C'mon everyone - PLEASE READ THIS

[Peakbagr]

Darren is again doing a bike ride for a great cause, the Brain Tumor Society for Research ride.
We have over 1000 members, and when I took a look, less than 20% of us had even read his post.

He donates uncounted hours and lots of his personal money to this site. Darren strongly believes in this charity, and has invited folks to support the bike ride thru donations. Not only is this an important cause, but its important enough to Darren that he's probably hoping that more than 20% of us will contribute. Please go to the top of the Q&A section to read more about it and where you can contribute.
He won't say this, but I certainly can. 99% of the people who belong to VFTT have computers. The vast majority cars and equipment to support our hobby. Can't more than a small minority cough up $3 to $5 each for something Darren feels strongly enough to post here and do a bike ride for?
I don't care if you flame me, so long as this gets the attention of more than the number who've read about it so far.

Thanks,
Peakbagr

 

[Barry Sr]

You still have time to sign up to ride with us.
My 14 year old son is and it took him very little time to gather the donations needed for the minimum.

25 miles ain't a long distance on a bike but you are going a looong way to help a good cause.

I personally lost my kid brother to a brain tumor when I was 12. I ride for him and to set an example for my own boy.

If you're in the area and want to just come by and shake a fellow VFTT hand, do that as well.

 

[chomp]

Not going to flame you, Peakbagr, but I am going to fully and completly diasgree with you.

Not everyone who visits this site loves to to death. Not everyone on this site thinks that it is worth $3 or $5 bucks to keep it going. I contribute to a few mountain bike sites, but I would never give a dollar to keep them going. I am sure that this place has a lot of memebers like that as well.

Lets not discourage people who don't feel like kicking in some money from participating. Lets not make those people feel unwelcome. This is not a pay site, so lets not treat it like one. Those who enjoy it enough to care that it is around for another year will donate. Those that don't, won't.

And please don't put words in Darren's mouth.

Please consider sponsoring me on the TBTS Ride for Reseach this year and donate soon. The ride is on the 16th, which is just over a week away.

If he wanted everyone to contribute he would say so. We as a group more than exceed the money he spent on the site, and we are a group more than exceed his goal for the ride - what is the problem?


Another thing, as for saying that we all have a few spare bucks to spend... well that is some of the worst logic I have ever heard. If I gave $5 to every single person that asked for it, I would be broke. Its a matter of priorities, and everyone needs to define what is important to them and what is not. To me, its worthwhile... to others, not so much. Its not like these are bad people. There is no stated fee for using this site, its a choice. Let people make the choice.

Finally, as for the 20% number... well maybe only 20% of the membership is ACTIVE. Maybe only 20% of us check this site on a regular basis. Why is this so shocking?

And for those that didn't see my post on the other thread, I am fully in favor of Darren asking for donations. Especially in creative ways, since I am one of the guilty parties that doesn't notice unless he uses a clever title. It is his site, and he puts forth a very reasonable argument - if he can't generate enough donations to exceed the money and time that he spends on this site, then he will spend that money and time on BTS. Makes complete and total sense to me.

Anyway, this is a really long post for my intention - I want ALL members to feel welcome here. VFTT is a great place. I think its great enough to pay to use it. If you don't, thats fine too. I'll either have to potentially pay more, or see my site go away. However, judging from the money that has been donated, and how quickly it was donated, I don't think that is a problem.

And Finally, FINALLY!! Darren - good luck this weekend, and have a great ride. I'll be down in Damascus, VA doing something decidedly non-generous, but having a good time nonetheless. Thanks for your effort and your time on this site.

Tim "Chomp" Scott

 

[DeadFred]

Nothin's Free

1. This is Darren's site. I love it. I learn from it. I hope people learn from my participation in it. It's free to me. But not to Darren, I'm most sure.

2. Let it go that Darren and Peakbagr have used an age old tactic to get people's attention. (A number of people have taken issue with this.) Give 'em credit for getting people's attention. But don't shoot the message (BTSR) on account of not liking the way it was delivered.

3. Donate or don't to Darren's worthy cause. No one is being forced to do so, but I have to agree with Peakbagr that Darren's request is NOT a lot to ask.

4. If you plug yourself into this equation and add up points 1, 2, and 3, ask yourself if it is unreasonable for Darren to ask for those who value HIS site to CONSIDER donating to HIS worthy cause. Then act (or don't) on your answer.

Last week I donated in private, because I don't want public recognition. But I did donate. (On behalf of a 42 year old uncle who died of a BT 8 years ago.) But my point is that whether one donates or not really should not affect anyone else, nor that person him/herself. If one is not able or willing to give, no one else will know. So how can this request be offensive to anyone. Darren isn't keeping a list and kicking people of VFTT if you don't donate. He and peakbagr are only trying to drive donations for a worthy and SELFLESS cause. So help or don't. I'm sure most people here have their own causes and limits in ability to give time and money to such causes. (I donate time to my causes since I have less disposable income.) If you fall in this category then I'm sure you can sleep just fine at night even if you can't give to Darren's cause.

I know for myself that I may not have a pot to piss in, but that I am healthy and have a roof over my head. (And, I have LOTS of gear!) Thus I can certainly afford to give for 2 reasons: 1. It's a good cause, and I'm grateful for what I do have. 2. It's a cause Darren has asked us to support and since I use his resources (ie: VFTT) to my personal benefit at no cost to me, I am more receptive to his request. So yes, there is a linkage here if you ask me, and I don't mind that this linkage has been made in public to help drive donations.

For Darren to use HIS SITE as a vehicle to drive donations to a charitable cause should be lauded, not criticized. This is a great example of grass-roots philanthropy and should be a refreshing approach to those who value citizen activism in a free society. [Ok, mostly free ;-)]

Thanks for reading my point of view. I hope my comments help defuse as opposed to inflame a tense situation.

So please consider even a very small donation, or if you can't then consider taking this opinion and donating some of your time to a cause that helps someone in need.

 

[Rick]

Peakbagr,

I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree we must all ("we" meaning mankind in general) support others through philanthropy - be it charitable giving via donations of goods & services or charitable actions.

While I do appreciate the invitation to donate; Heart Disease (AHA) and Breast Cancer (BCF) are much higher on my scale of giving due close personal relationships of those ill or dying from these disease states.

I beleive there may be a silent majority of VFTT members that also give to many charitable trusts or foundations for the very same reasons. So while it may appear that you have an 80% non-response rate - which might be seen as low. Optimistically speaking, I believe it is wonderful that, with the knowledge that many give to other charitable causes, a full 1/5th of the VFTT members are finding their way clear to give to this cause.

Peakbagr, I applaude you - You are resplendent in your candid approach as well as your tenacity.

 

[Peakbagr]

Fred,

Thanks, appreciate it. Chomp is entitled to his own opinion and can say whatever he wants, and I certainly take no offense.
I don't think I'm putting any words in Darren's mouth, all you need to do is read Darren's comments today in the site feedback section for his own thoughts.

For my own 2cts, demographically, MOST folks who can afford the gear, vehicles and travel expense that this hobby entails, have the disposable income to kick in here and there for charities. The who and where is of course their call.
And you're right, I did it to call attention to the ride.
........................................................................................................
I'm jumping back in to add more to this enthusiastic good cause.
One of the things that bothered me and generated my first post was not that 20% of us donated, its that only 20% took the time to even read Darren's pledge post. Statistically, a far smaller portion will donate.
Since I'm being called on another point, I'd like to address that as well. My family owns a home and we have bills like everyone else. We also have our own particular causes to donate toward(AIDS, heart disease and cancer), and we too don't donate to every charity that puts their hand out. On the other hand, if we judge how often some of us visit the board, let alone post, the involvement that many of us have with VFTT, as gauged by that activity is far different than the involvement we have with every charity that seeks a donation. Even taking my post for the attention-getter it sought to be, no one suggested that donating was mandatory. Darren wouldn't expect that, nor would I. I managed to get your attention, and if it ruffled some feathers, and generated some smoke, all the better.

PB

 

[DeadFred]

Just so no one misunderstands...

I sent a PM to Chomp earlier to let him know that I didn't intend to start any dustup with him in re: to his post. I was writing my diatribe in support of Darren's cause when his post came in. So even though it appears I wrote in response to his objections, it wasn't meant personally.

It WAS meant to offer my opinion re: the criticisms on this subject and why we should all chill out and understand the positive nature of Darren's and Peakbagr's efforts on behalf of BTR.

 

[Holdstrong]

Hey Fred - I've got a pot you can borrow man

Personally, This is not a charity issue for me. I have a few specific charities that are important to me and that I contribute to, and although the BTS is an awesome charity, it's not one of them. So for me this is a pragmatic issue, not a charitable one.

My donation is to help keep this site going. If Darren uses my donation to fund a charity - great! Then I feel even better about my donation.

But the point for me is that this site, and the people on it, are worth 3 or 5 bucks to me to help keep it going. I look at it this way: If this were a pay site, where I only got a UN and PW and access to the boards and trail conditions if I donated 3 dollars a year toward its upkeep..... would I pay? For me the answer is, absolutely. No doubt about it.

Thats how I look at this. If you dont want to contribute to the BTS because you have other charities you support, or if you dont think the site itself is worth 3 dollars a year..... thats cool. Don't donate. I bet a lot of us will though, and I am thankful for the reminders.

 

[chomp]

No worries on the DeadFred post. And FWIW Peakbagr, I just re-read this thread and my post did come off a bit more scathing than I meant it to be. My main concern is with the "hard sell" tatic. This is a great board, and there are obviously some great people here who jumped to the call to support Darren and TBTS. Why alienate those who didn't? That could potentially change the nature of the site, IMHO.

 

[jquackenbush]

I haven't checked this web site since January. I recently saw something from the NYSDEC and decided to start a new thread with poll to get input to help me formulate an opinion. Then I saw the thread: Web site for sale $5... Well I never met Darren but I thought this is one good guy with a good cause. VFTT is a well constructed web site. I have one of his Hawii photos in my screen saver rotation. The number of times I've checked this site to see if Pin Pin has broken a particular trail, well Darren deserves a donation. So I send a check payable to the BTS. I didn't sense any pressure tactics to donate. In my mind I hope Darren views the donations as support to continue to maintain this excellant web site. Peace

 

[Quietman]

Effective Fundraising

Let's look at this from a practical standpoint. The BTS needs money to support its research. Raising money costs money. Fundraising appeals that are mailed use tons of paper and other natural resources. Every 100 pieces of mail generates only 3-5 donations. Darren is using his OWN website as a very cost effective way of raising funds for a worthy organization. The $1,500+ that has been raised by him cost the BTS nothing and used very little paper as most donated online. As people who care about the environment, we should applaud this way of raising funds.
Do you respond to every appeal that is delivered to your mail box? Darren doesn't invade YOUR mail box or call YOU when you're eating dinner. You choose to visit HIS site. If you don't want to donate, then don't. No one will chastise you. But I find it hard to agree with those who chastise him or Peakbagr on this point.

By the way, I work for a very large non-profit organization and wish I could raise $1,500 without spending any of its money!!

 

[IndianChris]

Jees, take a chill-pill Chomp. It's for a GOOD cause.

 

[chomp]

Chris -

If you read the other post ($5) you would see that I defended Darren's methods for raising funds. It is this specific post that I have a problem with.

 

[stoopid]

On the other hand, if we judge how often some of us visit the board, let alone post, the involvement that many of us have with VFTT, as gauged by that activity is far different than the involvement we have with every charity that seeks a donation. Even taking my post for the attention-getter it sought to be, no one suggested that donating was mandatory. Darren wouldn't expect that, nor would I. I managed to get your attention, and if it ruffled some feathers, and generated some smoke, all the better. [/B]

The money's for a good cause. I don't think there's a presumption that in order to continue to be a member I HAVE to donate.

I have only donated to the American Heart Association, Big Brothers Big Sisters, and weekly to the United Way. I have, as Chomp suggested, drawn firm boundaries on donating any more. I have a private life that involves a lot of charity and altruism. No need to wave my gold membership badge for a lifetime of good deeds around...

 

[darren]

First off, Chomp is a cool guy that has bought me more than a few beers over the years. He's alright in my book.

I felt a little wierd when I posted the "website for sale" post because I don't like tricking people and then hitting them up for cash. But, since so few people read the original TBTS posts I felt I had to do something drastic to raise the attention level.

I didn't ask peakbagr to start this thread, but it appears that he recognized the same propblem I did. If you read Peakbagr's post you will see that he posted not because some people are not donating, he posted because a lot of people have not even read the posts requesting to donate. If only 20% read the posts and know about the ride for research, then that means 80% of the readers here dont even know that the event is going on. That is a shame.

I am afraid of negative feedback by getting in people's faces with my hand out too much, but I do appreciate peakbagr's effort.

I know it is fine line between asking for support and being an annoyance. I try not to be an annoyance, but then I only do this once a year and it will be over in a week...

As people have said, donate if you can or want to, but I wont hold anything against you if you dont.

- darren