Two new canine members completed their first NH 4000 footer

[Sabra]

I would like to introduce my two dogs to this forum and ask for some feedback from the more experienced dog owners here.

We hiked yesterday Mt. Moosilauke with Sammy, our 9 years old dog and Hana, our 10 month old puppy. Sammy is an active and fit Golden Retriever. He joined us for many small hikes and walks in the past, such as Welch and Dickey, Mt. Chocorua, Mt. Major and others. He seems to enjoy the activity and as an old man he is now obedient and for most of the time he is off the leash while on the trail. He always keeps eye contact with us and he comes when we call him.

Hana is a Chinese Shar-pei puppy. We adopted her in February from the MSPCA after they rescued 18 Shar pei dogs from a house south to Boston (see the story here). She was very weak and sick when we got her, she couldn’t open her eyes and in addition, she suffered the common behavioral issues that most animals that had been abused and neglected suffer. In the past 4 month she had gone through a major eye and face surgery (which the MSPCA generously sponsored) and with a lot of love and patience she has become a healthy and happy puppy. She is becoming more and more obedient and she follows the common commands (come, sit, stay, etc.). She is now a strong, fast and energetic dog and we felt that hiking will be a wonderful activity for her.

The four of us enjoyed the hike tremendously. We started with Hana on the retractable leash and she was good but it was clear that she wanted to be free and run with Sammy. We decided to take the risk and let her off the leash. While walking, Jay called the dogs regularly to get Hana used to being obedient on the trail and to come on command. For a while everything was great until a young woman passed us running up the trail and Hana took off with her… We called her to come back, we screamed, but the young woman wouldn’t stop as if she didn’t understand what was going on, and Hana simply enjoyed running. It took a couple of minutes until Jay was able to reach and grab Hana. Of course, she was back on the leash. We made it to the summit; there was a large gathering there of a Facebook hiking group and many other people and dogs. Hana was quite an attraction; everyone commented about how cute she is, some recognized the breed and others asked about it.
It was foggy, windy and cold and we didn’t stay there for long. After we took some pictures we went back below tree line. When the trail was defined enough we let Hana off the leash again and she did well. Like before, when other people passed us she would go with them, but since nobody ran the trail it was easy to grab her collar and remind her that she is with us…
Sammy was a wonderful hiker and big brother to Hana. He probably did an extra 2 miles, running back and forth, but this is normal to him. He was very tired at the end of the hike and he seems to be sore today. I was wondering if there is something we can do for him to make him more comfortable for the next couple of days. I read somewhere that it is not recommended to give dogs Advil or any other NSAID. Also, do you think he may be too old for longer and tougher hikes? How much should we push him? Any advice will be helpful here.

I would also be interested to know your feedback on how to train dogs to be obedient in the woods. Do you think it is too soon to let a 10-month old puppy be off the leash?
Thanks in advance!

Here are a couple of pictures from our hike.

Driving up to NH the dogs are watching from the back seat to make sure we don't take any wrong turns

The dogs are off the leash. Jay calls them and they come!

At the summit

After the hike at the White Mountains visitor center. The dogs are pooped.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Most of my experience with dogs and hiking has been with 3 Newfoundlands, so I offer that as a point of reference. In terms of painkillers, my vet told me never to give a dog aspirin in any form (enteric, buffered, etc) and ibuprofen sparingly (and NEVER to a cat). Vets seem to prefer something like Rimadyl. As for Sammy - I'd take my cues from him, and what his attitude was when he knows you're going hiking, especially if you begin to do alot of 4K or higher peaks. If he starts to balk/lose interest in getting in the car, then he's reaching his limits. As for Hanna - personally, I think 10 months is too early to start hiking 4K's with a larger dog, especially one with her history. I'd give her plenty of exercise, but not at a 4K level for at least a few more months. Unlike Sammy - an adult dog - a puppy will try to do whatever you ask of it, and you risk permanent joint/tissue damage if it's too much too early. Also - how cold-tolerant are Shar-pei's? I ask that because in your last picture Hanna looks cold.

As for trail manners - I think time and consistency are your friends. She's got alot to get used to, so give her time to adjust to the woods and hiking, and in time she'll learn how to behave with your gentle guidance.

Love that first picture!

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

You should check with your vet. There is a good drug for older dogs to reduce joint pain: Rymidal. Your vet can best counsel you on this.

Some dogs are Velcro dogs almost from birth, others take longer to get to that point where they can be trusted. Some never do. There are techniques that can be tried to help with the training. No one knows better than I how great it is to see a dog run free, but trail etiquette requires that your dog be under complete voice or physical control at all times. You need to work with your dog under controlled circumstances and until you are confident that you have complete voice control your dog should be on a leash.

There are many hikers out there that don't like dogs and and many who do who don't like it when a dog comes running at them. There are also other dog owners hiking who are not happy when a dog running free runs after their dog. Poor dog owners can spoil things for other more conscientious dog owners.

Trust me, even on this site, threads about dogs can really get hot. The reason is usually because of dogs that are not under control.

I'm glad you're a dog lover. I wish you as many wonderfully happy miles as I've had with Lauky and even many more.

Best wishes.

 

[sierra]

I rescued an Australian Shepard last year and we started off doing short hikes, so I could gauge his fitness and ability. We then moved on to the 4k's and he is a champ at hiking. In regards to off leash-verses leash, here's my 2 cents. My dog will never leave me, he is a Velcro dog, BUT he loves dog's and people and will go up to them on the trail, I prefer to have the ability to stop that until I'm at his side. He also loves wildlife and my biggest concern is him chasing some form of wildlife and getting lost. Just yesterday on the Willy range, a rabbit ran right out in front of him, had he not been leashed, I'm not sure how far he would have gone, I will not take the chance of losing him. I use a 16 ft retractable leash clipped to the waist belt of my pack. This gives him plenty of freedom, but I still have full control at all times. In regards to heat, I have figured out my dogs threshold at about 82 degrees considering high humidity, on those days we do shorter hikes or go exploring, I do not want him to suffer from over heating. I carry a lot of water, although he takes advantage of all natural water, I use a cloth collapsable bowl that works great. I always check his pads while we are out, so far no issues. As far as commands, like when we are not hiking I use consistent tones and commands and expect full cooperation, dogs want to obey, they want to please us, but we have to set firm and consistent levels of training. I use the specific words for each action and he learns them and responds very well. Good Luck see you out there.

 

[Kevin Judy and Emma]

Our little mountain dog just passed away. She had literally hundreds of happy, successful, leash-free mountain hikes on the 4k's and on many lesser mountains. I agree with all that has been said by others so far, but would emphasize taking things easy with the little one for a few more months until her bone plates are mature. As for your older boy it is probably time to start slowing things down for him. The longer hikes with more elevation gain are probably going to be asking more than he should be giving, we know because we continued to hike our dog to some larger peaks even though she had begun to slow down and was wiped out the next day. Rimadyl is a good solution used sparingly, like the day before, day of and day after a hike, but not as a daily thing until they are reaching the end of their life span. Then it can be used on a daily basis to make them as comfortable as possible.

We were lucky in that our dog would explore ahead, but always return to keep track of us. Treats along the trail can go a long way to keep your dog near you, and always have something for them to eat and drink when you stop. If they realize this is the routine they will stay close by. We were also lucky that she was not particularly interested in chasing anything bigger than red squirrels and chipmunks, and for many years I was convinced she didn't know they climbed trees, I think she thought they just disappeared into thin air! Control with a dog when it sees a deer or a moose can be difficult to say the least, and is a good argument to keep the dog leashed. It is also common courtesy to have a leash ready to hook the dog with on a summit or rest stop where they may become interested in other people's food. I watched a dog snag an expensive block of cheese on a summit once, the people were not too happy with the owner.

Another thing to be cautious with is hiking above tree-line in the Whites. The weather is notorious enough, but there are other factors little considered: One is the geological make up of the Presidential Range. The quartzite mica-schist rock surfaces are rough and can be jagged and can easily bruise, scrape and cut a dogs paws. Dogs used to walking on asphalt may have tough enough pads to face this better than dogs which are not. The heavier the dog, the greater the pounding as they are crossing the rocks, the more opportunity for injuries to their pads and nails. Another factor above tree-line is there can be a lack of water if things have been dry, and if the sun is beating down in clear skies there is no shade to retreat to or water to cool off in and it can be downright desert-like. Strict attention to each of your dog's well being is essential for safe trips on all your hikes, but even more so above tree-line. And there is a whole other set of rules and precautions when you begin to winter hike with them!

Welcome to you and your dogs here on this forum, and feel free to continue to ask questions and opinions, for there is a wealth of knowledge and experience here. Good luck to you and your hiking companions!

KDT

 

[Sabra]

Thanks Kevin, Ed, Sierra and Kevin for the feedback and the interesting insights. All comments are very helpful and are taken seriously.

We will watch Sammy’s behavior during and after hikes and will attend to him as necessary. Rimadyl sounds like a good solution and we will check with the vet.

Taking Hana for a hike and leaving Sammy behind doesn’t seem to be a good idea because Hana needs Sammy’s lead for now. All in all, considering both dogs, in the next few months we will probably do some beautiful easy and moderate hikes with them and leave them home when we go for the more difficult hikes.

With regards to the leash/off leash question, we definitely respect others on the trail and we are well aware of the trail etiquette. It took me about 8 years to trust Sammy and let him go off the leash, but I have a good feeling about Hana. She is learning fast and as most of you said, she is trying to satisfy us all the time. As for running after squirrels, her vision is not perfect (and will never be) so she will probably miss them anyway

Kevin (KDT) – I am sorry for your loss of Emma. The great love and fun memories you had for her made me smile when I read your post. I wish these memories will stay with you forever.

See you all on the trail.

 

[TracyH]

Welcome to you and your dogs- they are lovely! I am also pretty new here and a fellow dog lover.

I love allowing my lab, Simon, to hike off leash with me, but my rule of thumb is that no one ever has to interact with my dog unless they choose to. When it comes to training him to be reliable off leash (which is a life long process with new and exciting distraction always presenting themselves) I always start training any task with the least number of distractions and in the quietest most familiar places possible. So a possible hierarchy of training might be, to train each behavior until competency is reached under the following conditions:
1. Inside in the living room
a. in the kitchen
b. in the bedroom
c. in the bathroom... you get the idea, dogs do not generalize behaviors well, so must learn that the cue "stay" means the same thing in any location

2. Inside with toy distractions in each room
3. Inside with food distractions in each room
4. Inside with people distraction in each room
5. Inside with dog/cat distractions in each room (the order here depends on which things your dog finds most distracting and start with the least toc
highest)

6-8. Outside in your dog's yard in a variety of locations
7- 10. outside with various distractions

11-14 At a friend's house and other dog friendly indoor locations- hardware store, pet store; choosing from least distractions around to most

12-the rest of life! Outside in a variety of locations and with increasing distractions

You get the picture- and it is much less time consuming than it looks

I think Sue Ailsby's dog training levels program is one of the best and she has a pdf checklist you can download here:
http://www.sue-eh.ca

Have fun and perhaps we might see you on the trails someday!

 

[Sabra]

Thanks Tracy for the comments!

Since I am here again on this thread, I will add a short update on Sammy and Hana. We took them last weekend to the Fells, a large and beautiful reservation area just north to Boston. We walked a few miles around the reservoirs and had a great time. Besides just enjoying ourselves, we wanted to use this opportunity to give Hana more training on off-leash hiking. We could see the progress from the beginning to the end of the day. When the day was over we gave her an A- grade, for being social and friendly with others and for joining us when we called her. Before we went back home we spent some time at the dog park near the Sheepfold entrance parking lot and the dogs had a blast. Sammy has been there many times and for Hana it was a first time experience of being around more than 20 dogs of all sizes, from miniature Greyhound to a 9-month old (and beautiful) Great Dane puppy. She started off following Sammy and when she became more comfortable she just hung out with the gang and came to us when we called her.

An interesting observation on how the dogs handled the heat conditions – it was a hot day, the temperature was around 90. We had plenty of water and a bowl for the dogs. Sammy, the long hair Golden seemed very comfortable. He ran around the entire day, sipped water when we offered, as if doing us a favor, while Hana, the short coat dog seemed less comfortable towards the end of the day. She drank a lot every time we stopped for a water break, and at the end of the day her tongue was hanging outside of the mouth, showing us her body needed to cool down. This was the opposite of what we had expected, and just something we will remember when we plan hiking with the dogs in the summer.

 

[Kevin Judy and Emma]

That sounds about right for the dogs reaction to the heat. The older dog probably took it a little easier than the young one. We have a young one that we walk and she would literally chase a ball until she dropped. She has the hardest time on the hot days as she overworks and will not conserve. Most dogs learn to do this over time. The tongue hanging is a definite sign that they have had enough and probably need more than just a rest. We turned around without reaching summits when Emma showed us she was too hot or overworked.

I think because of the structure of the Shar-pei's face she may have more trouble breathing in hot weather which my interfere with her ability to pant which is their mechanism to cool down. Please continue to monitor her closely while she's on the trail and be ready to turn back if she shows distress or fatigue.

Hoping you all many happy miles together!

KDT

 

[Sabra]

Thanks Kevin. I always learn something from your posts!

 

[una_dogger]

Welcome!

Lots of good suggestions here- I'd also like to add taking a group pet obedience class with Hana to help increase your bond and connection with her independant of Sammy. It's great that he has Sammy as a role model while on the trails and at The Fells.

I'm in the Greater Boston area and an active competitor in dog sports in addition to hiking with my own two dogs. I'd be happy to recommend some excellent group classes. There are quite a few people hanging out the dog trainer shingle these days and many are not really qualified. Basic obedience and beginning agility come to mind as excellent choices for young hiking dogs, as you will be working together under the guidance of someone with an eye for her fitness and overall body structure who can help you conditioner her appropriately. Shoot me a pm if interested....KevinJudyEmma's point about Shar Pei's being braceophals is an important one.

For rehydration support in summer, I always carry along a liter of this and a small bowl to help my dogs with the heat:

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=761&ParentCat=328