The latest GPS thhread - Garmin or Delorme

[DougPaul]

I carry it vertically oriented high on the shoulder strap in the non-metallic Garmin-supplied carrying case. I don't relocate it for the descent. I've noticed this on at least two out-and-back tracks.

The 76-series is best when oriented horizontally. (It was optimized for nautical use sitting on a horizontal chart table.) Your head and body also blocks out some of the sky.

Mounting it horizontally on top of your head, above your head on a pole, or with an external antenna on top of or above your head is best. Not all of these are practical, however... In practice we generally have to compromise. FWIW, I generally carry my 60CSx in the top (lid) pocket of my pack, oriented as close to vertically as possible. (The best orientation for the 60CSx is vertical.)

That's exactly my point - it's half-assed of them to not use the SD card if available. These tracks appear to be invisible to the GPS. Maybe I've missed something.

I think you missed the history...

The earlier Garmin GPSes didn't have removable memory cards. The current storage scheme is an extension of the older structure not a redesign. The uniform architecture (across models) probably makes for simpler and more reliable software design and less user confusion...

I know there are other ways to get what I'm looking for but honestly I want to do it all with MapSource. My customers constantly ask for features in my product which are widely available in free products, or with the operating system. One-stop shopping is a big selling point, or a souring point, depending on your view.

I paid for the Garmin - this isn't free/open source software where I'm used to having to use several tools to get a job done.

Sure it would be nice to have one tool do everything one wants, but somebody is sure to declare something missing... However, the importance of a missing feature is greatly diminished if there is an easy work-around.

FWIW, since I work in the Linux environment and run MapSource in a Windows emulator, using GPSBabel to interact the the GPS is standard operating procedure for me. It does everything that I need except load maps into the GPS (which is a rare need these days).

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Garmin's support has been historically poor. I contacted them a few months ago re: a problem I had with a new 1490 spontaneously rebooting. Eventually it was resolved by reloading the operating system, but when they don't respond to emails - even for items under warranty - perhaps only once every 6-8 days, it gets discouraging that a solution will be found.

The 1490 was purchased on Amazon, but they only warranty Garmin items for the first 30 days, forcing you to deal with Garmin if the problems occur after that period.

They have a good product, and charge premium prices. But, their attitude re: customer support borders on arrogance.

From what I have seen elsewhere, Garmin's customer support has generally been considered to be well above average. It is possible that it has gone downhill recently...

Doug

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

MapSource crashes a lot. Mainly when I try and save a downloaded track and waypoint set as a GPX file. It works fine as a gdb file (binary Garmin format).

Interesting ...

I never had this problem on my old XP machine. It happens regularly on one of my new Windows 7 machines (if I need/want a GPX file I just save it as gdb and fire up GPSBabel), never had the problem on my other Windows 7 machine.

I should probably give Basecamp a try, as it is the current "official" Garmin software tool, but have not been able to muster the enthusiasm needed to learn another tool.

 

[DougPaul]

The unit seems to track very well. It locked up exactly once and had to be power-cycled. Sometimes I get a parallel track on the descent to the one on the ascent, off by some 50' or so, which I attribute to the margin of accuracy.

The 76-series is best when oriented horizontally. (It was optimized for nautical use sitting on a horizontal chart table.) Your head and body also blocks out some of the sky.

Mounting it horizontally on top of your head, above your head on a pole, or with an external antenna on top of or above your head is best. Not all of these are practical, however... In practice we generally have to compromise. FWIW, I generally carry my 60CSx in the top (lid) pocket of my pack, oriented as close to vertically as possible. (The best orientation for the 60CSx is vertical.)

I should perhaps add that the accuracy was probably also degraded by foliage and terrain. The best locations have an unobstructed full hemisphere skyview*--typically found by hikers on bare summits and above timberline ridges.

*Actually GPSes tend to ignore satellites that are below about 5 or 10 degrees above the geometric horizon, so you don't require the full hemisphere--just most of it.

FWIW--I was able to backtrack within a few feet (say <10ft) in some woods yesterday after about a half hour. The GPS bakeoffs (http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14406 and http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15025) measured the cross-track error between ingress and egress on the same path for a number of GPSes in several environments. I/we obtained average cross-track errors of ~3m in flat treed suburbia and 4.6m in a treed valley (Depot Camp to Lower Greely Pond) using the 60CSx (internal antenna, carried in a fairly "normal" way). Older GPSes didn't do as well. In general, an external antenna on top of one's head gave higher accuracies than the internal antenna with the GPS carried in a "normal" way. (The difference is more likely due to the antenna location rather than internal vs external.)

Doug

 

[TomD]

I've had good luck with Sanyo's Eneloop rechargeable batteries. Don't cost any more than other rechargeables, but are of the type that don't discharge over time (or so slowly it's insignificant). Get a quality charger - I think Big Earl started a thread on that recently.

Carry a set of lithium batteries when temps approach zero or below. They're spendy, but little affected by cold. Keeping your space set of NiMH warm will help, but sometimes - particularly if you're in a steady wind - lithiums are necessary.

I don't have a preference for those GPS units you listed, as I'm still solidly in the Garmin 60CSx camp, and don't see myself changing for 3-5 years unless there's a dramatic technological breakthru. Like Doug, I have both an old and new 60CSx.

I second the Eneloops. I have two sets of them (they came in a blue case with a charger) that were given to me. I use them in my Garmin 76CSx which I think is like the 60CSx and they seem to last quite a while. I like the idea of replaceable batteries. If I had a solar charger, I might feel differently, but don't have one.

 

[DougPaul]

I second the Eneloops. I have two sets of them (they came in a blue case with a charger) that were given to me. I use them in my Garmin 76CSx which I think is like the 60CSx and they seem to last quite a while. I like the idea of replaceable batteries. If I had a solar charger, I might feel differently, but don't have one.

I have both Eneloops (a brand of low-self-discharge NiMH cell) and "normal" NiMH cells. In general, the low self-discharge cells give up some capacity for a longer shelf life (per charge).

Measured capacities of some of my cells:
* AA Eneloop 2000: ~2000 mAh
* AA "normal" (LaCrosse 2600): ~2500 mAh

When using the Eneloops, I recharge them after use and put them on the shelf. If I use them within a reasonable time (eg <6 months) I just use them as is. When using the normal cells, I also recharge them shortly before use if it has been more than a month or so since the last recharge or if I want maximum capacity. Both kinds of cell are similar when in use.

Either low-self-discharge or normal cells work perfectly well if you choose the better cell for the application taking the self-discharge characteristics into account. For instance, I use Eneloops in my hiking headlamp which may sit in my pack for several months or longer before being used. In contrast, I use normal cells in applications where I expect to use several sets over a short period (eg a few days). I charge one set while using the other set--when the active set is exhausted, I switch sets. Since there is little time for the cells to self-discharge this allows me to take advantage of the higher capacity of the normal cells.

FWIW, I buy my cells in sets of 12 because it breaks down nicely into groups of 2, 3, and 4. The supplier also gives discounts for the larger quantities...

Doug

 

[TomD]

I wondered why the Eneloops stayed charged so long. Thanks Doug, I didn't realize there were different types.

 

[Stash]

Lots of great information in this thread. Thanks folks. I'll be keeping much of this in mind when shopping.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Other Random GPS tidbits

By 2010, GLONASS had achieved 100% coverage of Russia's territory and in October 2011, the full orbital constellation of 24 satellites was restored, enabling full global coverage.

Garmin is starting to make GLONASS compatible units.

Qualcomm announced its GLONASS support in May, spurred in part by a new Russian government requirement that phones sold there include GLONASS or pay additional import taxes. But this is a good thing for Americans and especially Canadians: because the satellites target Russian latitudes, they perform especially well in northern countries.

 

[DougPaul]

Garmin is starting to make GLONASS compatible units.

The Garmin eTrex 20 and the eTrex 30 use both GPS and GLONASS and are already available: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145&pID=87771 https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145&pID=87774 Garmin claims that they are the first consumer GPSes to do so.

Once the European Galileo system is up and running, many (most?) consumer GPSes will use all three. The primary advantage is likely to be more available satellites in highly limited skyview situations such as urban canyons.

The biggest improvements in accuracy are likely to come from multi-frequency transmissions which are coming in GPS in the next ~5 years and are in the Galileo plans. (Multi-frequency operation enables the GPS unit to directly measure the ionospheric delay which is the current accuracy limiting factor in consumer GPSes.)

Doug

 

[CINDERSMOM]

Garmin Map 60 csx

I have been hiking with my Garmin Map 60 csx on my shoulder strap for over 2 years now. I have picked the color blue by going to the tracks icon and on the set-up page selecting a color. There is a great selection of colors however when you first get your Garmin it usually comes in transparent so it is hard to see the track you are making. I come home from a hike and download my track on mapsource and save all my tracks on my computer. (They take up very little space). I have found that some of the trails are not exactly where they are on the maps from Garmin. So I now download the tracks that I know are accurate, in a different color (green) when I return on a hike. I can see the trail easily on my map page and have always been close enough to stay on track. I use rechargable batteries and always carry extras and in the winter carry the extras close to my body. I love my Garmin Map 60 CSX and would HIGHLY recommend it. Whenever there has been a problem Garmin has been very helpful and always responded quickly to any questions. And that's my 2 cents worth

 

[DougPaul]

I have found that some of the trails are not exactly where they are on the maps from Garmin.

The Garmin maps are derived from the USGS Topos and it is well known that many trails are inaccurate* or have been moved since the maps were made. GPSes have allowed the general public to see the errors. (And consumer GPSes have errors and are often used by unskilled users too...)

The USGS Topos were made from aerial photographs--the trails are often not visible on the photos and must be drawn in by guesswork.


High accuracy GPS tracks for the WMNF have been made available by the USDA Forest Service. An individual (Chris) converted them to GPX format and made them available. See "WMNF GIS trails data - GPX" http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38643 post #3.

Doug