Pemi-loop starting Saturday evening 3/1

[Steve-o]

Great job gang!
There is a big difference between crazy and stupid.
You could, give it another shot this weekend.
I have a ton of leftover meatballs.

 

[una_dogger]

Very nice statement!

I also enjoy reading reports of the 'we didn't summit' as much as (if not more than) 'we made it'.

Very nice, indeed, Mats.

Carole, I agree with you!

I'm currently reading "No Shortcuts to the Top" by Ed Viesturs; and I am so utterly impressed by his humility (and his strength, perserverence, and enthusiasm just to name a few more qualities). On turning back from a summit, he wrote that he felt his summit of K2 was undeserved, because in his mind, the group should have turned back. Takes alot of self awareness to assert such a statement. Lots of good wisdom there.

 

[wgreene]

respect

The other members of the team were all very well prepared and thinking ahead all of the time. The safety and well being of the group was first priority. Mats pulled me up when I lost my footing and nudged me on course when my step was faltering. Jason turned back when I fell behind. They helped carry my gear. They all were communicating and all were committed to staying together. Fortunately my body shouted louder at me than my ego and I realized that hike was not for me and that everyone was probably better off if I was sleeping soundly in the car (quite comfortably I might add). The other members of the team were all very strong and were nowhere near tapping their reserves when I turned back. I was so surprised when they returned to the car I dreamed that I was being attacked by police, then a bear, then space aliens, then finally opened my eyes and saw Mats, Lei, Courtney, and Jason tapping at the windows smiling and in good spirits. Accidents can happen anywhere anytime and weather is not an exact science. For periods the stars were clearly visible and the temperature felt relatively warm. No one was going out if the storm hadn't broken and no one was assuming that the weather above tree line was not going to be horrendous. There was respect for the elements and for the cohesion of a team out in the elements. As for negligence, I can assure you all that Mats, Lei, Courtney, and Jason were not reckless in any way, to say nothing for the precautions and assessments constantly being calculated and updated as the group moved forward and upward.

 

[stu]

Mats - glad to hear you made use of the broken-out Osseo Trail! It was definitely slow going for us that day.
Stu

 

[Mats Roing]

Mats - glad to hear you made use of the broken-out Osseo Trail! It was definitely slow going for us that day.
Stu

Jason and I were discussing how many beers we owed you

You made us really nervous though when not answering initially when we asked if you guys were OK in those half burried bivies

Did you turn back or continued the next day?

 

[Dave Bear]

This has turned into a very interesting and enlightening thread and kudos to all that have posted about this trip and being responsible. Mats you and your group are held in high esteem for how you do your hikes and how you post before and after. Fun, with witty subtle jokes yet responsible. Considering the level you folks are at and the things you wish to achieve wouldn't you think it near time to get into a higher level of communication. Possibly something such as a satelite phone or as was discussed by DougPaul in another thread a license and Ham radios. Not as a ball and chain during your experience but as a hiking tool. That way someone not on the hike could know your status and location from time to time and keep you posted of changing weather conditions or reports. Watch the movie "Everest" again and picture it without base camps and communication. This should also be part of training exercises for more serious endeavors. Best intentions aside, when you head out on over thirty miles of trail if something unfortunate were to happen you leave many square miles for SAR to cover and alot more teams whose health and safety would be at risk. I don't think the question should be whether you would be charged but what affect it will have on others and how the situation could be improved. Nice TRs and great posts! You are as good when your posting serious as when your having fun Mats!

 

[Mats Roing]

Sounds like a great mini-epic kind of night! Heading into the teeth of less than favorable conditions (well equipped, of course) is vital training, IMO, for bigger mountains like Denali where regardless of the forecast, you may get caught in some serious conditions very quickly.

Those who have willingly experienced high winds, extreme cold, and whiteouts under semi-controlled conditions are much better equipped psychologically to handle severe weather and cold related "emergencies" when they do arise. Good stuff!

Tim's eloquent statement above also seems to be shared by a certain Mr. Bonatti.

Just wanted to quote a couple of sentences from the "The Mountains of My Life" where Walter Bonatti talks about his preparations for the first winter ascents of the three north faces of Lavaredo (one of them had actually been done in winter before) :

"My training in preparation for this exploit was carried out in a quite unusual way. Every Saturday evening, without fail, I went with a friend to the foot of some difficult face in the Grigna to climb it the next day at dawn after an icy bivouac.
In my opinion there could be no better way to measure oneself against the cold and the difficulties posed by the mountains, and to check one's own limits while still staying within the bounds of safety. To put oourselves to the test, during each succeeding bivouac we reduced our equipment little by little and chose places that were more and more uncomfortable and exposed to bad weather. Naturally, with thermometer at hand, we checked the temperature carefully and recorded all our reactions to cold. In the end, without exposing ourselves to excessive dangers, we gathered invaluable experience."

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Keep in mind, Mats, that the word "train" doesn't appear in this thread until you were back. Had it been stated up front that this was "training for Leaf's trip to Denali" then I think presumptions on the reader's part would have been very different.

Also keep in mind that you have a reputation for doing these outlandishly long trips about what most mere mortals here can only dream.

Tim

 

[una_dogger]

I am fairly certain that I was the one suggesting this was a training trip Courtney had put together, Tim
(not seaver). Not sure I see your point either way, though. Isn't it about time to let the issue go ?

 

[leaf]

Keep in mind, Mats, that the word "train" doesn't appear in this thread until you were back. Had it been stated up front that this was "training for Leaf's trip to Denali" then I think presumptions on the reader's part would have been very different.

Also keep in mind that you have a reputation for doing these outlandishly long trips about what most mere mortals here can only dream.

Tim

This trip was not put together for the specific purpose of "training me". Also, I didn't decide to do the loop -just- for training either, it was simply an added benefit! (Remember, I'm nuts, I do this for fun! ) Una_dogger saw this added benefit and brought it up and made some good points. Both Mats and mountaingirl are heading off to -much- higher pursuits this year and next year than I. That's for sure! And most likely they didn't do this specifically for training either. I've been planning for weeks to try and do the Loop and found out Mats was planning the same thing the same weekend! When I found this out, I contacted him and we decided it would be silly not to go together so we started planning. And a 5 page TR was born!

Hey, great quote Mats! And yes, I'm still tired from the trip so shall we let this one lie?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Let me (re)state that it was not my intention to malign anyone or question anyone's hiking pedigree, or decision making process. Only to learn from it.

Consider it dropped.

Tim

 

[Mats Roing]

Let's have a beer and a group hug

Thanks everyone for great input

One reason we have this forum to learn from each other

 

[giggy]

considering what the folks on this trip have done in and outside new england, (for christ sake, mtngirl just go back from vinson) I think its safe to say they have good judgement and skills to get things done or turn back if needed - and quite frankly, I am bit shocked to see that was ever in question.

 

[David Metsky]

considering what the folks on this trip have done in and outside new england, (for christ sake, mtngirl just go back from vinson) I think its safe to say they have good judgement and skills to get things done or turn back if needed - and quite frankly, I am bit shocked to see that was ever in question.

Oh, and we were so close to exiting this on a high note.

It's always a good thing to question. It wasn't insulting, it wasn't presumptive, it was merely a question. Even knowing the climbing resumes of the participants IMO it was valid to ask about planning, motives, etc. We all learned from the discussion.

Group hug!