Winter one-day Presidential Traverse vs. cycling century or running a marathon?

[msolar]

A few of us are comparing a few winter options and considering a one-day Presidential Traverse among the alternatives. Most of them have done it before but I'm trying to gauge my fitness level since I haven't had time to log many hiking miles this winter - what would be the equivalent difficulty for a trail run or road bike? (e.g. would cycling a century or running a trail marathon be comparable?)

Thanks

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I would go with trail marathon. For me, a century on a road bike is far easier than the Presi Traverse, but I do ride 4-5000 miles per year.

In 2012, I did 2x100miles plus a another 5-6 in the 75+ range, compared with 0 PTs.

Tim

 

[NH Tramper]

Maybe like doing Owl's Head twice in one day. That would be more miles with far less elevation gain, but just as demanding I think (more so psychologically). We did the Bonds, Zealand, and Hale in a day very recently and are planning a Presi traverse this week so we have wondered the same thing. We figure we're in for an epic adventure that will ask for an awful lot from us physically (and mentally to a degree). The Bonds hike was 24.5 miles with the road walk, with only had 6800 feet of gain. The Presis will be bit shorter but will involve a lot more climbing, on a more difficult path (I hope this snow sticks up there so it won't be so bony -- but we will get a direct report from a friend's contact at the Observatory right before the hike). There is also the demand of the cold (which might not be too bad this week) and exposure. It's really hard to compare it to something accurately.

We plan to have a couple of bailout points along the way with car spots. That way if we find we're not able to complete the journey, or the weather turns to crap, we can call it and head down. You might want to consider doing the same.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

It also depends on your century and marathon course. I've done back-to-back centuries over a weekend and felt fine on Monday. I've done sub-5 hour centuries over rolling terrain. I rode from Nashua, NH to Brewster, MA (146 miles) in 7 hours (plus 2 10-minute breaks.) I had trouble walking for a day or two after the PT (it was in summer.) Hills, temps, humidity, speed, pacing, etc., all make it a challenging comparison. I have never been much of a runner, if that helps you figure out where I am coming from. In the back of my mind, I'd like to try the Pemi Loop someday but conditions would have to be perfect - cool, dry and not too sunny.

I routinely ride 40-60 miles without any post-ride effects. I would work up to 100 by doing 50-60, then 60-75, 70-80, and then the century. I'd have to do something similar for the PT - over 2 or 3 weekends the 2-3 weekends before. My recovery time is not what it once was either, so your age, general fitness, recovery regimen, etc., will all figure in.

HTH,
Tim

 

[Maineman]

I find that amazing views (like the traverse) make a long hike seems at least 1/3 shorter!

 

[peakbagger]

I dotn think you can make a direct comparison as a winter presi has widely varying conditions relative to a running or riding on a road. If the trails are not broken out and there hasnt been wind scouring along the ridge a one day traverse can be darn near impossible. In the right condtiions its can be done faster than summer. Sure runners and bikers can get hot/cold weather and rain but the underlying surface doesnt change a lot. It can be windy down low along a road but nothing matches the potential winds up high on a presi.

 

[hikerbrian]

OP: That's a very difficult question to answer because the physical difficulty depends COMPLETELY on weather/trail conditions, and on the amount of risk you are willing to assume (i.e. how much contingency gear you carry; huts closed = longer bail outs and more water weight, too). There's also the psychological challenge, which you don't ask about and so I won't spend much time addressing, but suffice to say, this is weather-dependent and there really isn't a trail run or ride that compares when conditions are non-ideal.

Some possible scenarios:
-Trails broken out, wind under 50, decent visibility; large puffy coat, insulated pants and Z-rest your only safety gear (so, 15 lb pack): very similar to any trail marathon that has 10K' elevation gain. This represents the ideal case.
-Winds 50-60, visibility not great, some route finding required due to blowing snow, you carry more safety gear because of conditions (maybe 25 lb pack): substantially harder than trail marathon. More like pemi-loop, perhaps, just in terms of physical effort. This represents a more likely scenario, and IMO very few would complete this route in these conditions.

The people I know who have been successful doing this as a single-day route in winter have had the flexibility to wait until the weather is perfect, and I mean Perfect. With trails broken out, not a cloud in the sky, no wind, longish days, and relative warmth, this route is not very difficult. In normal conditions in mid-winter, keeping reasonable safety margins, very few could pull it off. Hope that's helpful!

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Conditions are certainly a large factor, but there is some base amount one can assess to the PT under ideal conditions - the amount below which you could not go. I.e., 19+ miles, 8000+ feet is inescapable, even in ideal conditions. Beyond that, more challenging conditions add to the difficulty for sure. In assessing one's fitness, it is not an unreasonable question to compare it to two known baselines.

For the record, I know someone who has done 48 consecutive months of PTs, including after donating a kidney. There were a handful of people out doing it on Friday (which admittedly was "the perfect day" to do it.) That's not to say it is ever easy, of course, even in ideal conditions.

Tim

 

[hikerbrian]

Tim - I agree. My assumption is that the OP is well aware that the hike is 19+ miles with 8000'+ elevation gain, and that if he is attempting it in Winter, he has some idea of what that profile entails, so I didn't think it would be terribly helpful to essentially restate that. Instead, I've tried to provide some context around the different levels of challenge related to conditions, which I feel is the more important and more difficult-to-answer question. It's also the question that we at VFTT might be able to provide some insight, beyond "the book time for 19 miles and 8k' elevation gain is blah blah blah..."

BTW, I expect that anyone who has done 48 consecutive months of PT's 1) has some flexibility, and 2) possesses some things that the OP does not. But, I would love to hear about each of the December, January, and February PT's. Does s/he post here?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Likewise, my assumption is that if one is actually considering doing it winter, we might assume (and make ass out of u and me) that it's not their first winter hike, and they understand the variability in conditions.

The short answer is (as always) "It Depends". You can't really compare the PT, century bike rides, and 26 mile trail marathons The devil is, as always, in the details. For me, as a cyclist, the hardest centuries I have ever done are still easier than the easiest PT (I've only done one) by any common measurement - time, effort, calories, recovery time, sleep lost, etc. I can imagine consuming similar quantities of water during each. If you are a trail runner, then it's probably easier for you to pull off the PT than if you are a cyclist. If you are a hiker, you might not be able to conceive of riding 100 miles (or more) in one trip. I've done it dozens of times. That said, even I struggle with the idea of racing 100+ miles per day for a three-week grand tour.

As for the PTx48 months... I don't think s/he posts here and I am intentionally not revealing his/her name...

Tim

 

[NH Tramper]

Weather sure can be a factor. Based on what I'm hearing our PT is going to be pushed back a day or two.

 

[ADKnBVI]

I have done a dozen trail marathons and only one winter Presi traverse. The traverse is way harder. The miles cannot be compared to walking on the wilderness trail or Owl's head. Unless we get a ton of snow, the walk thru the northerns is rocky and tedious. I did Monroe thru Madison on Friday and I am still sore. If this is someones first winter traverse, it should only be attempted in new perfect weather. Bring lots of to drink and wear your sunscreen!

 

[Tim Seaver]

Surface conditions can be almost as important as the weather. Just the change from last Friday to yesterday was pretty substantial - Friday was not too bad on the Gulfside, but yesterday it was full of huge, energy-sucking soft drifts - just from the minor snow event we had. And the snow depth is so low, you are rarely above the rocks for long. Nothing at all like the winters where you can dance across huge frozen snowfields in any direction you want wearing crampons and sinking 1/4"!

 

[Mike P.]

That has to depend on your fitness level. never done the winter traverse but did do a summer one day traverse. Done other 25-30 mile days doing the 1/2 Pemi traverse twice (Franconias & the 2"G" peaks, down Twin Brook & later that year, Bonds, & Twins & Galehead, out on Twin Brook again.)

Not a bike rider anymore but was routinuely riding 10-20 miles 3x a week, max was a 60 mile day. Those two were similar I'd say. I am not or have ever been a runner, when I was much younger, I could do 7-8 miles on fairly flat terrain as a 2x a week activity. It would be far easier to get back to 60 bike ride or another summer traverse than it would to ever run a marathon, especially to get a fat body with many miles (no really, many miles & yes fat) into shape to run 26 miles. Never cared for jogging but it's the activity that drops pounds off me the quickest that I've tried & the idea of hours on a stepper, eliptical or anything inside sounds like torture. (Maybe a 10K or 1/2 if I'd ever have that as a goal)

Walk 26 miles. no problem, I've been walking on average just over 40 miles a week since Thanksgiving to try & slowly get back into shape without breaking anything. (Will add some jogging & pack carrying to the routinue as it begins to warm up & I drop a few more pounds. Hopefully I'll be ready to finish the NE 4,000 this summer - most of the longer ones left in NY. (Santanoni's, Sewards, Cliff & a couple of others)

On another thread here, the presi Traverse is looking like the third hardest after the Devil's Path & Great Range. Even in NH, I'd say the Pemi traverse is harder too. There is also the huts traverse too....

While weather plays a key in a long day of hiking anywhere, completing the Presi-traverse (especially in winter) is more dependent on weather than the others.

 

[Billy]

I vote for the hike being tougher. I've never been much of a biker. Oops, I guess the term du jour is "cyclist"...some of these folks tend to get their spandex grape smugglers in a twist if you call them "bikers". Anyway, one day a small group of us said "Hey, let's ride our bikes to Fenway Park tomorrow." And so we did. We lived in Providence, Rhode Island at the time. We didn't measure it, but it was probably within a hand grenade range of 100 miles round trip. We never thought twice about it. We started to get tired on the way home, but it wan't a huge deal. There's no way in the world we could've out of the blue just decided to do a Presidential Traverse on any given day. Yes, yes, I know RI and Mass are flat, and biking in NH would've been different, but everyone is giving little anecdotes of their limited life experiences........that's mine.

 

[sierra]

Surface conditions can be almost as important as the weather. Just the change from last Friday to yesterday was pretty substantial - Friday was not too bad on the Gulfside, but yesterday it was full of huge, energy-sucking soft drifts - just from the minor snow event we had. And the snow depth is so low, you are rarely above the rocks for long. Nothing at all like the winters where you can dance across huge frozen snowfields in any direction you want wearing crampons and sinking 1/4"!

Now that is a point worth considering, Ive done ascents of Washington that where brutal and some that where well, easy. That bullet-proof snow is gold.