Drinking water in the winter??

[MEB]

I'm hoping to pick away at some more winter peaks this season and it looks like some of them are going to be fairly long, 15 miles plus or so, and I would like to do them all as day hikes. My question though is what does everyone do about drinking water in the cold weather. I'm guessing that a filter would freeze up and I surely do not want to add any extra weight to my pack by carrying additional water bottles. Melting snow would be an option but from what I've heard this is a rather long process. So, I'm curious what some of you do about water when you know you'll be out for a long day.

Thanks,
-MEB

 

[proszach]

Potable Aqua?? Very light, takes twenty minutes, and tastes great

 

[Tom Rankin]

... My question though is what does everyone do about drinking water in the cold weather. I'm guessing that a filter would freeze up and I surely do not want to add any extra weight to my pack by carrying additional water bottles. Melting snow would be an option but from what I've heard this is a rather long process. So, I'm curious what some of you do about water when you know you'll be out for a long day.

Get a couple of insulated bottle holders. Put boiling water in them before you leave. This should last all day under most conditions.

Buy a thermos. A good thermos will keep liquid hot for many hours.

Another trick that works is to carry the bottle against your skin, or as close to it as possible. I have pants with pockets that can hold a full size nalgene bottle. Depending on the placement of the pockets, this can be a little awkward, but it does keep the bottle from freezing.

You might already know this, but snow takes much more energy to warm up in your body than cold water, so don't eat it unless you really have to.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

Potable Aqua?? Very light, takes twenty minutes, and tastes great

Contact time for these types of chemicals is highly variable. The contact time for water near freezing can be much, much longer than 20 minutes and usually more than one or two tabs are needed.

but snow takes much more energy to warm up in your body than cold water, so don't eat it unless you really have to.

This is due to "latent heat". But it is very useful if you are overheating because of being overdressed. Far less useful if you are suffering from hypothermia. Of course if you are overheating (sweating) from being overdressed then take some layers off.

Keith

 

[David Metsky]

Potable Aqua?? Very light, takes twenty minutes, and tastes great

Not in winter, it takes much longer to work on cold water. Figure at least 40 minutes, and you may need two tablets per liter.

I genrally carry 3 liters in summer or winter. Insulated water bottle jackets, thermos flasks, or just burying the spare water bottle in amongst the extra clothes in the pack seems to work fairly well.

-dave-

 

[sli74]

I do exactly as Tom Rankin has suggested.

2 nalgenes of boiling hot water inside water bottle insulators.
1 bottle of hot water, not in an insulator, I start drinking from this one.
1 thermos with hot soup or chai in it

I carry 1 less bottle for shorter dayhikes.

Stove, fuel and time required to melt snow is not worth it.

I also chug a lot of water at the car before I start out.

sli74

 

[Chip]

I surely do not want to add any extra weight to my pack by carrying additional water bottles. -MEB

3 liters of hot water and gator aid is probably what I'd carry for that, which weighs about 7 pounds with insulated containers. Fortunately the load gets progressively lighter through out the day.
I tend to over-pack, so I could be carrying a filter and stove as well.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

You might already know this, but snow takes much more energy to warm up in your body than cold water, so don't eat it unless you really have to.

Well, when you "HAVE" to, is most likely the time that you should not. Eat it when you are well fed, and dumping clothes, because you are generating heat, not when you are cold, wet, and tired.

 

[DougPaul]

The OR bottle parkas for wide-mouth Nalgene bottles are quite popular. (I have several myself.)

Use wide-mouth bottles--much easier to deal with if the opening freezes up. If you store a bottle upside down, ice will tend to form at the bottom of the bottle rather than at the opening. If a lid becomes solidly frozen, thaw by dipping into hot water--requires a stove and pot (or perhaps a chemical hand-warmer.)

You are correct: filters will freeze (and some will be damaged by freezing).

For most day trips, one can simply carry enough water for the day, but for longer trips, replenishment will be necessary. Streams still flow in winter, but it may be a challange/dangerous to get the water. The same treatment issues in winter as in summer alpply. Chemical is easiest (generally the required contact time is longer in the cold), boiling still works. If there are no appropriate open streams, a stove and pot will be required to melt snow/ice.

You require similar amounts of water in winter and summer--the winter air is very dry and you may sweat less, but you will breath out more water. The thirst mechanism is also dulled by the cold (if you are thirsty, you are already mildly dehydrated)--one should drink by dicipline and control the amount by urine quantity and color.

Doug

 

[Reekee]

Plan Slurpy

Take a warm drink and replace with snow at every sip. When you put water in, shake the bottle to mix. At the end of the day you may have a plan slurpy which is why they invented that little cap inserts for your bottle. It's best to get snow from trees or bushes as it will have less debris. Enjoy, winter is the best kept secret. So don't tell anyone. Reekee

 

[DougPaul]

Take a warm drink and replace with snow at every sip. When you put water in, shake the bottle to mix. At the end of the day you may have a plan slurpy which is why they invented that little cap inserts for your bottle. It's best to get snow from trees or bushes as it will have less debris.

While this extends your water supply, it carries the full risks of contaminated snow. Probably increases the chance of getting some bad snow since you are picking some up from many locations.

Make your own choice as to your risk levels--just be aware of the actual risks of whatever you do.

I simply put room-temp tap water in insulated wide-mouth bottles. Only ran out once (at about 15hrs on a 17hr "day" ski). Have very little trouble with the water freezing.

Doug

 

[Doc McPeak]

MEB, winter hiking means a heavier pack. That seems to be the law. But that also means you'll be a stronger hiker next summer.

I usually sweat as much or more in winter, and drink as much or more in winter to coincide. Crucial to stay hydrated as it can lead to cramps, hypothermia, and more winter unpleasantries. You've heard some great tricks here, but like me, you probably don't want to lug the extra weight around. In a lot of cases you won't have to. On the vast majority of my long hikes in winter, the route will be a there and back. Summer involves more loops and traverses, but winter often means less daylight, and wanting a nice packed trail and already scouted route for the return. (ADKS have longer approaches so the Whites may be different)

You can stash those insulated bottles along the way for your return. Put boiling water in a coolie bottle, then in a little plastic store bag, bury them off the trail a bit (extra insulation against the cold, think snowcave for your water) take note of the spot, and they will be waiting for you just when you need them on your return.

You'll also learn how to gauge your needs. Fresh wet snow will be a killer and you will need a lot more water. A perfect bluebird day over packed trails may only need 2L, and some hot cocoa. I also use my hydro system inside the whole inner pockets of my softshell for every approach and ascent. Then hot cocoa on the summit and hit the water stashes for the return. Unless I'm lugging it all on a big traverse. Then it's grin and bare it. I'd rather not mess with nasty snow or brainfreezes when out in the cold dark of winter. And those heavy hauls are about 1 out of every 5 trips for me...

Get psyched! Winter hiking is the best!

 

[Rick]

wow!! Lotta good (and similiar) info here. I do what Tom, Seema, Kevin, and many others suggest. I carry 2 1-liter Lexan Nalgene bottles in OR parkas and either a 16 oz or 32 oz vacuum insulated thermos of either hot soup, hot tea or boiling water.
As I drink through my OR insulated water bottles (which tend to cool off after 3~4 hours in very cold weather) I replace with clean snow, so I almost double at least one liter of available water. What's left is usually frozen slush at the end of the day though.

A good point for carrying hot water in your thermos, rather than tea or soup is If there is any hot water left in your thermos later in the day, you can always dump it into the slush in your nalgene bottle to make 1 last bottle of cool water.

As a rule, I usually save the very hot thermos stuff for lunch and then later in the day when I am prone to be colder or more tired (yeah... tirerder ..right) and need something warmer (unless I dump it in my nalgene as mentioned above)

The only other thing I've carried in the winter (and used once) for water is a small steel cup and my esbit stove with some aluminum foil for the top. It took a few tabs, but I melted enough snow in 12 minutes to get a good warm 12 oz drink when I needed it, and the steel cup kept my fingers/mitts warm when holding it.

 

[Mike P.]

I carry three liters on most hikes, add a small thermos in winter. Have been using the thick fleece mittens to keep bottles from freezing in pack, old sock in waist holster for third liter.

carry them upside down so if they do start to freeze, it's not the threads on the cap.

When climbing uphill, I'll take a mouthful of snow here & there from tree branches if freshly fallen (24 hours) Digestive tract is good.

If you are a cold hiker, I'd probably go light on the snow. I'm usually sweating by the time I get out of the trailhead parking lot & wearing less than most winter hikers.

If I remove any more layers I'm going to look like a sterotypical drunken football fan that you see on TV during December games in snowstorms. (Sadly the physique is pretty close too! )) Trust me no one wants to see that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Artex]

On relatively warm winter days (when the temps stay above 0), I've had reasonable success with my insulated camelback and insulated hose. I fill it with hot/boiling water before I leave my house, and when hiking, I tuck the hose inside my jacket. That leaves around 8 inches exposed. So long as I remember to drink every 15-20 minutes, the hose won't freeze up. Even if it does, I just open the camelback and pour the water in a Nalgene and drink it that way. It's a somewhat quirky method, but it works for me.

 

[blacknblue]

Lots of great suggestions already, but here's my $.02 ...
I carry 3 liters, with those insulated parka things (OR brand, for wide-mouth Nalgenes). That's about 6-7 pounds. This seems to be the prevailing opinion so far.
Also, depending on the route, sometimes I will bring a filter. I don't think the freezing thing is too much of a concern, actually, if just going for a day hike. If you blow it sorta dry, it won't crack and break, and if you only use it once (before going home and warming it up), it won't matter if it freezes. (Overnight / multiple use outings being a different matter, of course.) A few words of warning, though: obviously running water will be more difficult to find and approach. Between sloughing snow and thin ice, it can be tricky, so I would never rely on using my filter to augment my water supply.
And yeah, boiling snow just takes too long, generally, for just a day hike.

 

[sli74]

Also, depending on the route, sometimes I will bring a filter. I don't think the freezing thing is too much of a concern, actually, if just going for a day hike.

I think the cracking of the filter is related to the type of filter. The ceramic filters, I believe some of the MSR filters have a ceramic component will freeze and crack. The Pur Hiker, now also known as the katadyn Hiker, is made of a different kind of fiber and not ceramic and these won't crack even if they freeze, though I am not certain if they work properly when frozen.

On dayhikes, I find it easier to carry more weight in the form of water and just drink it and reduce pack weight by drinking it. But then again, I do not worry much about pack weight.

sli74

 

[post'r boy]

don't do this at home

i routinely hike 15 miles and more without drinkin' any water!! don't ask me why, i don't know. as an example, i hike/whacked to whitewall mtn and back without drinkin' any water!!ask the "human moose" he'll tell ya!!
i think he want's ta call me the "human camel"!!!!

 

[Frodo]

I am also one of those people who likes to carry all their fluids on a winter day hike. I typically carry 2 liters of Gatorade (one in an accessable OR insulator, and one wrapped in a down parka deep in my pack). I also bring along a 16oz thermos of hot chocolate (nothing like drinking something hot while being above treeline in -10 temps) I carry more for hikes longer than 10 hours.

Another thing I always do is drink a liter of water just before any hike regardless of the time of year...

For winter backpacking, melting snow or boiling stream water is the way to go, though for the past few years we have been quite succcessful with using filters on our annual winter Baxter trip (though we have had nice warm bunkhouses to keep them from freezing)

 

[boombloom]

A couple of questions. wouldn't gatoraide have a lower freezing point than plain water? I've had it turn to slush on long cold dayhikes, but it's never frozen. Another consideration: motion. The water in the nalgene bottle in the pack of a hiker in nearly constant motion will slosh around a lot. Won't that motion reduce the freezing point as well?