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Thread: Franconia brook trl/13 falls/twin brook trail region beta request

  1. #16
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dug View Post
    I don't get the angst with what others want to do. If someone wants to carry something because it makes them feel more comfortable, it has no affect on me. I personally wouldn't bother, and the only real interaction was with Brutus, the Pemi bear who ended up being put down (I believe). If we had spray, it likely would've been used as he showed no inclination on leaving initially. Could've made the situation worse. But, to each their own.

    Since we are measuring experiences, that comes with over 50 years experience in the Whites....
    Since you obviously had me in mind when you commented, I'll respond. I have no "angst" I just felt like the wrong information was given and I corrected it. When I started hiking in CA and CO, I joined some sites like VFTT that were in those states to educate me on the wildlife and high peaks that I planned to climb. I was looking for information that I could rely on, not information that made me feel good. Why is everyone so sensitive now a days?

  2. #17
    Senior Member TEO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    I just felt like the wrong information was given and I corrected it.
    Are you saying that bear spray wasn't available at the West Hartford REI? If not, what was the incorrect information?

    (That's great that you are older than 40; you've hiked in NH, CO, and CA; and have seen a bear. Have you been anywhere else? Have you spent any time in NH outside of what's covered in the White Mountain Guide?)

    There are people who have irrational fears about wildlife and/or being in the woods/mountains/great outdoors. Given the choice between: (A) carrying a handgun, (B) carrying a tool that, if unnecessary, is effective when used as directed, or (C) not getting outside, I will almost always recommend (B).

    With the increasing encounters between Black Bears and humans in the Northeast, perhaps we should be looking more to the use of bear spray. There are some that argue that making loud noises only furthers the habituation. (I'm thinking as much about "in town" or close-to-home encounters as on-trail or in-the-woods encounters.)

  3. #18
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    Since you obviously had me in mind when you commented, I'll respond. I have no "angst" I just felt like the wrong information was given and I corrected it. When I started hiking in CA and CO, I joined some sites like VFTT that were in those states to educate me on the wildlife and high peaks that I planned to climb. I was looking for information that I could rely on, not information that made me feel good. Why is everyone so sensitive now a days?
    Giving information based on one's experiences = good
    Mocking someone for being overly protective = notsogood

    Maybe when you have more experience in the Whites you'll get that.

  4. #19
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    Is "Hike Your Own Hike" still a thing or did that go away?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    I just felt like the wrong information was given and I corrected it.....Why is everyone so sensitive now a days?
    I think people get sensitive because that is a pretty strong statement. You always critique me for overthinking (which is fine - I don't mind) so I'll return some friendly advice (cash value = $0.01) and say that your responses sometimes can be fairly abrasive and can be taken as insulting. To declare that the info was "wrong" and you "corrected it" is on it's face pretty obnoxious, regardless of your experience level. I could see where people here not familiar with you and your background would not appreciate that. I personally don't mind but I can see where others would. Please don't take this as inflammatory because that is not my intent. I personally like your bold statements because it can stir up good conversation, but that's just me. I love a good argument.

    With regard to the original question, there has been quite an an uptick in bear encounters, especially at established campsites, many of which have had temporary closures. And in my experience there are a lot of people out there failing to store food properly (bad bear hangs, not bothering to hang at all or worse). So more bear activity and poor food storage by campers would certainly seem to make this site more likely to have a bear encounter. So to ask the question of "Should I bring bear spray" seems reasonable to me, not some over-the-top ridiculous question. I personally still wouldn't bring any and have never felt the need for it despite many encounters but I can see where someone would consider it. This is not a right/wrong question to me. It's a personal preference/opinion. So suggesting that someone does something that you would not do is "wrong" seems out of place and unnecessarily confrontational. And to other's points, who cares if the OP brings or doesn't bring spray? Purely my opinion, not a judgement on right vs wrong. I don't think there is a "correct" answer to this type of question (unless of course there was some sort of law or statute requiring it).

  6. #21
    Senior Member hikerbrian's Avatar
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    I think the bear situation is changing in the northeast, and so (like the stock market) past performance is not necessarily a perfect predictor of future performance. Or maybe it's not changing. That's the thing about change - you can't tell it happened until after it does.

    In any case, the first overnight backpack I took my boys on was to Franconia Brook tentsite on the east side of the Pemi. A very, very well-used spot. Considering my perceived uptick in bear encounters at that time (~8 yrs ago) and my children's proclivity to dump portions of dinner all over themselves, (and, truthfully, a rumor that a couple of undesirables occasionally slept off the afternoon's festivities there) I packed bear spray. I already had it, and the extra weight was inconsequential compared to overnight gear for 3 that was already on my back. I kept it on my hip once we were out of the immediate vicinity of the ranger station. I don't think it was the wrong call for me/us.
    Sure. Why not.

  7. #22
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEO View Post
    Are you saying that bear spray wasn't available at the West Hartford REI? If not, what was the incorrect information?

    (That's great that you are older than 40; you've hiked in NH, CO, and CA; and have seen a bear. Have you been anywhere else? Have you spent any time in NH outside of what's covered in the White Mountain Guide?)

    There are people who have irrational fears about wildlife and/or being in the woods/mountains/great outdoors. Given the choice between: (A) carrying a handgun, (B) carrying a tool that, if unnecessary, is effective when used as directed, or (C) not getting outside, I will almost always recommend (B).

    With the increasing encounters between Black Bears and humans in the Northeast, perhaps we should be looking more to the use of bear spray. There are some that argue that making loud noises only furthers the habituation. (I'm thinking as much about "in town" or close-to-home encounters as on-trail or in-the-woods encounters.)
    Actually with all mocking aside and moral policing Bear Spray is available in West Hartford for curbside pickup. Have you ever tried a trip line? Especially useful when inside the Artic Circle.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  8. #23
    Senior Member BISCUT's Avatar
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    What you have in your pack is none of my business; after all it's you carrying the extra weight. I'd agree bear spray is not necessary in the the NorthEast. I've not run into a black bear in the Whites but plenty of times, especially early am in Catskills. Close to a dozen encounters over my 30 years or so hiking. It must be me because the bears run away pretty darn quick!

  9. #24
    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    You should not be concerned with bear encounters on the trail. If you do see one, make noise or make noise and back away if the bear does not run away. The only time I would be concerned, is if I didn't use proper food storage and had food in my tent, that could invite a problem. With all due respect to the previous commenter, Bear spray is not needed in the Whites.
    I completely agree. Absolutely no need to carry bear spray whatsoever.

    Brian

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    Is "Hike Your Own Hike" still a thing or did that go away?
    Hike your own hike, sure.

    But you'll get pushback (whether it be contempt, ridicule or just trying to "set you straight" in a friendly manner) unless you take care to do it in a way everyone else approves.

    Internet discussion is here to help.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    I think people get sensitive because that is a pretty strong statement. You always critique me for overthinking (which is fine - I don't mind) so I'll return some friendly advice (cash value = $0.01) and say that your responses sometimes can be fairly abrasive and can be taken as insulting. To declare that the info was "wrong" and you "corrected it" is on it's face pretty obnoxious, regardless of your experience level. I could see where people here not familiar with you and your background would not appreciate that. I personally don't mind but I can see where others would. Please don't take this as inflammatory because that is not my intent. I personally like your bold statements because it can stir up good conversation, but that's just me. I love a good argument.

    With regard to the original question, there has been quite an an uptick in bear encounters, especially at established campsites, many of which have had temporary closures. And in my experience there are a lot of people out there failing to store food properly (bad bear hangs, not bothering to hang at all or worse). So more bear activity and poor food storage by campers would certainly seem to make this site more likely to have a bear encounter. So to ask the question of "Should I bring bear spray" seems reasonable to me, not some over-the-top ridiculous question. I personally still wouldn't bring any and have never felt the need for it despite many encounters but I can see where someone would consider it. This is not a right/wrong question to me. It's a personal preference/opinion. So suggesting that someone does something that you would not do is "wrong" seems out of place and unnecessarily confrontational. And to other's points, who cares if the OP brings or doesn't bring spray? Purely my opinion, not a judgement on right vs wrong. I don't think there is a "correct" answer to this type of question (unless of course there was some sort of law or statute requiring it).
    Well said and spot on - plus way more diplomatic then I would have done

  12. #27
    Senior Member TEO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    I completely agree. Absolutely no need to carry bear spray whatsoever.

    Brian
    . . . as long as you have a Jack Russell Terrier.

    FTFY

    ;-)

  13. #28
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    I think people get sensitive because that is a pretty strong statement. You always critique me for overthinking (which is fine - I don't mind) so I'll return some friendly advice (cash value = $0.01) and say that your responses sometimes can be fairly abrasive and can be taken as insulting. To declare that the info was "wrong" and you "corrected it" is on it's face pretty obnoxious, regardless of your experience level. I could see where people here not familiar with you and your background would not appreciate that. I personally don't mind but I can see where others would. Please don't take this as inflammatory because that is not my intent. I personally like your bold statements because it can stir up good conversation, but that's just me. I love a good argument.

    With regard to the original question, there has been quite an an uptick in bear encounters, especially at established campsites, many of which have had temporary closures. And in my experience there are a lot of people out there failing to store food properly (bad bear hangs, not bothering to hang at all or worse). So more bear activity and poor food storage by campers would certainly seem to make this site more likely to have a bear encounter. So to ask the question of "Should I bring bear spray" seems reasonable to me, not some over-the-top ridiculous question. I personally still wouldn't bring any and have never felt the need for it despite many encounters but I can see where someone would consider it. This is not a right/wrong question to me. It's a personal preference/opinion. So suggesting that someone does something that you would not do is "wrong" seems out of place and unnecessarily confrontational. And to other's points, who cares if the OP brings or doesn't bring spray? Purely my opinion, not a judgement on right vs wrong. I don't think there is a "correct" answer to this type of question (unless of course there was some sort of law or statute requiring it).
    If people don't care for the way I conduct myself, they can move on and ignore me. If the moderators don't like it, they can remove me from the site. I make no excuses for my way of talking or answering, that's who I am. If people want to listen and hear my advice great, I would love to help out and make someone's hike better and safer. There is a reason I've been a soloist for many years, frankly, I don't excel in a group setting, could be worse, I could only have one leg. Now put down the bear spray and buy a whistle.

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