Children, sports, hiking, and acceptable risk

[TrishandAlex]

I wrote a little something about children, sports, hiking, and acceptable risk, if anyone feels like reading it. My blog contains the linked references:

http://www.trishalexsage.com/2011/06/parenting-and-acceptable-risk.html

The text, without the references, is copied below.

Hope everyone had a great Father's Day!

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Six year old Sage had a gymnastics performance yesterday. She wore her sparkly blue leotard and joined her classmates in walking across the balance beam, somersaulting, and twirling around the uneven bars. We were proud of her.

Then the older kids did their thing.

Good Lord.

Girls not much older than Sage flipped across the mat at the speed of light, one after the other, almost too fast for my aging eyes to track. I became increasingly uncomfortable. What if one of them landed the wrong way? It wouldn't take much for one of them to die; for Pete's sake, my eight-year-old fractured her tibia last January doing a simple floor jump. What if one of these kids landed on her head instead of her hands?

Then came the tweens and teens, who performed what looked like a cheerleading routine. Girls stood on other girls' hands, girls were thrown and flipped in the air and caught by their teammates, girls spun ten feet off the ground and thankfully did not fall on their necks.

All these gymnasts were fantastic at what they did. Their instructors are top-notch and the studio is fabulous. All the parents had a right to be happy and proud.

As I looked around at the multitude of cheering adult faces, I wondered how many of these parents would let these same children hike up Mt. Washington in the middle of winter. Probably not many. Maybe even none. But they let their ten to sixteen year old kids flip head over heels through the air at the speed of light?

These people are nuts.

What about the parents of football players? If your son is a quarterback, that's fantastic...right? Why? Football (along with gymnastics and cheerleading) accounts for a lion's share of the catastrophic injuries and fatalities that occur in traditional children's sports. (reference)

The parents of football players are also nuts.

Perhaps it's better to avoid all children's sports and just let the kids ride their bikes around the neighborhood. That's safe enough, isn't it? Probably not, considering that 86 bike-riding kids under the age of 16 were struck and killed by cars in 2009. Ten thousand (!!) more were struck and injured. (reference)

Therefore, any parent who lets her kid get on a bicycle is absolutely, without a doubt, 100% nuts.

What about hiking Four Thousand Footers? To be fair, a legitimate comparison can't be made because analogous studies have not been conducted. That being said, any parent who takes their kid up a Four Thousand Footer, especially in the middle of winter, must clearly be nuts, right..?

So I guess that makes me nuts.

So which parents aren't nuts? The ones who keep their kids away from all sports and general physical activity? Nope. Inactive kids have a higher risk of becoming obese and developing high blood pressure and diabetes.
(reference)

These parents are definitely nuts.

So what's the solution to all this nuttery?

I suppose we'll each have to decide what constitutes acceptable risk for our own individual family -- and we'll have to respect the decisions other parents make for their own individual families. We don't all have to agree. However, we can't try to force our own conclusions down other people's throats. After all, nuttery abounds, no one's immune.

'll take my six year old up a 4000 foot mountain when it's ten degrees because we're prepared, I carry everything we need for an accidental night out, and I stick to popular trails. Some other mother will let her daughter spin and flip fifteen feet off the ground because she has complete faith in her daughter's abilities and the rest of the team's competence. Yet another mother will let her ten year old girl bike around the block because she knows her daughter will be careful and watch for cars. Etc.

Not that any of this matters, because at some point each of us will strap our kid into a car and drive him or her somewhere. And THAT, my friends, is the most dangerous activity of all. (reference)

Nuts.

 

[jmorrison518]

Great post Trish...

We just put the finishing touches on a halfpipe (skateboarding) in my back yard for my 2 girls (8 and 10 years old). We also snowboard all winter, and hike in the summer. Several of my friends have said we were nuts, but it was a great feeling when we took one of our "less active" friend's daughter up Monadnock last summer, and to this day she says that was one of the funnest things she has done and can't wait to come up one of the "big" mountains with us.

Showboarding in the woods?!! ARE WE NUTS??!!!

 

[Maddy]

"NUTS" is an and expression used in our culture to label each other when we disagree on many different topics. It implies we are "out of our minds" when we indulge in certain behaviors but in fact we are not. We make very conscious decisions and at the end of the day we will live with the consequences of those actions.

The 9 yr old boy next door rides his motor scooter in the yard as fast as it will go, out to the street, (hope no one is coming), and back. Sometimes he has the 2yr old in his lap. No helmets. Round and around we go.
I think mom is "nuts'! Lots of people don't. He could be in his living room playing computer games getting fat. At least he is getting some fresh air and learning to drive. He did drive into the garage last week but walked away unscathed with everyone laughing.

There are no guarantees that we will not be killed driving to the grocery store today, or that someone won't plow us down when we are taking a stroll on the sidewalk. "Life on the edge!" To quote a friend who said this about his nutty dog. "Each day he lives is a triumph over death!" Perhaps this is true for all of us. There is no cure for "nuts". It's genetic...back to our roots. As the wise man said re: advice. "Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it!" Each one of us must determine how much risk we wish to take with our own lives and most important the lives of our children. It goes without saying that there is a line we can't cross with kids or the authorities will be knocking at the door. Having lady luck on our side helps justify that what we are doing is A OK! If however we come face to face with the "reaper" we might have to pay up. When it involves a child it helps to keep in mind that we will have to live with the outcome for the rest of our lives.

I worked in a level 1 trauma center way too long to comment any further. Many will think my perspective is tainted and that exposure to death and disaster has no doubt made me "NUTS!" I agree wholeheartedly but in my heart of hearts I am deeply grateful for that experience.

Ever onward and upward!

 

[Craig]

Perhaps these activities/behaviors are a way to self regulate ones own chemistry?

Activities that allow for an increasing level of risk-taking may be especially attractive? e.g. hiking, gymnastics.

To quote a sentence from Chinooktrail's recent TR talking about a hiking trip to the Whites: “You come home bruised and scratched and bug bitten and burned with bloody toes and sore muscles and a huge smile on your face!”
If this is true for most, don't you have to wonder why?

These comments are not intended to be critical in any way.

 

[timmus]

When I'm back from hiking a mountain with my kids (does elevation matters ?), I always feel so good about it, I don't care about what other parents thinks.

I know it's good for them, and it is not against any laws, point final.

To me, nuts are the ones that are waiting for other people's approval for whatever they wanna do.

 

[mirabela]

nuts are the ones that are waiting for other people's approval for whatever they wanna do

Well said.

 

[Fisher Cat]

As long as I can remember Trish, I had heard the stories of hikers who had lost their lives in the Whites. If it wasn't stories told me by the old-timers, it was the plethora of books in the house that did. Amazingly so, even at a young age, I did not want to be a statistic. I don't remember my folks pushing the envelope with us, but I do remember the occasional hike where weather forced us back. It was the example of my folks and my great uncle that I remember because of their preperation and common sense.

Children raised outdoors have the best foundation, PERIOD. Sure, they will do dumb and crazy things enough as it is without worrying about the bad decision making and influence of their parents. I would not trade an adolescence spent outdoors for anything else. Start young, and they will grow. They will have problems, bumps, bruises, and still manage to survive.

I can't recall a life without playing hockey on ponds, learning to shoot and hunt at a young age, splitting wood by hand, ski racing (OK, two concussions there, but I lived), sledding, well, the list is endless, and its all becuase of where I grew up and the parents and influences I had. My personal favorite (and we learned this from another set of brothers older than us) "tree-swatting", which looking back was incredibly risky and foolish, but like so many other things in life, was a lot of fun at the time.

Point is, one will receive endless viewpoints and opinions, yet, that is all they are.

 

[Jim lombard]

I'm the dad of a 3-1/2 year old and she's already climbed a few small mountains on her own two feet. She loves it!

Oh, the horror!

Seriously, people need to get over it, they are OUR kids.

 

[Raven]

Genetics, current environment, luck, education, experience, wisdom, the support of others, the trust of our children, and a host of other factors all differ for each of our situations. It's the reason it's difficult if not impossible to apply one rule to each of us.

In other words, what applies to you may not apply to me and vice versa.

Take a family with a young child living in downtown Detroit. That family may find it perfectly sane to allow their children to play outside in the evening. Risk vs. benefit applied to a specific situation. Suggest that same family take their child hiking in winter in the Whites. Suggest I allow my daughter on the streets of a major city without a lot of supervision. We're both nuts or we're both completely sane depending on the situation.

Perspective.

Interesting thread.

 

[Jaytrek57]

Very well said Raven.

I serve a tremendous amount of kids from the inner city (I hate that term) who have fanastic foundations.

My "first" speech whenever I take kids up north, and it's usually kids of color, is that, this way isn't better than yours, it's different than yours.

I hope/pray all outdoor educators follow the gist of what I'm saying...the kids have to go back to where they are, and to say one way is better, well that would kinda suck.

Jay

 

[brianW]

Back in the fall on a mt bike forum a few riders were talking about how dangerous it is to ride out in the woods of GA and SC during hunting season with all those "crazy red necks". Most of these people lived in Augusta, GA which had close to 40 people murdered last year.

Lived in GA for five years and still have not heard of a hunter wounding or killing anyone since I have moved.

Great article.

 

[TrishandAlex]

Showboarding in the woods?!! ARE WE NUTS??!!!

Yes, you are -- in the best possible way. My kids want to visit your house next winter. We'll invite ourselves over once the snow starts to fly.

"NUTS"
I worked in a level 1 trauma center way too long to comment any further. Many will think my perspective is tainted and that exposure to death and disaster has no doubt made me "NUTS!" I agree wholeheartedly but in my heart of hearts I am deeply grateful for that experience.

Ever onward and upward!

Maddy, we're all "tainted" -- our decisions are based on what we've learned from our own experiences. I enjoy your posts, this one included. Thanks for the thoughtful commentary.

When I'm back from hiking a mountain with my kids (does elevation matters ?), I always feel so good about it, I don't care about what other parents thinks.

I know it's good for them, and it is not against any laws, point final.

To me, nuts are the ones that are waiting for other people's approval for whatever they wanna do.

Timmus, the amount of elevation only matters in the eyes of someone who is judging based on perceived risk. For example, a mother who isn't a hiker might raise her eyebrows at a parent who takes her kid up Mt. Tom in February, but shrug at a parent who takes her kid up Bald Mountain (by Cannon). Even though, in my opinion, tiny Bald Mountain is a much more dangerous mountain in the winter, due to the ledges before the summit. I've been turned back by those ledges more than once, a quarter of a mile from the parking lot, because of the significant risk of slipping on the ice and breaking my neck. A broken neck ten minutes from the parking lot is still a broken neck...hiking Mt. Tom (Four Thousand Footer) is safer, in my opinion -- no iced-over ledges. However, a non-hiker won't understand this, she'll just assume that the higher mountain is more dangerous.

Love your last sentence.

Children raised outdoors have the best foundation, PERIOD. Sure, they will do dumb and crazy things enough as it is without worrying about the bad decision making and influence of their parents. I would not trade an adolescence spent outdoors for anything else. Start young, and they will grow. They will have problems, bumps, bruises, and still manage to survive.

Point is, one will receive endless viewpoints and opinions, yet, that is all they are.

Well said.

I'm the dad of a 3-1/2 year old and she's already climbed a few small mountains on her own two feet. She loves it!

Oh, the horror!

How shocking!! You should be ashamed of yourself!

Congrats to your daughter -- glad she's loving it. And KUDOS to you for getting her out there!

Genetics, current environment, luck, education, experience, wisdom, the support of others, the trust of our children, and a host of other factors all differ for each of our situations. It's the reason it's difficult if not impossible to apply one rule to each of us.

In other words, what applies to you may not apply to me and vice versa.

Exactly.

I hope/pray all outdoor educators follow the gist of what I'm saying...the kids have to go back to where they are, and to say one way is better, well that would kinda suck.

Jay

Good point.

Back in the fall on a mt bike forum a few riders were talking about how dangerous it is to ride out in the woods of GA and SC during hunting season with all those "crazy red necks". Most of these people lived in Augusta, GA which had close to 40 people murdered last year.

Lived in GA for five years and still have not heard of a hunter wounding or killing anyone since I have moved.

Great article.

Thanks! As someone mentioned above, it's all about perspective. People (including me) assume so many things based on their own experiences...everyone could benefit from thinking outside the confines of their own lives every once in a while.

 

[Maddy]

Maddy, we're all "tainted" -- our decisions are based on what we've learned from our own experiences. I enjoy your posts, this one included. Thanks for the thoughtful commentary.

You are most welcome!

We certainly are all "tainted" by our experiences be they good or bad, and in our own special way "nuts" to. This thread has given me pause for reflection on how often we use the word "nuts" and in what context. It appears it has many diverse uses and I cannot take it seriously.

I love quotes and this is my new favorite.

“What is the single most powerful blow you can aim at the status quo?
To disobey the formula & live a life that matters on your own terms.”
~Anonymous

As I get older I am less inclined to give advice to others. My only exception now would be if a close friend outright requested it. It's been my experience that people just like to expound about things and don't really want to hear any ideas for possible resolutions to their dilemmas.
This seems to be especially true when one is speaking to parents about children. I think deep down we all have a pretty good idea of what is acceptable risk and what poses a serious threat to a child's safety. Over the years there has been a lot more info out there to help guide us. We still make the final decisions.

I often took on the responsibility of my best friend's teen boy and we had many great adventures in the Whites. If he tried to cross the line I would ask myself if I could live with outcome if "lady luck" was not on his side. If the answer was "no"...game over! We moved on. He loved to push the envelope. We had nice talks about risk, what was acceptable, and what was not. He never gave me a hard time. I came to appreciate that I could say NO and we could still enjoy ourselves. I would bring him home to mom and dad with bumps, bruises, and a big smile on his face. He grew up to be a serious, avid mountaineer in spite of, or perhaps because of, his T seeking personality.

We live in different times now. Things change and always will. Taking risk is promoted as being The Banff films, Radical Reels, and many other offerings on TV, movies,etc. certainly promote it.
We seem to have a need to do things faster and with greater gusto. Kids are striving to climb the big walls.
We are no longer hiking the AT but running it and trying to set one record after another.

What are we running to, or what are we running from?
What is it exactly that we are teaching our kids?
Are we all just plain NUTS??? OH NO...NOT THAT WORD AGAIN!

I need to go for a quiet walk in the woods with my MOLLY!

 

[Little Rickie]

A little drift...

Our mailman just left the office complaining how he, the baseball coach, has to put up with parents complaining about the new 8 year old kid, new to "playing" baseball, on the team and how he shouldn't be on the same team with the boys that have been playing baseball since age 5 because his skills, lack of, are holding back the team. Sounds like a lot of fun for the kids to me.

I fell sorry for the kids being performace driven by their parents at 8 YEARS OLD!!

 

[TrishandAlex]

We live in different times now. Things change and always will. Taking risk is promoted as being The Banff films, Radical Reels, and many other offerings on TV, movies,etc. certainly promote it.
We seem to have a need to do things faster and with greater gusto. Kids are striving to climb the big walls.
We are no longer hiking the AT but running it and trying to set one record after another.

What are we running to, or what are we running from?
What is it exactly that we are teaching our kids?
Are we all just plain NUTS??? OH NO...NOT THAT WORD AGAIN!

I need to go for a quiet walk in the woods with my MOLLY!

Maddy, I feel the opposite -- as a parent of young children, I see many people around me trying to bubble-wrap their kids. Go to a playground for five minutes and count how many times you hear a parent/teacher say "no," "don't do that," "that's not safe," etc. I'm talking about things like jumping off a curb that's two feet off the ground, swinging "too high," etc.

As for speed records, etc. -- I'm all for it. If a kid wants to hike big mountains, that's awesome. If he or she wants to climb the big walls -- GREAT. People should do what they want to do, they should be encouraged to go for what they want, as long as they're taking appropriate safety measures. What does that teach our kids? That anything is possible. That they can accomplish something "big" if they want to. That small does not equal weak. That they should not hold themselves back in an effort to conform or please others. Please note I am talking about encouraging kids to go for what they want. I am NOT talking about parents pushing their kids to do anything. There's a huge difference.

Our mailman just left the office complaining how he, the baseball coach, has to put up with parents complaining about the new 8 year old kid, new to "playing" baseball, on the team and how he shouldn't be on the same team with the boys that have been playing baseball since age 5 because his skills, lack of, are holding back the team. Sounds like a lot of fun for the kids to me.

I fell sorry for the kids being performace driven by their parents at 8 YEARS OLD!!

Rickie, it doesn't sound like the parents of the 8 year old are the problem. The problem is with the parents of the 5 year olds, yes? They're the ones complaining that an inexperienced 8 year old is on the team.

 

[Little Rickie]

It's a team of 8 year old boys some of which have played base ball on a team since age 5 and their parents objected to the new kid that didn't know how to play baseball yet or very well.

Yes, it is the parent with the problem. I've been a Cub Scout leader and having them do anything is like herding cats.

 

[TrishandAlex]

It's a team of 8 year old boys some of which have played base ball on a team since age 5 and their parents objected to the new kid that didn't know how to play baseball yet or very well.

Yes, it is the parent with the problem. I've been a Cub Scout leader and having them do anything is like herding cats.

Arg, sorry -- you were quite clear in what you wrote, my apologies.

 

[MadRiver]

It is similar to moving into a new neighborhood when you are 12 and all the kids have known each other since birth, it takes awhile to be accepted. In my new neighborhood if you didn’t play Little League you were considered a Communist sympathizer. I still do not like the game.

 

[Maddy]

A little drift...

Our mailman just left the office complaining how he, the baseball coach, has to put up with parents complaining about the new 8 year old kid, new to "playing" baseball, on the team and how he shouldn't be on the same team with the boys that have been playing baseball since age 5 because his skills, lack of, are holding back the team. Sounds like a lot of fun for the kids to me.

I fell sorry for the kids being performace driven by their parents at 8 YEARS OLD!!

Little Rickie...gone are the days where kids gathered together and went to the empty lot and had the "all are welcome" ball games! Those days are gone forever.

 

[Little Rickie]

Little Rickie...gone are the days where kids gathered together and went to the empty lot and had the "all are welcome" ball games! Those days are gone forever.

So is the fun.

I sucked at baseball on the t-shirt league team but I don't remember a bad game on the corner lot. Anyone ever play 500? I don't remember the rules,if there were any. How about hot box?