Hillary rips climbers who left dying man

[dr_wu002]

Very few human beings on this planet have the physical ability to do anything but barely move their OWN body at that altitude.

I wouldn't be too quick about condemning anyone, although that does seem to pass as a sport on this board at times.

I think anyone who steps foot on everest know the "deal" - I think its safe to say most on that hill, up that high, are so tired and wasted, its enough to get yourself down, never mind helping someone. I also think if your going to make an attempt on a mtn like everest, you know dying is a very real possibilty and to think if someone is going to help is crazy. If one doesn't like those odds - don't go to everest.


I don't know - of course I never been there so I don't know how it is - my thats my guess on the matter.

I'm still not backing down from my position. There were 40 people up there and basically nobody lifted a finger to help the guy. To hell with each and every one of them.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Jasonst]

Didn't the article say that one guy tried to share his oxygen?

A member of the party tried to give Sharp oxygen, and sent out a radio distress call before continuing to the summit, he said.

Several parties reported seeing Sharp in varying states of health and working on his oxygen equipment on the day of his death.

 

[alpinista]

I can't say with certainty what I would have done in that situation. I've never been at that altitude, so I don't know what the dangers are or how it would affect me physically. But I would hope that I'd try to see if I could help _ or at the very least, spend his last moments on this earth at his side so he didn't die alone.

 

[blacknblue]

no different than when

1)someone has a medical emergency in public and nobody helps.
2)someone is getting attack and nobody helps

I think people in general are basically out for themselves anyway.

but....
I think anyone who steps foot on everest know the "deal" - I think its safe to say most on that hill, up that high, are so tired and wasted, its enough to get yourself down, never mind helping someone. I also think if your going to make an attempt on a mtn like everest, you know dying is a very real possibilty and to think if someone is going to help is crazy. If one doesn't like those odds - don't go to everest.


I don't know - of course I never been there so I don't know how it is - my thats my guess on the matter.

I agree with the latter 3/4 of what you're saying, and I dig the Dropkick Murphys reference. But the situation was a bit different that the two examples you listed above in that the situation was taking place at 27000+ feet, in subzero temps, in howling wind, with little medical support within hours of grueling travel, to a guy with essentially self-inflicted wounds.

 

[blacknblue]

Again, the only thing certain about this situation is that reliable information is very scarce at this point. Before we wish hell upon 40 fellow humans, it might be worth considering...
(1) The first rule of SAR is to not become a victim yourself. Sitting at his side in the cold wind or trying to move him might very well violate this first rule.
(2) Mountaineers, by and large, have demonstrated incredible selflessness and heroism at times. Is it not interesting that zero out of 40 offered help, apparently believing the situation to be too far gone? If 2 out of 40 had tried to help, believing there was some hope, and the other 38 blew them off, that might be telling. But the fact that NONE even bothered with little more than a cursory examination, much less a full-scale rescue, is probably significant.

 

[jade]

I've stopped and turned my truck around to pick up a dying pigeon and put it on the soft grass rather than know it will eventually be run over by another vehicle...and I refer to pigeons as 'rats with wings'!

None of us were there, but in a hypothetical scenario, I could not live with peace of mind if I did not do everything humanly possible to help another fellow human being in distress......and maybe they did.....as with the Madison Rescue article, there are probably details that we will never know...I would like to give all the other hikers the benefit of the doubt...

...Jade

 

[cbcbd]

I don't think anyone here can judge these people, especially since no one has the full story (who said what, did what). Look at Into Thin Air and how much effort it took Krakauer to piece together everyone's information in order to try to get the whole story.

All I know is that my first time above 18,000ft was the most physically and mentally challenging moment in my life - I can't even fathom what it would be like to be at 29,000ft.

 

[Tuco]

http://www.mounteverest.net/morenews.php

A couple of articles with a little more info. Apaprently he wasn't solo and another member of his team died as well.

This ranks as the sceond highest season of fatalaties next to '96......

 

[Quietman]

I don't think anyone here can judge these people, especially since no one has the full story (who said what, did what). Look at Into Thin Air and how much effort it took Krakauer to piece together everyone's information in order to try to get the whole story.

Read Anatoli Boukreev's "The Climb" about the same tragedy, very different viewpoints from Krakauer's, who's story is the "true" one?

 

[timmus]

That wouldn't work for me at sea level, nor at 29000 feet.

Seems like people are complacent with death when it comes to Everest...

I'm with Tuco on that

Is it possible that all those 40 mountaineerers, while at that elevation, had already accepted the eventuality of death, theirs or anyone else's ? And because of that, it seems absolutly normal to pass by someone who's dying ?

What is outrageous at sea level can easily be normal on top of Everest. We hear all the time that this place is an open cemetery. One climber on 8 dies up there (something like that), while attempting the summit. Death is a common thing up there, so I can understand why all the 40 people didn't react much about it.

I'm absolutly not saying that this is good news, and that I would do the same thing, all I say is that I understand that kind of reality.

 

[jjmcgo]

Tensing Norkay

Always one of my favorite names and the other half of the first expedition to summit Everest. He was Hillary's Sherpa guide.
One thing I remember clearly about reading about that climb was that at one point they slept on a narrow, sheltered trail above a cliff that was barely wide enough for two people. Hillary slept against the rock wall with Norkay outside him and almost hanging over the cliff. A bit of selfishness on Hillary's part, eh what, mate?
And he paid someone -- Norkay-- to risk his life to do what no one had been previously successful. So his critical stance about the actions of others, IMHO, is a bit hypocritical.
This would be a real moral dilemma: You're a Sherpa and guiding people who have paid up to $100,000 to be led/dragged to the summit and you come upon a person who you do think can be rescued but your employers insist you leave him and complete the job you were paid to do.

 

[cbcbd]

Read Anatoli Boukreev's "The Climb" about the same tragedy, very different viewpoints from Krakauer's, who's story is the "true" one?

Krakauer has the true story... ...because it's the only story I know

...just doing some light point-making here


But, thanks for bringing that up. I knew of this book but didn't see the need to read it after reading Krakauer's (Krakauer seemed pretty thorough in his research), but seems like I'll have to pick up a copy of The Climb and get it in my reading queue

 

[Jay H]

Boukreev's book The Climb is a good read, a different perspective and interesting, in any case.

Not having ever been on Everest or being there at the time, I'll refrain on making any comments on the whole Sharp incident other than my sincere condolences to him and his family and all the climbers on Everest that had to witness that. Help or no help, it will haunt all of them for a long time.

Jay

 

[giggy]

All I know is that my first time above 18,000ft was the most physically and mentally challenging moment in my life - I can't even fathom what it would be like to be at 29,000ft.

well said -

it is insane for us to even try an analize this when most here haven't been above 15K (including myself), physically and mentally wasted from 60+ days above 15K, in cold temps, etc.. I am pretty sure most here in that situation would do the exactly the same. #1 priority being get yourself down.

heck - I have been on trips in the whites, when I have heard some here on this board - say when they saw someone who lookled out of their element - say - "lets get out of here before we have to take part in a resuce"!

 

[Sugarloafer]

Krakauer has the true story... ...because it's the only story I know

...just doing some light point-making here


But, thanks for bringing that up. I knew of this book but didn't see the need to read it after reading Krakauer's (Krakauer seemed pretty thorough in his research), but seems like I'll have to pick up a copy of The Climb and get it in my reading queue

You really need to read The Climb to understand all the possibilities of what might have happened ....it will certainly make you pause about what the true story was. The author's climbing resume is very impressive especially when compared to Krakauer's, who's in the business of selling stories.

 

[smitty77]

(1) The first rule of SAR is to not become a victim yourself. Sitting at his side in the cold wind or trying to move him might very well violate this first rule.

And there would have been a fair amount of criticism if four other hikers died while attempting to rescue a man "who would have died anyway". What is an acceptable level of aid? How much do you have to try before you get to move on? Are you supposed to turn around and go down because moving upward means you're selfish? What if you begin a rescue and he dies just as you start down. Can you dump the body and move on? It's not so black and white. In those temps and windchills, exposed flesh freezes instantly. How much could you do, knowing you're margins for your own survival are slim at best?

Ironically, I don't see anyone chastising Sharp for summiting even though he was observed to be in various states of health earlier in the day, yet we continually pound on other hikers "who should have known when to turn around".

It's a different world up there. I've never been, so I can't say for certain what I would do.
Just my $0.02

 

[Quietman]

The author's climbing resume is very impressive especially when compared to Krakauer's, who's in the business of selling stories.

Unfortunately, he was killed in an avalanche on Christmas day in 1997.

 

[trailbiscuit]

Very few human beings on this planet have the physical ability to do anything but barely move their OWN body at that altitude.

Best point of the whole thread. Again, none of us were there. How can we really know.

In addition to "The Climb," I would also strongly recommend Boukreev's memoirs (title escapes me know) published posthumously. More insight into the man, the climber and his life as the Soviet Union crumbled around him. Fascinating. As a climber, he was an uber-stud. Those memoirs and "The Climb" definitely make me question Krakauer, but that's another thread...

 

[spaddock]

#1 priority being get yourself down.

I've only been to 12k and could definitely feel the effects so I can't imagine 27, 28, or 29k

I agree that getting yourself down would be the #1 priority, but they continued to go up? I'd like to think I'd use the energy to help, instead of continuing to ascend.

I know nothing about high elevation rescue, would roping Sharp in and trying to slide him down the mountain be out of the question, a la "Touching the Void" ? If the problem was oxygen, wouldn't descending even 1000 feet help?


-Shayne

 

[Quietman]

Oxygen vs altitude

Based on this chart, 1,000 ft. dosen't do much at 28,000 ft. You're looking at 25% of the oxygen available at sea level.