Redington and Spaulding sub-4000 feet?

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Guthook

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I was just out on the AT in Maine, and I noticed that on the Maine AT maps (2004 edition), along with on the Spaulding summit sign, Spaulding and Redington are both listed as below 4000 feet (3988 and 3984 feet). Anybody know when that changed?
 
I was just out on the AT in Maine, and I noticed that on the Maine AT maps (2004 edition), along with on the Spaulding summit sign, Spaulding and Redington are both listed as below 4000 feet (3988 and 3984 feet). Anybody know when that changed?
Recently bro! Ask Tom rankin.:D DSCN5223.jpg
 
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I was just out on the AT in Maine, and I noticed that on the Maine AT maps (2004 edition), along with on the Spaulding summit sign, Spaulding and Redington are both listed as below 4000 feet (3988 and 3984 feet). Anybody know when that changed?
The change was in the other direction, those elevations are from the obsolete 1956 USGS 15' quad:
http://docs.unh.edu/ME/strt56se.jpg

I don't know why MATC still uses those elevations on their signs any more than I know why their sign on Little Bigelow is half a mile from the true summit
 
The change was in the other direction, those elevations are from the obsolete 1956 USGS 15' quad:
http://docs.unh.edu/ME/strt56se.jpg

I don't know why MATC still uses those elevations on their signs any more than I know why their sign on Little Bigelow is half a mile from the true summit

Yeah, I figured that was the case-- the old USGS surveys being the culprit. The Spaulding summit sign is definitely not brand new, but it doesn't look too old. Whoever made the latest one must have just duplicated the old one and forgot to update the elevation.

I didn't notice any sign for Little Bigelow going through there.
 
Off the top of my head, I think you had until April 1, 2001, to not climb Redington and Spaulding and still receive credit as having completed the Northeast 111er list.

I think their elevations were updated around then to ‘‘circa 4010 feet.’’

In my first White Mountain Guide, the 23rd edition from 1983, Bondcliff had been recently added to the White Mountain 4000-footer list and was a climbing option until a certain date, after which it was required for anyone wishing to receive certification for completing the list. Galehead was the 47th addition before that. And mountains have changed on the Hundred Highest list, too.
 
During the Reagan era there was a move to privatize everything including the USGS map publishing group. At one point the USGS was instructed to stop printing any new maps, they would let private industry take over. Many rural parts of the country were still using 15 minute quads from the 1920's. There was some resistance to the USGS proposal so the government agree to update all the US to 7.5 minute quads. Soon thereafter a large volume of new 7.5 minute provisional were produced. They were based on fairly good topography that I believe were obtained from satellites but the field work was provisional, thus the maps had hand entered notes and temporary bench marks in place of neat lettering. I believe during this period various mountains "grew" or "fell" on the maps. The 100 highest list also changed, so the "four pack" in the Eustis area turned into the "six pack" and middle Abraham and east Horn fell off the list. The 4 K committee (basically Gene Daniels) said enough with revising the lists and made one last revision based on the 1987 provisional quads. I believe that the ongoing plan was that if the elevations changed again due to later map revision that the list would be frozen like the ADK lists. There was one or two year grace period. When I did the traditional labor day hike to the four pack with AMC, we stopped by Kennebago divide as Gene mentioned that it would soon count. I still haven't gotten back up there to add in Snow but I was done with the list before the new list kicked in.

The other driver of updating the maps all over the US was the attempt to locate a new nuclear waste repository. There were many new geological maps issued by the government that were produced during the effort.

As an aside, when I first started the 100 highest list many of the 7.5 minute provisional for the more remote summits (like the 4 pack) were not yet available. It was the early age of the internet and my brother read a post on a use group that if someone bought $500 worth of USGS maps, they became a map dealer and got a 50% discount. In order to order the maps the USGS published two books, one was an index of the new map quads names and the other one was an index to the published maps. On a whim I included several maps that were named but listed as not published on the order. A few weeks later I got my part of the order and I ended up with the new quads for many of the remote 100 highest. For about a year folks I ran into in the then much 100 highest community kept asking me where I got those new maps. The year of the first VFTT gathering in Eustis, I was quite surprised to see that the general store had started stocking the new maps about 2 years after I had gotten mine.
 
Isn't there some rule about rounding up to the next interval and adding ten feet if there is no Benchmark? This happened with other peaks too already over 4000 feet getting a new elevation with a nice round number in Maine. Every topo map I've seen shows the elevations of these two at sub 4000 feet.
 
During the Reagan era there was a move to privatize everything including the USGS map publishing group. At one point the USGS was instructed to stop printing any new maps, they would let private industry take over. Many rural parts of the country were still using 15 minute quads from the 1920's. There was some resistance to the USGS proposal so the government agree to update all the US to 7.5 minute quads. Soon thereafter a large volume of new 7.5 minute provisional were produced. They were based on fairly good topography that I believe were obtained from satellites but the field work was provisional, thus the maps had hand entered notes and temporary bench marks in place of neat lettering. I believe during this period various mountains "grew" or "fell" on the maps. The 100 highest list also changed, so the "four pack" in the Eustis area turned into the "six pack" and middle Abraham and east Horn fell off the list. The 4 K committee (basically Gene Daniels) said enough with revising the lists and made one last revision based on the 1987 provisional quads. I believe that the ongoing plan was that if the elevations changed again due to later map revision that the list would be frozen like the ADK lists. There was one or two year grace period. When I did the traditional labor day hike to the four pack with AMC, we stopped by Kennebago divide as Gene mentioned that it would soon count. I still haven't gotten back up there to add in Snow but I was done with the list before the new list kicked in.

The other driver of updating the maps all over the US was the attempt to locate a new nuclear waste repository. There were many new geological maps issued by the government that were produced during the effort.

As an aside, when I first started the 100 highest list many of the 7.5 minute provisional for the more remote summits (like the 4 pack) were not yet available. It was the early age of the internet and my brother read a post on a use group that if someone bought $500 worth of USGS maps, they became a map dealer and got a 50% discount. In order to order the maps the USGS published two books, one was an index of the new map quads names and the other one was an index to the published maps. On a whim I included several maps that were named but listed as not published on the order. A few weeks later I got my part of the order and I ended up with the new quads for many of the remote 100 highest. For about a year folks I ran into in the then much 100 highest community kept asking me where I got those new maps. The year of the first VFTT gathering in Eustis, I was quite surprised to see that the general store had started stocking the new maps about 2 years after I had gotten mine.

This is why VFTT is the only web forum I still frequent. Thanks Peakbagger!!! This is gold!
 
This is why VFTT is the only web forum I still frequent. Thanks Peakbagger!!! This is gold!
I think Peakbagger was "Moses" in his prior life. Interesting historical info.
 
Isn't there some rule about rounding up to the next interval and adding ten feet if there is no Benchmark? This happened with other peaks too already over 4000 feet getting a new elevation with a nice round number in Maine. Every topo map I've seen shows the elevations of these two at sub 4000 feet.

Then you must never have looked at the USGS 7.5' series:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=45.01045...ountain ME&marker1=45.00359,-70.33357,unnamed

On these maps neither summit has an elevation but both have a 4000' contour and not a 4020' contour, so the summit elevation should be at least 4000' but not 4020'

Some lists give the highest contour shown (the guaranteed elev if the map is correct) and others add half the contour interval to that (probably closer to the true elev), note that which method is selected may affect which peaks are on a list - consider Mt Lincoln NH and the bump just N of it
 
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