My unsuccessful Rainier attemp

[jrbren]

Nice report and good try. Wise decision to turn back, although given your team was already to the point of vomiting, although I do not think there was much of a choice involved. I notice 2 things: 1.) You talk of being cold in you sleeping bag, was you sleeping bag adequate ? 2.) You came straight up from Tacoma with no "climb high, sleep low" going on. For example RMI's 3 day program involves a snow school day on 1 where you go up to about 6K' and play around in the snow for a few hours and then go back down to Ashford to sleep.

I have attempted Rainier 3 times with RMI and still have not stood on the true summit. RMI does a fantastic job guiding one up the route, I had my own issues with heat management. I turned twice at Ingraham flats because I could not stay warm (the rest of my group went on), and the 3rd time we made it to the Crater Rim and the entire team turned back because the Mountain was capped that day, we could not see a thing. I was happy with the decision to declare victory at the Crater rim, as many parties do. The only way I knew I was at the Crater was that us what I was told. The inside of a cloud looks the same from Rainier's summit as Camel's Hump's summit ... The weather was gorgeous from about 13.5K feet on down. Ofcourse, by the time we got down to Camp Muir the summit had cleared. I am going to try again this August via a different route, the Emmons-Winthrop route out of White River. 3 reasons, 1.) To stand on Columbia Crest 2.) To get a view above 13.5K' 3.) It is just a fabulous mountain to be on, whether you summit or not. All three trips were great experiences.

On you next attempt I recommend some sort of easy acclimitazation hike 1 or 2 days before, such as Burroughs Mountain or other trails over by Sunrise. They are easy and get you up to 7K feet or so, then you come back down to spend the night. Does this really help ? I do not know. Seem, like it would and I have tried it on my previous trips, and they are great hikes in their own right. I never felt headaches or nautious on Rainier, just really cold to the core.

Congrats on a great trip ! John

 

[DougPaul]

On you next attempt I recommend some sort of easy acclimitazation hike 1 or 2 days before, such as Burroughs Mountain or other trails over by Sunrise. They are easy and get you up to 7K feet or so, then you come back down to spend the night. Does this really help ? I do not know. Seem, like it would and I have tried it on my previous trips, and they are great hikes in their own right. I never felt headaches or nautious on Rainier, just really cold to the core.

Yes, that is likely to help. In general, short visits to altitude will help and sleeping at a high-ish altitude (5-8Kft, in this case) will also help. In this particular case, a day hike to Camp Muir followed by sleeping around 5Kft might be a good program.

When we did Shasta (14,161ft), we had already spent 3 or 4 days hiking and sleeping at 6-8Kft. When we summited, 1 developed a headache around 12Kft, 1 became slightly dizzy after reaching the summit (disappeared ~13Kft on the way down), and one had no symptoms. Nothing serious and all were able to summit (and descend) without undue difficulty.

The climb high, sleep low program is frequently used on significantly higher peaks.

Doug

 

[Abster]

Hey Girl! I was looking forward to this report after doing the training hikes with you. Your pictures are wonderful! What a place to be!

You are a very strong hiker and will do fine no matter what. Take joy in the experience you had....I'm sure the summit will happen when it is right.

Let me know if you want to hit the trail again.

Hanna

 

[giggy]

yea - I would agree with that. In fact, the group I went with last year, we did something similar:

day 1) hike roughly to 7k and did crevasse training, slept in ashford that night
day 2) hike to muir
day 3 spent all day muir resting, hydrating eating, left for summit at 1 or 2am.

I think that rest day at muir is huge - thats the problem with going with RMI - they race you up and down in basically a day and half. Plus, you can enjoy the mt more, hike around muir, hike muir peak, etc..

this worked well for most of us - personally, I felt great until about 13.5K and then had some minor lightheadness, headache, etc.. but - it was near 60 degrees on the summit that day - and very hot down low once the sun came up - so even though I was drinking water, I think it was near impossible to stay fully hydrated - prolly minor dehydration more than AMS for me. I recall walking from the rim to columbia crest in zero wind being so hot......

If your dehydrated - that could also be the cold issue. Its so big a mtn, that once one little thing goes wrong, its easy to see how it can spiral down hill. The trip is paradise to paradise - anything in between is a bonus. The entire park is awesome and is amust see

 

[HuiYeng]

You talk of being cold in you sleeping bag, was you sleeping bag adequate ?

I don't think so, I was cold on both nights. I have a 20+ Alp Mounteering bag, Tom (my co-worker and team Leader) think either it was false advertising or I have cold body. Both he and his son Andrew used 20+ Northface, and they're fine. I'll rent a 0 degree on my next attempt.

My doctor was mad at me for not taking Diamox. Anyone has any comment on this drug? Will it make a different or can just remember to drink lots of water?

I have another bussiness trip to Seattle in August I am considering joining the RMI or try Mt Adams with other co-workers. No matter what, I will try to schedule more time of acclimatization, drink more water (surgically embed my platapus to my back ) and a warmer bag.

Hanna, I'm always ready for a hike, I plan to hike Carrigain this weekend with with some co-workers, love it if you can join us.

Thanks all of you for your great advise (please keep them coming), and those of you heading west soon have a great and safe trip.

 

[HuiYeng]

7summits, I really like your new avatar, but you might want to consider clicking here ...
click

Hahaha, well I thought being born and raise in a tropical country will immune me from sunburn, I was wrong, again. I guess the New England weather has soften my thick skin.

Jade, no I'm sure your mom take better picture than that, my cat took that for me

 

[Jay H]

I don't sunburn as easy as most folks. Like you, I'm also Asian and I had so-much fun picking on my Caucasian friends growing up, they would turn into the reddest lobstahs on the planet and I'd simply get darker. But with enough sun, I peel but never really sunburn. Of course, I still use SPF and most certainly on a peak like Rainier.

The light-headedness and nautia is another reason they say to bring food that you know you like. You'll eat more if you have something that you like versus an energy bar that you find OK...

Jay

 

[giggy]

Diamox: Not for me. I am against all pills like this - it masks what your body is telling you. people differ on that opinion, this is just my opinion. It will make you pee more to - easier to get dehydrated and up there, melting snow is work.

If I were guessing. I think your issue was dehydration all around - very easy to do up there.

 

[skiguy]

yea - I would agree with that. In fact, the group I went with last year, we did something similar:

day 1) hike roughly to 7k and did crevasse training, slept in ashford that night
day 2) hike to muir
day 3 spent all day muir resting, hydrating eating, left for summit at 1 or 2am.

I think that rest day at muir is huge - thats the problem with going with RMI - they race you up and down in basically a day and half. Plus, you can enjoy the mt more, hike around muir, hike muir peak, etc..

I would agree with Giggy's team approach to Ranier much more than the Three Day RMI's program. Their five day course is a much better approach. Anyone who is actually acclimitized IMO in three days to 14000ft. plus from near sea level has an affinity("THE GIFT") for altitude. If you have other aspirations for altitude you will learn much more about yourself and the acclimitization process by taking more time and following the climb high sleep low program for future endeavors.

 

[DougPaul]

My doctor was mad at me for not taking Diamox. Anyone has any comment on this drug? Will it make a different or can just remember to drink lots of water?

No you wouldn't want to take Diamox--it ruins the taste of beer...

Fortunately, reversable after you stop taking the drug.

Diamox (acetazolamide) can be of some help, but like most drugs, it can have some downsides, too. There is a good section on altitude acclimatization, including the use of Diamox, in "Medicine for Mountaineering", edited by James A. Wilkerson M.D. (available at REI, EMS, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc).

Diamox, IMO, is overkill for a 14Kft peak. (On the other hand, it might be helpful to one who wants to rush up with inadequate acclimatization time.) Again, IMO, I would rather keep it as a reserve or treatment rather than rely on it. (Some use it routinely when going to altitude.) Just for the record, I have never taken it, but if I did, I would test it at low altitude first to check for side effects.

BTW, Wilkerson is a "must have" book for any half-way serious mountaineer and hiker.

Doug

 

[jrbren]

I don't think so, I was cold on both nights. I have a 20+ Alp Mounteering bag, Tom (my co-worker and team Leader) think either it was false advertising or I have cold body. Both he and his son Andrew used 20+ Northface, and they're fine. I'll rent a 0 degree on my next attempt.

My doctor was mad at me for not taking Diamox. Anyone has any comment on this drug? Will it make a different or can just remember to drink lots of water?

I have another bussiness trip to Seattle in August I am considering joining the RMI or try Mt Adams with other co-workers. No matter what, I will try to schedule more time of acclimatization, drink more water (surgically embed my platapus to my back ) and a warmer bag.

The guide service I am going with in August recommends a 20F bag as being adequate for Rainier in Summer. If your bag was 20F and new, you should have been pretty close. If it is old, it may have lost some of it warmth over time, which can happen even in storage. I plan on bringing my 10F synthetic bag. Without getting personal it also depends also on what you wear in your sleep. If you sleep cold you can either get a warmer bag or sleep in you long underwear. If the latter, be careful not to get sweaty in the night and get them wet for your climb. Nothing like getting up at 1am and going outside in sub freezing tempertaures in the wind & dark and being wet (uhhgg). In other words, you could pack an extra set of warm underwear for sleeping that you can change out of for the climb.

Another thing, get to camp before 7:30pm ! It makes it more relaxing to lounge aorund camp and have a leisurely dinner, and have time to boil more water. One trick that works VERY well is boil water in 2 of your nalgene bottles and seal them really tight and sleep with them. It is really cozy and warm, I did this for a month on my Nepal trek last fall. On by your torso and one by your feet. Just do not confuse them with your pee bottle ... Yikes!

If you are serious about Mt Raineir this August with RMI, call them right away. Historically their trips have always filled up months in advance through Labor day, then demand wanes into September as many get scared away by the cold. But there are always cancellations. Other guide services to try are Alpine Ascents International, International Mountain Guides, American Alpine Institute. They all fill up usually by mid spring time, as Rainier is a VERY popular climb with limits on number of climbers to preserve the Alpine environment.

If that fails, I also recommend Mt. Baker. Or even if it does not fail, Baker is a gorgeous mountain in its own right, similar challenges that Rainier has with the Glacier issues, but is not as high and hence not as cold and you do not have the altitude issues to the degree you will on Rainier. Do not overlook this one because it is "only" 10,781'. Alpine Ascents International runs 3 day Baker climbs that I do not think fill like Rainier climbs do, because Baker is not the tallest around. I did my 6 day glacier training course with Alpine Ascents on Baker.

Adams also looks like a great time, but I have never done that one. Would you do the "lunch counter" or "dog route" ?

Good luck...

 

[David Metsky]

Diamox, IMO, is overkill for a 14Kft peak. (On the other hand, it might be helpful to one who wants to rush up with inadequate acclimatization time.) Again, IMO, I would rather keep it as a reserve or treatment rather than rely on it. (Some use it routinely when going to altitude.) Just for the record, I have never taken it, but if I did, I would test it at low altitude first to check for side effects.

I agree with Doug. I've had no problems with altitude so it's easy for me to say that, however. If it's impossible for you to acclimatize then Diamox would be extremely helpful, but I would stongly suggest taking a few extra days to acclimatize.

-dave-

 

[Jay H]

FWIW, I had a +38deg WM Iriquois, but I believe I stuffed a coolmax liner in my pack and I typically don't mind sleeping with layers of clothes. It makes getting out at night for whatever reason, more comfortable than if one has to dress up to go out.

Jay

 

[giggy]

I had a 20 and was chilly - I also sleep cold.

one more piece of advice - when you go for the summit - leave no later than 2am - you want to be down the cleaver and out of the icefall early rather than later - and take advantage of strong snowbridges.

I saw you guys woke at 7am - thats way too late IMO. not sure if you were planning to summit or not that day but something to keep in mind for next time.

 

[HuiYeng]

Oh no, we planned to wake at midnigth, started the climb by 1 AM. Andrew vommited around midnight, Tom canceled the summit bid, so we slept until 7.

You're right that I was dehydrated. I had a Nalgene-full of water in my tent that night, when I woke in the morning I still have almost a full bottle. The biggest mistake I made was to sleep with my head on the downhill side. I was having difficulty laying back down at night after sitting up for a drink. That's when I stopped drinking water. Should have my platapus with me in the tent too. Very dumb mistakes.

As for the Diamox, I am skeptical about that too.

jrbren, I'm not too sure about waht route we'll take for Adams yet, but most likely the South Climb (or something like that?) a non technical climb. I totally don't know yet.

I don't usually eat much during a hike anyway, but I definitly lost my appetite after vomitting, I packed a large zip-lock bagful of bacon and only ate half of them.

 

[Waumbek]

volcano mntns!

Thanks for the trip report, 7. I'm just getting acquainted with WA hiking, and I'm blown away, pardon the pun. I love the volcano mountains--Hood, Baker, Rainier. etc. There are a few in the WMNF, Chocorua for one. I'll have to check and see if there are more.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I don't think so, I was cold on both nights. I have a 20+ Alp Mounteering bag, Tom (my co-worker and team Leader) think either it was false advertising or I have cold body. Both he and his son Andrew used 20+ Northface, and they're fine. I'll rent a 0 degree on my next attempt.

My doctor was mad at me for not taking Diamox. Anyone has any comment on this drug? Will it make a different or can just remember to drink lots of water?

I have another bussiness trip to Seattle in August I am considering joining the RMI or try Mt Adams with other co-workers. No matter what, I will try to schedule more time of acclimatization, drink more water (surgically embed my platapus to my back ) and a warmer bag.

Hanna, I'm always ready for a hike, I plan to hike Carrigain this weekend with with some co-workers, love it if you can join us.

Thanks all of you for your great advise (please keep them coming), and those of you heading west soon have a great and safe trip.

I've carried Diamox but never actually taken it - but have a friend who always uses it. It works for him, but you should be aware that it's a diuretic, and since one of the keys to preventing altitude issuses is to superhydrate you should be aware of this 'property'. Whenever I take a group of friends up a 14er who are new to elevation I stress the following - get plenty of sleep the couple of days before, drink LOTS of water beginning the day before, and have a moderately high carbohydrate diet. Then, as you begin an overnight climb, get an early start and climb SLOWLY - stopping and drinking frequently. You should get to high camp by 4PM, get everything ready for the next day, then rest as much as possible. On summit day, get an EARLY start - I think someone said 2AM, and I would agree - much better to start early.

As for Mt Adams (WA) - have done that one a few times, always via the South Climb. That one you can do as a dayhike if you camp at/near the trailhead as the trailhead's a long way in and then get a very early start. You can also do it as an overnight, staying at the Lunch Counter. The slope between the false summit and the Lunch Counter is a near-perfect glissade slope!

 

[DougPaul]

I was cold on both nights.

Remember that you are breathing thinner air and are not yet acclimatized. This may reduce your resting metabolism which would make you sleep colder than you would normally. This effect is more pronnouced above ~20Kft--you cannot get enough oxygen to generate nearly as much heat as you do at lower altitudes. Climbers on the 8Km (26Kft) peaks wear full down suits and may still have difficulty generating enough heat to stay warm while hiking due to the lack of oxygen. (One of the effects of bottled oxygen is that one is much warmer with it.)

I don't usually eat much during a hike anyway, but I definitly lost my appetite after vomitting, I packed a large zip-lock bagful of beacons and only ate half of them.

Don't know what beacons are. Are you aware that fats are not digested well above ~15Kft? (Go heavy on the carbs.) Appetite is reduced (you may have to force yourself to eat) and taste changes at altitude too. Shouldn't be too much of a problem at 11Kft if you are acclimatized, but you weren't acclimatized.

A whole bunch of things can happen at moderate and high altitudes that you won't see in the NE. (6288 ft just doesn't cut it...)

Read up on AMS (acute mountain sickness) in Wilkerson or Huston.

Doug

 

[Abster]

I'm pretty sure it was a bag of bacon - she loves it!

I took Diamox for my Kili climb and didn't have any problem with it. The guide who smoked when we stopped called the cigarette his 'Diamox'.

An acclimatization day, as Giggy mentioned, is key. I don't think 'making good time' on any of the high peaks is beneficial. I had the same feeling after reading Arm, Frodo and Mtngirl's attempt of Aconcagua when they made it to basecamp a day early (Mtngirl ended up turning around). Everyone is different, but I know my body wouldn't appreciate it.

For Kili we took 4.5 days up to 19,340ft - one day just walking around at 14k. (This winter I had problems below 6k - go figure.)

Off to the Cape this weekend, but really need a hike soon. I haven't been out since Pound the Presis! Have a good one!

 

[giggy]

This is a great thread - lots of useful advice here for 7summits and anyone else thinking about doing it.

Sorry for assuming 7am was your summit day start , but you would be surprised at what you see there. I was shocked last year when i had to show a unguided climber how to put crampons on as he had never used them and had never hiked a mountain before his trip! I still don't know if he made it or not

This does look like a great year to be on the DC though. Hopefully you will get back and try again. Good luck with whatever you do. Just being up there is fun enough in my book.