Solution to Clay/Reagan Problem

[RoySwkr]

I actually testified at the hearing that renaming peaks only causes confusion, and they should instead rename N Isolation which has no official name. Some of the people testifying in favor of Clay didn't even know what state he was from, they were just anti-Reagan. Of course Clay's platform of extending slavery to the territories probably wouldn't be too popular today if anyone knew much about him.

The trail adopter at that time thought the change would never take effect because naming policies are more stringent in Wilderness areas. Because a politician is involved, I'm not so sure. But perhaps we will still be able to take the Mt Clay Loop to Mt Reagan just as we can take the Mt Clinton Trail to Mt Pierce.

And, I believe it was Pleasant Dome. Check old maps.

It depends on how old a map you check

http://docs.unh.edu/NH/crwf96ne.jpg

http://docs.unh.edu/NH/crwfsh46ne.jpg

 

[Papa Bear]

Correct, DeWitt Clinton, former governor of New York. And, I believe it was Pleasant Dome. Check old maps.

-Dr. Wu

Pleasant Dome/Mt. Pleasant = Eisenhower (not Clinton)

1896 Map

 

[David Metsky]

Pleasant Dome/Mt. Pleasant = Eisenhower (not Clinton)

Dr Wu was answering two different questions.

 

[Willoughby]

To the extent it really matters what they call a given mountain I'd prefer, out of some sort of obsessive-compulsive disorder I suppose, that all the Presidentials be named after, well, a President.

What about the non-Presidentials named after Presidents? (Lincoln.) Then there's the "problem" that Madison and Monroe are reversed.

My niece asked me, after an emailed trail report, what mountains were the Presidentials and why. I bet she thought it was a simple question, but several long paragraphs later she was probably sorry

Happily the naming was more consistent in other areas. For example, the Twins are mostly Twins: North & South, or the two summits of Guyot

Whenever I think the naming of mountains is consistent or coherent, I look at the history of the Hight/Wildcat/Carter names.

 

[Peakbagr]

Darren's deleted 2 posts on this already, and Dave addressed this before I could get to it.
If it goes political the offending posts and possibly the thread will disappear.
No fault to Dr Wu for beginning the question.

 

[dr_wu002]

Speaking of which, today (July 11, 2008) is the 204th anniversary of Alexander Hamilton's fatal duel with Aaron Burr.

-Dr. Wu

 

[RoySwkr]

Then there's the "problem" that Madison and Monroe are reversed.

Apparently the Northern Presidentials were named for the next 3 presidents, and the Southern Presidentials later, it wasn't an issue of guessing wrong on elevation as I also suspected.

 

[dr_wu002]

Apparently the Northern Presidentials were named for the next 3 presidents, and the Southern Presidentials later, it wasn't an issue of guessing wrong on elevation as I also suspected.

Yes, but then shouldn't it be Adams - Jefferson - Madison? I think they sandwiched Adams in between Jefferson and Madison just to piss him off! Talk about "partisan politicians!" Even though Jefferson and Adams reconciled (much) later they were pretty vicious to one another at the time of their presidencies.

-Dr. Wu

 

[dclynch]

Which Clinton?

I thought that Mt Clinton was named for someone other than DeWitt, but I can't remember where that thought came from.

 

[arghman]

I think a better name for Clay/Reagan would be...

well if there has to be a name change from Clay (which I support for historical inertia reasons), in a heartbeat I'd nominate any of these: Bradford Washburn, Joe Dodge, Robert S. Monahan. Washburn spearheaded the Presi Range map, and the other two got the Mt Washington Observatory going (among other achievements).

somewhat tangential question, trying to avoid politics and instead wondering about information I may have missed in my ignorance of current events: have there been any recent developments w/ the (potential) Clay/Reagan name change? (date of death = June 2004 -> USGS can't rename until June 2009)

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...somewhat tangential question, trying to avoid politics and instead wondering about information I may have missed in my ignorance of current events: have there been any recent developments w/ the (potential) Clay/Reagan name change? (date of death = June 2004 -> USGS can't rename until June 2009)

I have a vague recollection reading, perhaps a year ago, maybe even more, that the name change was approved, or mostly. If Roy follows this thread, he may be able give us specifics on it's status.

Depending upon the outcome of the next general election, it might be several years before any name change is finalized, regardless of its status.

 

[DougPaul]

I have a vague recollection reading, perhaps a year ago, maybe even more, that the name change was approved, or mostly. If Roy follows this thread, he may be able give us specifics on it's status.

I have a vague recollection that the approval was at the state level, which of course has no authority, but might have influence with the USGS Board of Geographic Names.

Hopefully someone knows what actually happened...

Doug

 

[rocket21]

My understanding is that the state approved it but the the feds won't *consider* it until 5 years after President's Reagan's death.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/06/07/mountain_may_be_renamed_for_reagan

 

[RoySwkr]

The NH state legislature did vote for the change several years ago when it was mostly Republican, I suppose that the present mostly Democratic legislature could rescind it.

In addition to the ordinary regulations about waiting 5 years the US Board of Geographic Names has additional rules about not naming features in Wilderness areas for people, they aren't going to revoke existing names but might not change one. Of course the US Congress can override their decision and Congress is quite non-partisan about naming things for each other.

Yes, but then shouldn't it be Adams - Jefferson - Madison?

Named in height order

I thought that Mt Clinton was named for someone other than DeWitt, but I can't remember where that thought came from.

"Place Names of the White Mountains" by Hixon says DeWitt but possibly they're wrong.

 

[Ridgewalker]

"Originally Posted by dr_wu002
Yes, but then shouldn't it be Adams - Jefferson - Madison?"


May I steer you to page 44 in Forest and Crag. Those without a copy-

Adino Nye Brackett affirms in his notes of the Lancastrian trip in 1820 that Mount Adams is the second peak north of Washington. But he contradicts that when he told a Pinkham landowner that the peaks were named in presidential succession.

The group record affirms presidential order. I think that Mr. Brackett's memory was foggy on how they named mountains while being hammered with 'oh be joyful'

 

[WSC]

Did Mt. Clay have a previous name, since most of the mountains around it were named earlier?
WSC?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Going back to 1896, it is still labeled Mt. Clay.

http://docs.unh.edu/NH/mtws96se.jpg

Tim

 

[Ridgewalker]

Did Mt. Clay have a previous name, since most of the mountains around it were named earlier?
WSC?

WSC-

It was named in 1848 by William Oakes in his book "Scenery of the White Mountains." Makes me wonder now if it was supposed to be Mt. Adams. This would be a fun research trip!

 

[jniehof]

Yes, but then shouldn't it be Adams - Jefferson - Madison? I think they sandwiched Adams in between Jefferson and Madison just to piss him off!

My reading is that the party that named the northern Presis actually did have it Adams-Jefferson-Madison. Somehow when stuff got written down, Adams and Jefferson were swapped. Forest and Crag, as mentioned, has the details.

 

[SteveHiker]

My reading is that the party that named the northern Presis actually did have it Adams-Jefferson-Madison. Somehow when stuff got written down, Adams and Jefferson were swapped. Forest and Crag, as mentioned, has the details.

so that would mean the Adams Family should really be the Jeffersons!

JQ Adams should be George and Sam Adams should be Weezie.

Adams 4 and 5 would be Jefferson 4 and 5, or maybe Lionel and Florence.


on a related subject, how/when/why did North Lincoln become Truman? And does the Chicago Tribune refer to that peak as Mt Dewey?