Worth Bringing a Tent for Warmth?

[Periwinkle]

I'm hoping a few can chime in on this before I leave in the a.m.....

Is it worth carrying a 3 season tent just to be warmer if a shelter is available? Is there any R-value to thin tent walls?

I'm considering leaving the tent and taking a second sleeping bag (one down, one synthetic, both bags rated to 20 degrees). Temps tomorrow night will be in the mid 30's -- about my personal comfort level. My hiking buddy will be carrying a tent in case the shelter is full (Rrrrrriiiiiiiggght! Not likely this time of year ) But, we don't share a tent. I usually bring my own for me & my dog(s). I would share if I had to to survive, but it's not the norm. And it would be pretty crowded in one tent with two humans & two dogs!

Taking both the tent & the 2nd bag would push the limits of my pack and I could do without the added weight as well.

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[Papa Bear]

My experience is you are warmer in a tent than in an open shelter. If you are alone in the shelter, put the tent up inside the shelter! This is independent of your sleeping bag or bags. With the dog in there you will be even better off. My guess is the tent adds maybe 10 degrees of warmth and more if there is a breeze (more 'cause a breeze will get you in the shelter) .

The tent seems to hold the heat from your breath and body whereas in the shelter the air will cary the heat off.

Can't say how 2 sleeping bags compares to tent plus sleeping bag. But the tent plus bag may win since the second bag will be compressed (or it will compress the first bag) and you will get diminishing returns. No such problem with the tent obviously. But this is a guess since I have never used two bags. However I use a silk liner in my bag and that adds 5 - 10 degrees too.

So for me
(silk liner) + (bag) + (tent) = (warm and happy camper)

Pb

 

[Waumbek]

Likewise, I've heard the rule-of-thumb measure that a tent adds 10F. I assume more if there's more than one body in it. I never took a thermometer to test that conventional wisdom but a tent sure does help when it's windy. I don't know where you're headed but at 1200' in Franconia NH right now it's 44F outside, and the low won't be until dawn tomorrow. Conventional wisdom (again) is that each 1000' of elevation drops the temp 5F if it's not windy. Have a good trip. Stay warm.

 

[peakbagger]

Most of the sleeping bag ratings are based on the use of a tent. The tent does two things, it cuts down on any wind that might be present, which cuts down on convective heat loss and it also acts to cut down on radiant heat loss. I usually carry a bivy for a backup shelter and it probably works better than a tent for warmth (as long as its not humid out) and its easy to use in a shelter.

The other trick is to bring a nalgene bottle with a good lid, if you are expecting a cold night, heat up a water bottle just before bed, twist the top on securely and put it in the bottom of the sleeping bag, it should add at least 10 extra degrees of warmth.

 

[TCD]

But if you are interested in keeping the pack light, you have a back up plan (2 people 2 dogs in the one tent) which would kep everyone very cozy. So there's no safety issue in traveling light. I would go with the silk liner, the one bag, and plan on using the water bottle. Space blanket is back up plan #1, group hug is backup plan #2.

TCD

 

[Jaytrek57]

If you are alone in the shelter, put the tent up inside the shelter!

Um...what if I come in late at night to the shelter?

As far as the water bottle thing...well I am going to disagree. There is a chance...however small, that the water bottle could become unscrewed through your natural tossing and turning while sleeping. If your bag gets wet, esp. in winter, there is a potential for disaster.

No matter how cold, tired, whatever, change into different clothes for sleeping as oppose to what you hiked in.

Peace.

 

[sardog1]

Lean-tos and "slab camps" are usually constructed with the expectation that a largish fire will be built immediately in front of the opening. The design is intended to capture some of the radiant energy from the fire. (Take a look at old camping and hunting how-to books for examples of the art.)

Whatever were the original intentions of the folks who adopted the "slab camp" design for NE shelters, the absence of a fire these days makes them pretty cold places to sleep. All that open area in front allows any warm air generated by you to fly off into the night. And the floors are often not very tight.

A 3-season tent with a good down-to-the-ground rainfly is a much warmer design than a fire-less lean-to. The former stops a lot of the air movement that plagues the latter. (All bets are off if you sleep "under the stars" while looking up through your fly-less tent's netting roof.)

 

[Peakbagr]

Peri,

Tents are warmer from escaped body heat and respiration. Also, you miss and chilling from a breeze. A small candle lantern will add even more warmth in place of or in addition to a flashlight.

Your pooches or another person will add more degrees.

One last thing, the larger the tent, the colder it will be as the heat is more spread out and there is a larger surface area to exchange heat. Small tents warm up quicker and keep the warmth longer.

You can get away with 3 season tents in cold temps or in winter if you stay well away from treeline, high wind, and falling/drifting/blowing snow.

By the way, there are some places where erecting tents in leantos is forbidden. Part of the problem with putting one up inside a leanto, even if the site is unoccupied is because you don't know who might arrive after you've done so.

 

[MichaelJ]

Where you're going you're not likely to have wind problems, since it's not an open front - there's just a doorway. The walls are solid and windproof. Setting up a tent inside is not an option since there's a shelf inside; you can sleep up or down (I assume down, since the dogs). I would bring a small tarp to tie over the doorway. The floor is thick, whereas a tent will just be on a platform with air below. It'd be much different if the ground (and platforms) were all snow-covered thus insulating.

So you're comparing a small, vented air space (tent) versus a much larger but more solid, windproof space (shelter). I can argue it either way this time of year, but I'd just head for the shelter. I've also never had a problem with a hot Nalgene in the bag with me, except that it can make me too warm when I crawl into bed so that I fall asleep dangling out of the bag and wake up freezing until I pull it back up.

Do keep in mind that if the nights are below 32F, you'll want your water bottles in the bag with you anyway.

 

[Waumbek]

Yo, Periwinkle, take the tent, bags, hot water bottles, and the heat paks, it's 19F at 1200' in Franconia NH this morning at 8.30. Another warm-up tip: do jumping jacks before you hop into the sleeping bag with the hot water bottle for the night. Pray you don't have to get out 'til morning.

 

[TCD]

Pee bottle. Critical to your comfort in winter. Make sure the top is on well, and it's another bottle of warm water for the bottom of the bag. A little more difficult for women, but devices are sold that help with that.

 

[percious]

yuck. No pee bottle for me. I just slop on my down booties, and brave the -30 degree temps. Oh yeah. Get a pair of those down booties, they are the best!

-percious

 

[whcobbs]

Periwinkle--
you've got several options and warmth may not be the only issue. A light weight approach for a lean-to shelter is to take an impermeable vapor barrier rainsuit and wear your clothes over it inside a single synthetic sleeping bag, with some lightweight long underwear next to skin for comfort. This system will keep you warm and dry out your damp clothes, but don't do it in temps above freezing, it just isn't comfortable. The down bag with a vapor barrier liner and the damp clothes on you inside it also works. If you don't like sleeping in clothes, pay the weight penalty and take the tent. You can still use the clothes on top of the bag for extra warmth. I doubt that you need two sleeping bags.
Walt

I'm hoping a few can chime in on this before I leave in the a.m.....

Is it worth carrying a 3 season tent just to be warmer if a shelter is available? Is there any R-value to thin tent walls?

I'm considering leaving the tent and taking a second sleeping bag (one down, one synthetic, both bags rated to 20 degrees). Temps tomorrow night will be in the mid 30's -- about my personal comfort level. My hiking buddy will be carrying a tent in case the shelter is full ...

 

[Periwinkle]

Well , I didn't get to test out my theory on this one. I went with my original choice, but ended up sharing the tent, not in the shelter. But, I can say that I was pretty darn toasty in the two sleeping bags inside the tent with the other human and two dogs. There was minor condensation between the layers of my two sleeping bags, but it was worth it. Didn't hurt at all to have a St. Bernard foot warmer and a Labrador Retriever pillow.

I did wish that I had brought my down booties, but opted to save a little space and took along a pair of slipper socks -- excellent for late night nature calls, but not an option for camp chores.

Thanks for all the info. Even having to share one tent, I still don't regret leaving my tent at home.

 

[Mike D.]

Just wanted to say, I have had to set up my tent in the rain before because someone set up a large tent on the platform of a lean-to, in my opinion this is VERY inconsiderate.Use the tent or the platform-- never both.

 

[Periwinkle]

Just wanted to say, I have had to set up my tent in the rain before because someone set up a large tent on the platform of a lean-to, in my opinion this is VERY inconsiderate.Use the tent or the platform-- never both.

Yup, I've seen this as well. Legalities aside, I only think it's inconsiderate if you set up before bedtime and make yourself at home and inhospitable to later arrivals.