Mud Season Ethics

[Silverback]

Soil compaction occurs on dry or wet surfaces, the degree of which depends on so many variables. The reality is that erosion is inevitable on any established trail because of the removal of the vegetation, and huge quantities of water running down them, not because one or a hundred people walk through the mud. If we were to be totally honest with ourselves, we would realize that any season we hike on those trails (except maybe over snowcover) contributes to the cycle of erosion because we never allow the plant life to regrow. Roots to hold the soil, and not allowing the "path of least resistance" for the water to flow.

And Shewolf, your bog analogy is a nice one, except in that severe "boot sucking" environment, the foot print tends to backfill pretty quickly, which was my point in the first place.

Finally, if you can prove to me where all that mud is displaced to by those hundreds of hikers to where it winds up somewhere off the trail, it would make me a happy hiker, and I would promise never to hike in mud season again

As I read these posts that I have made, I've come to realize that in the end, they signify nothing. No opinions will change, the reality, whatever it might be, will not change, people will walk where and when they will, I have no idea whether I am right or wrong, water will flow where gravity takes it, and sometime, God willing, I will be back on the trails again.

It was fun, but now I must go walk the center of another muddy path.

 

[eddie]

Willie, you are not politically correct therefore you must be wrong But you seem like one smart sum bitch.

Hey guys, instead of overthinking this thing, try following this observation:

What does natural erosion look like? A creek bed with bare rocks.

What does human trail erosion look like: Muddy trails.

I rest my case.

 

[Silverback]

I lied. I'm back.

Human erosion looks like trails, period.

Cased closed.

Now, let's hike and forget about this stuff.

 

[Shewolf]

"the poll appears to be biased in the that responders may feel obligated to "vote" for the ecologically correct answer"

I will agree that when a poll is titled "mud season ethics", it can appear to be leaning to the side of PC. But I don't feel that if you are honest with your answer like Willie, folks are going to stand up and yell, "stone the violator". It's just a matter of our preferences regarding hiking during the mud season.

Not everyone feels that it's fun to come out of the woods full of it...I will agree that it's a pain to try to get that black adirondack mud out of clothes. Thank God for Oxy-clean!!!

Silverback, if you read all of what eddie wrote, you have seen his last comment regarding erosion: "If you truly don't want to tear-up the trails during mud season, stay off the trails."

And with regards to me validating your "backfill" theory, a bog occurs most often on a larger "level" area where water can collect the "runoff" from the slopes and where folks have trekked up the muddy inclines (most bogs in the area have virtually no infolw or outflow of mineral bearing water aka streams or groundwater). Actually, I'd love to hear eddie's opinion on your backfill theory.

if you can prove to me where all that mud is displaced to by those hundreds of hikers to where it winds up somewhere off the trail, it would make me a happy hiker, and I would promoise to never hike in the mud season again

No Silverback, you'd not be a happy hiker if I could prove to you where all that mud is displaced, and I'd still be "wrong" even if I could take a picture of it and hand it to you.

And come on, you very well know that these discussions will likely not "change" anyone's opinion, but they are a nice venue to place one's feelings, thoughts and opinions on the subject. People will do what they want, but maybe a few will take it into consideration where they chose to hike during mud season.

 

[sli74]

The following are just some thoughts that came to me as I was considering muddy trails and hiking . . .

There have only been a handful of hikes I've done that I consider "muddy trails" because a couple of patches of mud on a 10 mile hike is a possibility even in August.

Of the muddy hikes I've done most have been less traveled trails, for instance the WORST mud I ever encountred was on the Northville Placid Trail at the end of June. It was not a particularly wet spring but that trail lends itself to boot sucking mud and bugs. And trust me, when I had to physically "go after" my boot in a hand to hand combat with the mud that literally sucked it off my foot, I was wishing I was anywhere else but there. When are trails such as the above example "hikable"?

I don't know about others but it would seem to me that hiking on muddy trails is not a thrill most would seek out. However, I think certain trails just tend to remain muddy throughout the year so should these trails not be hiked? When is it okay to get back on the trails? Has to differ year to year? Who determines when we "bad" hikers can head back out there? I guess I am trying to figure out what defines a muddy trail that shouldn't be hiked? I care about preserving nature and doing the least damage I can (knowing full well that everytime I go out there at any time of year, I am doing some damage) . . . Just some thoughts and questions that came to my mind.

sli74

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Proof that eroded mud does not leave trails? Hmmmmm; that is an easy one. How about I spend at least 20 person-hours every year, as does my volunteer trail partner, cleaning out the debris that collects behind water bars on the Glen Cliff Trail on the south side of Mt. Moosilauke? We have about 200 water bars over a three mile stretch of trail that climbs about 3000 ft, in deciduous forest down low to shrub spruce/fir near the top. Granted, the material that collects behind the water bars includes some leaves, twigs, and the like, but most of the material is sediment.

If we multiply what we remove from behind water bars on the GCT times the debris that dozens of other volunteers remove cleaning out behind water bars on trails all over the Whites, we are talking tons of sediment transport off trails in the Whites per year. These anecdotal observations are backed up by a huge literature of careful scientific studies on sediment transport available in large college libraries.

I stand by my earlier point that hiking on trails during mud season enhances trail erosion, especially for trails on slopes. You can also blame gravity, but humans are the primary agent of trail erosion. Sure, we get rainstorms throughout the summer and fall, but hiking on trails at these times is not nearly as destructive as during the spring time when frost is melting out of the gournd and the trails have not had a chance to dry out and compact. We can probably reduce our impact on trail erosion in the spring time by hiking 1) on flat trails where gravity is not as effective in moving eroded sediments, or 2) on rocky-based trails that are typically entrenched by years of erosion (ex. Kinsman Ridge Trail up Cannon, another obvious "proof" that mud does not stay in place on trails).

 

[sardog1]

Gotta love the Web, where a neutral thread title earns one an accusation of push polling. (As Yogi said, "You could look it up.")

Back to letting my dogs run riot on the muddy trails, unleashed.

(But I am going to watch out for those five people who like to spray mud on greenies. I figured at the outset, maybe one or two would recognize the sardonic wit and jump at the chance. But five, well, that's starting to look like a cluster to take seriously. )

 

[rhihn]

At the first sign of mud on an otherwise dry trail, my first reaction is to step around it. I suspect that is the instinct for many. If it means walking on virgin turf and the chance of widening the trail, I will try to avoid doing that. Once the boots have hit the mud and the first instinct to say "yuch!" is behind me, I'm fine with going through it. But I think each has his or her own comfort level, whether "ethically" arrived at or otherwise. I will admit that I sometimes do have "weak" moments and walk around the mud when I shouldn't, particularly on the way back from a tiring hike. There are many herd paths around some of the mud stretches on the Bradley Pond trail that have become virtually permanent, established paths. Does everyone avoid these? The mud there is sometimes quite deep. Does everyone who tromps through the mud to avoid vegetation or trail-widening also climb over all rocks, blowdown, etc. to avoid widening the trail?

 

[Peter Miller]

If only hikers could agree to give the mountains a respite during mud season.

This year, the combination of deep frost, below average snow cover, and heavy rains has already created intense mud conditions at lower elevations. The trails are more fragile than usual for early spring.

One of the trail systems I maintain is on private lands. One 4 wheeler and a pair of horses utililzed them last weekend. The scars left by both will be there for years.

Nearly all trails in the Whites are severely eroded. We take the rocks and roots for granted, but the terrain wasn't this way when Edmands and his cohorts did the pioneer trail building in the Presidentials.

There are a few non-eroded trails in the Whites. Hiking them is a revelation. One might disclose them to a few of one's most trusted friends, but never to the masses.

The White's trails are long overdue for repair. Back when parking passes were instituted, I thought the money was going to be used toward this end. Treadways need to be refilled and hardened, trails need to be better engineered for water runoff control, and some trails need to be completely rerouted - better routes exist, and putting severely eroded trails to bed allows nature to eventually heal itself. The Whites need massive attention. Probably won't happen in my lifetime.

 

[Bob]

follow the guidelines

I follow the guidelines established by the experts, the ADK and the GMC. The Whites are less of a problem, many trails are already 'hardened'.

If one walks through the middle of the mud on existing trails, how is that tearing up the trails?

By creating ruts. Water will take the path of least resistance (the rut) so a rut will have a larger volume of water flowing, thus creating a larger force and faster erosion than a non-rutted trail. The water normally displaced over the entire trail area is now concentrated in a smaller area, thus creating a more concentrated force.

 

[ytmountains]

...I hope that he will reprise his position or expand on it here


sardog1 ... why would I want to back off on my stand ... just an opinion dude, my opinion at that!!!

EDIT After seeing that "reprise" could have a few meanings, I guess and hope that sardog may have meant something different than the meaning I took it as ... if so, I beg your pardon

If and when I hike during “mud season”, I try to stay on the trail, path, way etc… as much as possible, deviating only when needed. As far as the road query goes, its irrelevant to me.

Hikers are people and people are a unique group in their own rite. We will do things with all sorts of justifications. You won’t stop people from hiking during any condition (short of law and then I still think there would be some of us out there). It could be it cold, windy, snowing, raining and yes, even too muddy for travel. It won’t happen … we’ll still be out there, it’s a given!

I think that airing out this type of question helps. There are hikers out there, some new some not, that don’t realize the damage that is cause underfoot during muddy conditions or any other conditions for that matter. Here we get an arsenal of opinions in which we can base our rationale on.

I agree with some points …
Disagree with others …

I do think though, opinions can change, regardless of what a few have posted to the contrary. After reading these posts, even my thoughts on this matter have swayed a bit. For the good, who’s to say?

John

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

I try to minimize damage to the trail by walking down the middle. If I were to wait for Adirondack trails to dry, I'd have to wait 'til late August... seriously.

Not laying blame here, but the underlying cause of trail erosion is poor planning/maintenance... either location of the trail on "loose" soils, poor trail placement (ex - directly up a slope which causes gullying), or poor trail maintenance (insufficient upkeep of drainage "structures", or none at all). Increased foot traffic only magnifies these problems. BTW, I understand that one or more of these issues can't always be mitigated.

Many trails are in desperate need of help, and what is needed is more manpower. In exchange for my use of the trails, I feel a sense of obligation to join trail maintenance crews (which I haven't done enough of). Many times I'll take a few minutes out of a hike to repair a patch of trail. If we all volunteered a little of our time, we could make a big difference.

 

[ecc]

I ski until the middle of April (I hope I can do it this year!) and then go to Florida to see my mother until it's safe to walk the trails again.
ecc

 

[Periwinkle]

We can probably reduce our impact on trail erosion in the spring time by hiking...on rocky-based trails that are typically entrenched by years of erosion (ex. Kinsman Ridge Trail up Cannon, another obvious "proof" that mud does not stay in place on trails).

I hope you were being facetious there....

I wouldn't recommend the Kinsman Ridge Trail up to Cannon in spring to my worst enemy. While it does neatly fit into the "rocky-based trail" in some sections, that entails hiking directly up run-off streams on slick slabs in more than one area. And the "proof" of years of erosion" needs no more traffic: I was walking at shoulder level (at 5'1") in eroded gravel gulleys just waiting to let go with gusto.

I do have to say though that my original comment in this thread about muddy sections with well placed stepping stones was based on the AMC described "moist sag" on the KRT. There are stepping stones hidden in this muddy bog.

 

[stoopid]

If I hike I'll walk down the middle.

I'm minimizing my hiking, though, until early May.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Update on Glen Cliff Trail (part of AT, south side of Mt. Moosilauke, NH). I spent a few hours on the 11th of April clipping branches and observed that the first mile, which is now mostly free of snow and ice, is getting hammered by foot traffic (i.e., the trail is getting churned up into mud and sediment is moving downslope; most exposed water bars are now filled up with sediment, so I rest my case on earlier post in reply to those that claim that sediment does not move on trails). The top two thirds of the GCT are still under snow and ice, but will suffer the same fate as the lower third over the next few weeks.

My thinking now is that conscientious hikers could wear soft-soled shoes, such as sneakers, on the the lower parts of trails that are mostly mud, and then change into winter hiking boots for the upper parts of trails that are still under snow and ice during the spring. But, that is probably asking for too much?

 

[Jim lombard]

I wouldn't recommend the Kinsman Ridge Trail up to Cannon in spring to my worst enemy

I agree, been on that one twice in late summer and it's always nasty. We try and look for rocky trails in April. Whiteface yesterday was perfect. Blueberry ledge was hard with very little erosion damage. In fact we thought the woods looked tinder dry up there.

 

[carole]

My thinking now is that conscientious hikers could wear soft-soled shoes, such as sneakers, on the the lower parts of trails that are mostly mud, and then change into winter hiking boots for the upper parts of trails that are still under snow and ice during the spring. But, that is probably asking for too much?

Okay, I saw the Dr. mention this before and I didn’t get it and I guess I still don’t. I am questioning why soft-soled shoes like sneakers would be better for mud than regular boots. The way I see it is that someone in sneakers would more likely go around the mud than through it, along with more slipping (thus moving mud) because of less traction. So I’m interested in why this would be better.

 

[spider solo]

rubber boots

Though I've only visited this thread occasionally (I was surprised that mud could garner so much disscusion)
In mud season I think I carry and use what few people bring these days.
Rubbber Boots.
Plain and simple, Tingley... stretch rubber boots... knee high. You can walk through anything and it simplifies many a stream crossing.
They are light weight and if you still have energy after a hard days hike you can always go muck a stall or two........

If you want some good mud just head for a moose trail or two... those critters know how to churn up some good boot slurpin stuff........

(trust things won't get to "down an dirty" over here......spdr)

 

[Woody]

Whenever possible I try to stay in the middle of the trail. I look for the rocks that I hope the great trail crews have put in these spots. I have to admit that I have stepped to the sides of the trail when there is a blowdown that I can't climb over and would have to crawl through the mud to get under, or if the quagmire looks like it will suck my boots off, but I do try to do the right thing whenever possible.

My spring time hikes are usually confined to the trails in Massachusetts where they have usually had a better chance to thaw and to dry out. My hiking time also gets limited by the yard work I have to get done during April and May so that my lawn is not a complete mess all summer when I am ignoring it and my lawnmower to go hiking!

Unfortunately I have not been very active in trail maintenance, but I try to make up for this by contributing well more than my membership fee to the AMC and I ask that it go toward trail maintenance.