Marcy Dam

[DSettahr]

As for the fees to park at the Loj, there is another possible reason for them as well- it limits backcountry use of Marcy Dam. I know this sounds kind of contrary to how wilderness resources ought to be managed, and I agree that under most conditions, we shouldn't be doing anything to limit people's access to wilderness areas. We have to remember, though, that Marcy Dam is one of the most impacted backcountry destinations on the east coast, and quite possibly in the United States. The DEC has made it perfectly clear that if the impact at Marcy Dam cannot be brought under control in the near future, they will be forced to adopt more stringent methods of limiting the amount of visitors to Marcy Dam- the most likely method being a backcountry reservation system for campsites and lean-tos, similar to what the National Parks and National Forests use in a lot of places.

The best way to limit impact in a particular area is through dispersal- encouraging hikers to choose alternate destinations in areas that aren't as popular or as impacted, and parking fees are one way to do this (the garden in Keene also has a parking fee in summer, and the other trailheads that used to be on that road were closed in the 90's).

In all seriousness any insight to the current state of affairs as far as the above mentioned ADK Mountain Club's Master Plan?

It's not the Adirondack Mountain Club's Master Plan, it's New York State's. The ADK did not write the Master Plan, the DEC and the Adirondack Park Agency did. The ADK did provide some input that was helpful in writing the plan.

It's important to remember that the ADK does not make any of the management decisions concerning state land in the Adirondacks, the DEC makes these decisions. The Adirondack Park Agency then must sign off on those decisions; if the APA disagrees, then it's up to the DEC to revise their decisions and resubmit them to the APA for approval. The ADK does provide a lot of input to the DEC that is helpful in making management decisions, but the ADK does not have any special privileges in doing so- any member of the public can provide input to the DEC. The DEC does publish draft management plans, and has public meetings that anyone can attend to meet with the DEC land managers in person and provide input (anyone can provide input via letters and phone calls as well).

Skiguy has many good points, but it would, in my opinion, be a tragedy if the park were completely privatised. I guess the really where I'm coming from.

I agree, but there is very little danger of this happening. Remember, it's illegal for New York State to sell it's land in the Adirondacks without a constitutional amendment permitting the sale. And in order to pass an amendment to the New York State constitution, the legislature has to vote in favor of the amendment twice (2 years in a row), and then it must go to a vote of the entire NYS population, where it most be approved by two-thirds of the voters. So, while it is possible that the what was state owned and run could become privatized, it's unlikely.

I understand that lobbying for the park is important; my own club, the Alpine Club of Canada, with their house in Keene, participate in all consultations. The ACC, however, does not run a commercial operation. We also participate in trail maintenance/improvement.

I took a look at the ACC's website, and I really don't see much of a difference between them and the ADK. In fact, it seems like the ACC is even more commercialized than the ADK... the ADK only operates 2 huts (1 backcountry) and one campground. In contrast, the ACC operates 28 backcountry huts. The ACC also charges fees to stay at these huts. One of the ACC's facilities even has a cafe!

Furthermore, both the ADK and the ACC lead guided trips, which must be paid for. Some of the ACC's guided trips can cost several thousand dollars. The ADK and the ACC also both sell guidebooks, maps, clothing, and some gear through their websites. I know the ADK also sells gear, maps, and guidebooks at Heart Lake and their headquarters in Lake George, I presume that the ACC has similar stores as well.

And the ADK also participates in trail maintenance/improvement, both through their professional crew (which works in summer and fall) and through volunteer work from ADK members. So, not much difference there either.

As for road maintenance, NYS clears the road on ADK land to their lodges, but not on state land - I don't get it, particularly as there are camp sites and privies on South Meadow Road.

Well, it's not a state road, so I'm pretty sure that New York State isn't the one doing the plowing- I'd guess that it's probably the Village of Lake Placid that plows it (or possibly the county but I don't think it's a county road either). Loj road also has people that live on it (including folks who live at Heart Lake), South Meadows does not. And the vast majority of people who want to access the High Peaks from Loj Road want to do it via Heart Lake, not South Meadows. Again, it just doesn't make economic sense to spend the money on plowing a road that there is really very little demand to use, especially in winter.

And even though it's not plowed doesn't mean you can't access the High Peaks via South Meadows in winter- there is plenty of room at the start of the road in front of the cement barriers they put up, enough to park 6 or 7 cars. This space often does get plowed out as well to facilitate safe parking. Whenever I go in that way, I ski in as far as Marcy Dam- on skis, I can make it to the summer trailhead in a matter of minutes, and all the way to Marcy Dam in 45 minutes. So it really isn't a huge inconvenience.

 

[Gremlin]

All good points and worth consideration.

Access, I think, will always be an issue and one that will probalbly never be satisfactory to everyone.

Good points, also, about the ACC, but I was referring to the Montreal Section and their-our property at Keene.

 

[Gremlin]

I guess I'll just shut my big mouth, park at the entrance to South Meadows and walk the extra mile or two.

 

[Little Rickie]

There's a lot of good news here. Closing South Meadows Road and prohibiting road-side parking on state road to force peopl to pay ADK 9USD a day is a real bummer. IMO ADK is a rip-off - outside of summer jobs for students they do little for the park. Their trail to Marcy Dam is a disgrace.

There was a time when 'non profit' meant public good, but now it means big bucks in salaries for the lucky few..

Had some bad experiences with them?

I don't think they are so bad. They do a lot of good in the Dacks and worthy of my membership fee.

 

[Gremlin]

I'm just keeping my big mouth shut now, before I put my foot in it again.

 

[Neil]

I'm just keeping my big mouth shut now, before I put my foot in it again.

Aw c'mon. I enjoy reading DSettahrs replies.

 

[DSettahr]

Access, I think, will always be an issue and one that will probalbly never be satisfactory to everyone.

You and I can both readily walk on our own two feet, and we've already pretty clear in our discussion that access to the woods is a complex matter with differing viewpoints that people can feel pretty passionate about.

Now imagine what it must feel like to not be able to walk on your own two feet... and you kind of start to get a glimpse of what it must feel like to be disabled and have difficulties accessing the woods. Given the state of many of our trails and trailheads, it's easy to see why the issue of access to the woods for those with disabilities can stir up so much emotion...

 

[Peakbagr]

"It's not the Adirondack Mountain Club's Master Plan, it's New York State's. The ADK did not write the Master Plan, the DEC and the Adirondack Park Agency did. The ADK did provide some input that was helpful in writing the plan.
It's important to remember that the ADK does not make any of the management decisions concerning state land in the Adirondacks, the DEC makes these decisions. The Adirondack Park Agency then must sign off on those decisions; if the APA disagrees, then it's up to the DEC to revise their decisions and resubmit them to the APA for approval. The ADK does provide a lot of input to the DEC that is helpful in making management decisions, but the ADK does not have any special privileges in doing so- any member of the public can provide input to the DEC. The DEC does publish draft management plans, and has public meetings that anyone can attend to meet with the DEC land managers in person and provide input (anyone can provide input via letters and phone calls as well).

Very good points. The Adirondack Mt Club is not the organization calling the shots. For years the conservation voices and DEC have wanted less hiker traffic from the Loj.