What Constitutes the Great Range?

[WalksWithBlackflies]

I'm tentatively planning on preparing a Great RANGE page on SummitPost. I think everyone can agree on the "core" mountains that run down the spine (Roostercomb, Hedgehog, Lower Wolfjaw, Upper Wolfjaw, Armstrong, Gothics, Saddleback, Basin, and Marcy). However, although not part of the spine, Haystack is usually considered part of the Range. This begs to question... if Haystack is included, what not Sawteeth? Furthermore, Skylight, Redfield, Gray, and Snow appear to be part of the spine, but are typically not included.

IMO, all of these peaks should be included in the Great Range group, with a distinction made of the classic peaks which usually constitute the Range traverse hike.

Opinions?

 

[Rik]

I'm tentatively planning on preparing a Great RANGE page on SummitPost. I think everyone can agree on the "core" mountains that run down the spine (Roostercomb, Hedgehog, Lower Wolfjaw, Upper Wolfjaw, Armstrong, Gothics, Saddleback, Basin, and Marcy). However, although not part of the spine, Haystack is ususally considered part of the Range. This begs to question... if Haystack is included, what not Sawteeth? Furthermore, Skylight, Redfield, Gray, and Snow appear to be part of the spine, but are typically not included.

IMO, all of these peaks should be included in the Great Range group, with a distinction made of the classic peaks which ususally constitue the Range traverse hike.

Opinions?

I think Haystack is more a part of the range than Marcy.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

While Haystack is probably not part of the Great range, it is frequently part of a Great Range hike.

It can be argued that Sawteeth is just a bump on Gothics, and thus, is part of the range.

The thing, however, is what people consider to be the great range, and a great range hike. You aren't going to change that, no matter what the geological facts are.

 

[lumberzac]

I'll throw in some more confusion.

Geologically specking it could be argued that Armstong is not part of the Great Range due to the fact that the rock that makes up the mountain is different form the rock of the rest of the range.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

lumberzac - Interesting. Care to elborate? If nothing else, it'll make a good sidenote for my page.

 

[Tom Rankin]

... Opinions?

It's your web page! Do whatever you want!

Speaking of bumps, did anyone mention Pyramid yet ?

 

[AntlerPeak]

I'll throw in some more confusion.

Geologically specking it could be argued that Armstong is not part of the Great Range due to the fact that the rock that makes up the mountain is different form the rock of the rest of the range.

Which begs the question, if Gothics and Upper Wolf Jaw are considered part of the Great Range, how then can Armstrong be excluded? It is conviently sandwiched between them and part of a connecting ridge.

 

[rhihn]

Although trailless, isn't Gooseberry Mt. also considered to be a part of the Great Range?

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

For the time-being, I'm not including "bumps" such as Pyramid, Gooseberry, McDonnell, and Little Nippletop.

 

[lumberzac]

The summit of Armstrong, as well as Giant, are made of syenite gneiss, the rest of the High Peaks are made of metanorthosite. The reason for this difference is linked to the origin of the Adirondack Mountains themselves.

Much of the rock that we see in the High Peaks and the Adirondacks in general was formed about 1 billion years ago as the basement rock to a very large mountain range that would rival the size of the Himalayas. The rock we see today was miles below the surface, where it was metamorphisized. Over time these mountains eroded away and other geologic events happened, such as the European plate colliding with the North American plate. These events cracked the bedrock forming faults. These faults didn’t necessarily follow the arrangement of ridges and valleys of the ancient mountain range(s). The faults were then filled by magma forming igneous rocks. Much of this rock lay dormant while other geological events were happening, such as the formation of the Appalachian Mountains. Some time in the Tertiary Period (approximately 30million years ago) something caused and uplift (perhaps a hot spot) which pushed the bedrock towards the surface (this is still happening). Over time erosion; in particular glacial erosion, carved out the softer rock inside the faults leaving the harder metamorphic rock behind, which are the ranges we see today.

The different rock in Armstrong is because of the way the metamorphic rock was formed. A very weak argument could be made that Armstrong is not part of the Great Range because it doesn’t have the same geological makeup as the other mountains. But using the more general definition of mountain range, “is a group of mountains bordered by lowlands” (http://www.answers.com/mountain+range&r=67) Armstrong is part of the same mountain range. One could also argue that Armstrong is part of the Great Range, because the same uplift and erosion patterns that formed the other mountains are the same that formed Armstrong as well. Using that same argument, Roostercomb, Snow, Hedgehog, Lower Wolfjaw, Upper Wolfjaw, Armstrong, Gothics, Sawteeth, Saddleback, Gooseberry, Basin, Haystack, Bartlett Ridge, Little Marcy, Marcy, Gray, Skylight, Redfield, Little Nippletop, McDonnel, and Allen would all be part of the Great Range, as there is no significant lowlands that separate the mountains.

I’m sure I missed a lot in my explanation and my regular hiking partner, who is a geologist, could explain it a lot better. This website is also helpful: http://gretchen.geo.rpi.edu/roecker/nys/adir_txt.html

 

[lumberzac]

For myself I view the Great Range as ending on Haystack. Marcy, Little Marcy, Gray, Skylight, and Redfield are part of there own separate group. The divide from the Great Range is at the col between Haystack and Marcy, where the Phelps Trail meets the Range Trail. I do consider Sawteeth and Snow as part of the Range, but as spurs off of the main ridge..

 

[Chip]

I don't know if this helps;

"The Great Range is a ridge of precambrian metanorthosite that runs from Mt. Marcy northeastward to the Wolfjaws. The Great Range was extensively modified by Pleistocene glaciation, and cirques are clearly visible on the flanks of Armstrong, Gothics, and Saddleback, whose summits form horn peaks and arêtes that have been smoothed by subsequent erosion. The bare rock slide on Gothics is the steep headwall of a great cirque. The Great Range is bounded by 2 parallel fault valleys. Johns
Brook runs through the fault valley to the NW of the Range and the fault SE of the Great Range is occupied by the East Branch of the Ausable River."

 

[timmus]

Thanks lumberzac for this Geology class. Very Interesting.

It should remind us why mountains deserves our respect : they were on earth way before us, and will remain way after humanity destroyed itself. We are actually just an episode in the mountain history...Probably the most unpleasant period, from the mountain point of view

 

[IndianChris]

ahh lumberzac, if I may add my own humble opinion - the uplift you say beginning 30 million years ago is likely due to isostatic rebound. After all of the exposed rocks were worn away, the removed weight allows the continent to bounce back up from the mantle giving us the increased elevation.

 

[lumberzac]

ahh lumberzac, if I may add my own humble opinion - the uplift you say beginning 30 million years ago is likely due to isostatic rebound. After all of the exposed rocks were worn away, the removed weight allows the continent to bounce back up from the mantle giving us the increased elevation.

That’s quite possible. I’m not a geologist nor do I pretend to be one. Most of my knowledge is based from my hiking partner and the website I lined in my earlier post. The one thing I’m sure of is that the experts in the field don’t really know what is causing the uplift, but they have some ideas. One of them is the hot spot theory, another would be isostatic rebound as you posted, and I’m sure there are quite a few other theories. If nothing else I find it all quite interesting.

 

[MattC]

I have no answers, but I have more questions, if that helps.
Interesting stuff from Lumberzac and Indian Chris. Aside from the differences in Armstrong's summit cap, there are no other significant geological differences between the Great Range and the rest of the ADK High Peaks?

If in fact there are no other major differences, then it seems perhaps Skylight, Redfield, etc. are worthy of inclusion, as per Zac's second post. As he points out, there are no significant lowlands between any of the peaks he lists, even arguably Allen.

It seems then that the inclusion of some peaks and not others is then a rather arbitrary decision based on hiking routes. Not that there's anything wrong w/ that, particularly since the original question here pertains to a web page on a site for hikers/peakbaggers.

My other question is this-does anyone know who originally coined the term "Great Range?" Was it Colvin? Phelps? On of those other guys w/ a peak named after them? Whoever it was, does anyone know which peaks that person originally included?

Matt

 

[mavs00]

The science that Zac and IChris state is WELL documented in Howard and Elizabeth Jaffe's truly classic 1986 work Geology of the Adirondack High Peaks. It's one that is very often cited when talking about Geology in the High Peaks, It's also one of the driest reads I've ever forced myself through, but I did learn quite a bit.

I've had a "HIKERS GREAT RANGE" page on my website for a few years, in it, I include 9 High Peaks (and 3 lesser peaks), including Haystack, Marcy and Sawteeth.

Geologically, I believe that the data I've seen Includes Haystack and Sawteeth, but not Marcy (go figure on that one). who know which is right.

 

[randomscooter]

I've had a "HIKERS GREAT RANGE" page on my website for a few years, in it, I include 9 High Peaks (and 3 lesser peaks), including Haystack, Marcy and Sawteeth.

Geologically, I believe that the data I've seen Includes Haystack and Sawteeth, but not Marcy (go figure on that one). who know which is right.

Geology, shmeology I'd add Skylight and Gray, and subtract Sawteeth, from your list Tim. Why? Because those ten peaks make an outstanding 26.2 mile trail run from the Loj to KV. That's all the reason I need.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

.....Because those ten peaks make an outstanding 26.2 mile trail run from the Loj to KV.

And that's what really does it. What people do.

Think of this. Imagine there were no trails. How would you lay out a trail, and what would you include/exclude?

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Hey everybody... thanx for your input. I have prepared the following summary. I used to believe that the Great Range extended from Roostercomb to Haystack, but changed my mind while "researching" this topic. I'm sure that this interpretation can and will be questioned, but will serve as a good baseline resource for someone who isn't familiar with the Range. Note that this describes the RANGE ONLY, not the "classic" hiking traverse of the Range (to be drafted next week). Regarding the hike, I think I'm gonna define it as Roostercomb to Marcy (inc. Haystack), with Snow, Sawteeth, and Skylight as "extra-credit" mountains. I'm not going to include any bushwhack or herdpath hiking.

"The northern portion of the Range is typically called the Lower Range, and consists of the following mountains: Snow, Roostercomb, Hedgehog, Lower Wolfjaw, Upper Wolfjaw, Armstrong, Gothics, Pyramid, and Sawteeth. The Lower Range is well-defined by natural borders to the southwest (valley containing the East Branch of the Ausable River, and Upper and Lower Ausable Lakes), northeast (Ausable Valley including NYS Route 73, and northwest (Johns Brook Valley).

The middle portion, consisting of Gooseberry, Saddleback, Basin, Haystack, Little Haystack, and Mt. Marcy, is commonly referred to as the Upper Range. The northwest and southeastern borders of the Upper Range are still well defined by the Johns Brook and Upper Ausable Lake valleys, respectively. Some believe that Haystack is not part of the Great Range. In the author’s opinion, this mindset is erroneous, since Basin is directly connected to Mt. Haystack, not Mt. Marcy.

Many others believe that the Great Range ends at Mt. Haystack, and does not include Mt. Marcy. The borders of this southern section of the Great Range are quite vague. One reason for this vagueness is Panther Gorge, a deep ravine located between Haystack and Marcy to the northwest, and Haystack and Allen to the southwest. This chasm can appear to divide two separate mountain ranges, but if the reader views a topographic map at 1:100,000 scale, a clear “spine” can be seen extending from Hedgehog to Allen. The spine just has some severe scoliosis near Panther Gorge. Therefore, the author has included the following southern mountains in the Great Range group: Little Marcy, Marcy, Gray, Skylight, Redfield, Little Nippletop, McDonnell, and Allen.

In the author’s opinion, topography and/or distance exclude Tabletop, Colden, Cliff, and North River Mountains from the Great Range group."