Which digital SLR for landscapes?

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dvbl

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Looking to get a digital SLR camera. For those who hike with one, which one do you own? I don't care about weight, and I'm not interested in a point-and-shoot vs SLR debate. I'm definitely getting a DSLR. I just want to know which one you would suggest for landscapes. For example, Nikon D70, Canon Digital Rebel, others...? Pros...cons?
 
dvbl said:
Looking to get a digital SLR camera. For those who hike with one, which one do you own? I don't care about weight, and I'm not interested in a point-and-shoot vs SLR debate. I'm definitely getting a DSLR. I just want to know which one you would suggest for landscapes. For example, Nikon D70, Canon Digital Rebel, others...? Pros...cons?

FWIW, the Canon Digital Rebel produces pictures which are 3072 x 2048 (and other sizes), which is a 1.5:1 aspect ratio. This makes them wider than a normal display, but it could be good for landscapes. I lug it to the summit on quite a few of my hikes. It's given me very good results.
 
If you don't care about weight...

That’s a big question.
There are lots of variables like:
Do you have any lenses already?
How much do you want to spend?

Given an unlimited bank account and a strong back to carry it, I’d go for the Nikon D2x (12.4 Megapixels) (2.5 pounds body only)
The Nikon D200 (10.2 Megapixel DX Format) is cheaper and lighter, but still a nice camera.
I have a D2H which isn’t as good for landscapes as it is for sports. For example it has an 8fps motor drive, but it's only about 5 Megapixels.


If weight isn’t a concern, this on would be sweet: (A 110-pound, 6-foot camera that produces what experts say are some of the highest-resolution landscape photographs ever made.")
Gigapixel Project
This is a detail shot:
http://www.cliffordross.com/R1/R1-detail.html


Here's another cool link:
http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/gigapixel.htm
 
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I just bought the wife a Nikon D50 for mother's day. I looked at quite a few "reviews" online, and narrowed it down to the Olympus Evolt500 and the Nikon D50. No, the budget was not ulimited. :)

Almost every review I read praised the Nikon as the beginner's DSLR, but the Olympus got some great reviews as well. I chose the Nikon for the faster start-up time. It's almost instant, and I wanted the ability to capture my fleet-of-foot toddler in action. The Olympus was noticeably slower to turn on in the store, but if you can live with the ~2 second start-up (likely not a huge issue with landscape stills?), the Olympus offers more mega pixels in same price range.

DigitalPhotoReview.com was very helpful. You might try posting a question on their forums page. It seems to get loads of activity.

Sorry I can't be of more help.
Smitty
 
For landscapes (or most everything) which dSLR you buy isn't going to make as much of a difference as which lenses you buy and how you use your camera. Certainly you can pay more or less depending on how much camera you want, but if you are doing this for web use and 8x10 to 11x17 the camera body will not be your limiting factor.

The two leaders in dSLRs are Nikon and Canon, both have a few models to choose from. Olympus, Minolta/Konica, and Pentax also make good models.

If this is mainly for landscapes you'll probably end up buying a new lens regardless of what you currently have. Nearly all dSLRs use a CCD that is smaller than a 35mm negative, so there is a crop factor on lenses, usually around 1.5x. So a 100mm lens on a film SLR will act like a 150mm lens on a dSLR. That's great for telephoto but lousy for wide angle, which you'll want for your landscapes.

While there are folks here who know a lot about cameras, I'd check DCResource and DPReview for detailed reviews and comments.

-dave-
 
David Metsky said:
...which dSLR you buy isn't going to make as much of a difference as which lenses you buy...
I have been thinking about a DSLR for some time, and found this recent atricle at CNET interesting.
 
don't buy a kit!

David Metsky said:
If this is mainly for landscapes you'll probably end up buying a new lens regardless of what you currently have. Nearly all dSLRs use a CCD that is smaller than a 35mm negative, so there is a crop factor on lenses, usually around 1.5x. So a 100mm lens on a film SLR will act like a 150mm lens on a dSLR. That's great for telephoto but lousy for wide angle, which you'll want for your landscapes. -dave-

Besides the 1.5 ratio issue, the lens that comes with most/all cameras in this range are less than desireable. I recommend buying a body and choosing a lens specifically for landscape, based on the ratio and quality.

I have a Canon Digital Rebel, and I love it. The Canon lens that comes with the kit is inferior. I use a Sigma 24mm - 70mm. IMO, no lens will work better.

...and you need a polarizer!!!
 
sardog1 said:
Just a little update -- Konica Minolta quit manufacturing cameras on March 31, so you might want to think about the life of an orphan camera owner . . .
True, but they haven't gotten out of the lens business, and Sony is going to continue making dSLRs using their technology and format, so there will be ongoing development. I'd read up on what is happening and decide based on that, but you can find a great deal as well.

-dave-
 
David Metsky said:
Olympus, Minolta/Konica, and Pentax also make good models.
-dave-

1 factor on Pentax: they use AA batteries- this is 1) Bad, because they're much heavier & don't last as long as proprietary batteries like in Canons & Nikons; 2) Good, because you can always buy more IF you're close to a convenience store.

1 bad factor on Olympus: You have to buy xD memory cards, which can be harder to find if one goes bad at the last moment (and more expensive) than the sd & compact flash cards used by Canon & Nikon.
 
Dave Metsky makes an excellent point about the 1:5 focal length muliplication factor (for lack of a better term) on lenses designed for 35mm film when they are used on many of the digital SLRs. (I am familiar with some of the Nikon line.) Thus, as Dave says, when used on a DSLR a 100mm lens for your 35mm film SLR will behave like a 150mm lens does on the film camera. Confusing and vexing as this can be when you first make the switch, after a while you can get used to it.

One of my favorite “landscape” lenses for a 35mm film camera is the 85mm focal length -- a short “telephoto.” (The visual effect produced by this lens on film would be replicated by about a 55-60mm lens on a Nikon DSLR.) What I like about this focal length is, it produces an image that very closely resembles the “edited” image we see with our eyes. It looks very natural. This is an old trick borrowed from the great landscape photogs of the past.

Using a lens in this focal length for landscapes helps avoid what I call “wide angle disappointment.” That happens when a short lens has taken in a dramatically broad vista, but the stunning details that made the scene so wonderful in real life are so small in the picture that the photographic rendition loses much or most of its punch.

I regularly use Nikon D1H and D2Hs cameras in my (newspaper) work these days. The D2Hs is a speed demon (both in shutter lag time and frames-per-second) that nearly equals the capababilities of my Nikon F5 film camera. The D2Hs has a better autofocus system than the F5. Our shop practice (for newspaper work) is to set the D2Hs for max speed and relatively low image quality, and it still will produce excellent 11 X 14 inch prints and decent 16 X 20s. So I’m not at all persuaded that total megapixels is the end-all-be-all in this game. As others have observed, I rather suspect that lens quality and how steadily you hold the camera are more important factors.

As a great wide angle lens for your digital Nikon SLR, I recommend Nikon’s 17-35mm f/2.8 ED-IF AF-S workhorse. It is big, heavy and pricey, but a superb zoom lens for both film and digital. I also would look very closely at Nikon’s 17-55mm G f/2.8 ED-IF AF-S DX lens, which is made specifically for the digital cameras (lacks coverage for the full 35mm film format). It takes in the wide-angle to 85mm (35mm format equivalent) landscape lens range. It is less expensive than the 17-35mm zoom.

One of the most serious limitations I’ve found with the digital SLRs I’ve used (Nikons) is their rechargeable batteries. Nothing works when the battery goes flat, so meticulous “battery management” is a must. Our newspaper shop uses “pool” gear shared by several shooters, and I’ve been burned on assignments several times by discharged batteries. Some of these problems likely would go away with single users, but a word of caution about batteries remains in order.

Right now, looking at a digital SLR camera body for personal use I would seriously consider a Nikon D200. This body probably is a step up in robustness from the D-50 or D-70s. It also can be set up to accept AA size batteries -- a good backup to the regular rechargeables and an attractive option based on my experience.

G.
 
I have the Canon Digital Rebel XT and love it. For most of my hikes I usually just use my Canon Powershot G2. Built in panorama mode for aligning successive shots makes it great for landscapes.

When I stitch them together I use a program called Panorama Factory that does a much better job than anything supplied with the cameras.

This is a pan containing 3 images from the G2 of the Bear Mtn bridge area looking back from the East Side of Bear Mtn on the Major Welch trail. It' currently featured on a friends home page here:

http://www.stevegalla.com/

Kevin
 
Qtvr

There have been some good comments so far on this thread.
Another excellent tool is VR Toolbox, a software product that lets you create 360 degree QTVR scenes. It is a bit pricey, but works well. I don’t have any landscape examples yet, but here is one of where I work: QTVR sample
 
I have been very happy with my Canon 5D for landscapes - the sensor seems to handle high contrast situations quite a bit better than the Rebel XT. And for what it's worth, it weighs about a pound less and is quite a bit less $$$ than the Nikon D2X ( $2700 after rebate at B&H Photo vs. $3950 for the Nikon)
 
Grumpy said:
One of my favorite “landscape” lenses for a 35mm film camera is the 85mm focal length -- a short “telephoto.” (The visual effect produced by this lens on film would be replicated by about a 55-60mm lens on a Nikon DSLR.) What I like about this focal length is, it produces an image that very closely resembles the “edited” image we see with our eyes. It looks very natural. This is an old trick borrowed from the great landscape photogs of the past.

Using a lens in this focal length for landscapes helps avoid what I call “wide angle disappointment.” That happens when a short lens has taken in a dramatically broad vista, but the stunning details that made the scene so wonderful in real life are so small in the picture that the photographic rendition loses much or most of its punch.
I, on the other hand, like my 28mm (35mm film equiv) wide angle (film SLR) lens for broad vistas. My current digital shortest focal lenth is ~38mm (35mm film equiv), which I find disappointing for large scenes. (This is purely a personal style issue--others may reasonably differ.)

One of the most serious limitations I’ve found with the digital SLRs I’ve used (Nikons) is their rechargeable batteries. Nothing works when the battery goes flat, so meticulous “battery management” is a must.
100% agreement here. I want standard, readily available batteries so I can replace them anywhere and have spares without breaking the bank. Also kind of hard to charge the batteries on an extended hike... This pretty much means AAs (or AAAs) to me--I use NiMHs or lithiums in my digital camera. Also, one is at risk for being left with a useless camera if the proprietary battery wears out and replacements are no longer available.

BTW, Lion rechargables degrade whether you use them or not.

lx93 said:
1 bad factor on Olympus: You have to buy xD memory cards, which can be harder to find if one goes bad at the last moment (and more expensive) than the sd & compact flash cards used by Canon & Nikon.
Agree here--I perfer to the more common and readily available memory card formats (CF and sd). Cost, availability, obsolescence, etc.

Doug
 
I agree with what Dave and the others said. However, you need to provide some more details if you want specific recommendations. Do you own SLR lenses already? Will you be shooting anything other than landscapes with the camera? What is your price range?

- darren
 
darren said:
I agree with what Dave and the others said. However, you need to provide some more details if you want specific recommendations. Do you own SLR lenses already? Will you be shooting anything other than landscapes with the camera? What is your price range?

- darren

I do not own any SLR lenses. This will be primarily for landscapes and (hopefully) wildlife. I'd like to keep the damage under $1,000. Currently I'm leaning toward the Nikon D50 plus one telephoto lens (up to 200mm) and a polarizing filter.
 
dvbl said:
I do not own any SLR lenses. This will be primarily for landscapes and (hopefully) wildlife. I'd like to keep the damage under $1,000. Currently I'm leaning toward the Nikon D50 plus one telephoto lens (up to 200mm) and a polarizing filter.

You asked, so here goes . . .

With that budget I'd look seriously at a Nikon D70s kit, listed by B&H photo in new York at about $1000 with Nikon's 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 G-ED-IF-AF-S-DX lens and a 1GB memory card.

The lens is specifically for digital cameras and not recommended for use on 35mm film cameras. It has received excellent reviews. Nikon says the 35mm equivalent focal length range of the lens is 27-105mm, an ideal range for your landscape photo aspirations. At the long end it will render about 2X magnification compared to a "normal" lens.

Save up your shekels to buy a good longer telephoto zoom for the wildlife work later on. Put immediate extra money into a decent UV filter to protect the front element of the lens and a decent case to protect your kit while hiking. Seriously consider investing in a backup battery and additional memory card, as well.

Disclaimer: I recommend the Nikon line only because (in my experience) it is good equipment that I am familiar with, not because I think it is vastly superior to Brand X in some way.

Have fun with whatever you decide to acquire.

G.
 
dvbl said:
I do not own any SLR lenses. This will be primarily for landscapes and (hopefully) wildlife. I'd like to keep the damage under $1,000. Currently I'm leaning toward the Nikon D50 plus one telephoto lens (up to 200mm) and a polarizing filter.

I've been shooting Canon for years, so I am partial to Canon but you can't go wrong with either a Canon or a Nikon. Just get Canon or Nikon glass to go with it. I have the Canon 20D, but it is a little over your price range. B&H has a the Canon Digital Rebel XT kit on sale for $645. That is the 8MP body and the kit Canon 18-55mm lens.

You can then get a 1 GB compact flash card for $52.

Throw in a Canon 75-300 zoom lens for $179 and a Hoya 58mm circular polarizer filter for $70 that you can use on both lenses and you are off to the races (or the trails). The lenses will cover from 18mm-300mm, which in 35mm film terms is 29mm - 480mm with a small gap from 55-75mm (88 - 120mm in 35mm film). It would be a great beginner set up. The 75-300 lens is one of canon's cheaper lenes, but you can still take decent pictures with it (sample 1, sample 2, and sample 3). I don't have the kit 18-55mm lens, but it has gotten a lot of good reviews. I borrowed one and took some decent shots with it. So, a full set up for $946. That leaves you some cash for a case. I like the LowePro topload zoom lineup.

Tim Seaver has the Rebel XT and he will vouch that it is a very capable little DSLR. He took all of the winter 48 < 10 days shots with it. He used the Canon 10-22mm lens, which I also have and love. It's expensive though ($700) and would blow your budget.

Questions?

- darren
 
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