuff in the other thread.

Clearly, he couldn't walk on it. His quote went something like "I raised my leg and the knee went up but the foot stayed put."

Tim

 

[carole]

I posted this a while back but it is a reminder to think about. I hope I don't have to frisk someone in the wild but if I have to I hope they have some good emergency info on them.

 

[Pucknuts61]

Is shooting them and finding a new hiking buddy an option?

 

[Mike P.]

While the timing with Doug Paul is coincidental, breaking a femur Vs. anything down around the ankle are two very different injuries. You'd have to really shatter the lower leg badly (badly in case "Shatter" did not give you a gruesome enough picture) to be in the same state.

 

[NewHampshire]

Is shooting them and finding a new hiking buddy an option?

What are you trying to say Bill?

You know they have a saying in the military: "If you die first we are splitting your gear".......so I call dibs on the new Digital Video Recorder!

Brian

 

[yonkers]

if you have to walk out on a lower leg injury, your going to wish you packed your leftover narcotic painkillers.

 

[SherpaKroto]

While the timing with Doug Paul is coincidental, breaking a femur Vs. anything down around the ankle are two very different injuries. You'd have to really shatter the lower leg badly (badly in case "Shatter" did not give you a gruesome enough picture) to be in the same state.

Yes, I know that, but I was thinking more from the "being prepared" standpoint, something that Doug clearly was.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I'm sure Doug will elaborate on this, but despite being well-prepared, he told me he was unable to get his pack off to get inside. Something about the way he landed, and not being able to release the sternum strap. He told me a lot of stuff, and I might not have this exactly right, but for the sake of discussion, let's assume it is true. When he gets to this note (if not before) I'm sure we'll hear the exact details.

If you are truly trapped it doesn't sound good. Perhaps he hadn't tried long or hard enough to free himself prior to Andy's arrival. I've heard of people (a person?) performing self-amputations to free themselves, but that would require access to something sharp, of course.

Tim

 

[Mike P.]

How are you doing Paul, back at work I see. I'm not about to even think I can tell you anything about injuries.

Outside of a spinal injury in other than the tailbone area, the Femur may be the worst possible bone to break so I can see how he wasn't goping to move around much to try & get his pack off.