Stoves

[Desalad]

I'm looking for a new stove. I'm considering the JetBoil, anyone here own/use one? Whatever I buy, it needs to work fairly well in freezing temps as I like to play in the snow Any other stove suggestions are welcome, the JetBoil just seems good as far as ease of lighting, and quick time to boil.

Thanks...

 

[rambler]

The key here is "freezing temps". I own a coleman exponet extreme, because I like the ease of that type of gas fuel that does not need priming. The giga power that works great in summer is not good in cold weather, but the exponent is...upto a point. Last winter with temps minus 19 degrees F , the exponent did work, but the flame was low looking like a stove that was running low on fuel, yet the cannister was full. Others who were using MSR Dragonflys had raging hot flames, melting snow at a fast rate. That stove sounds like a freight train, but if you are looking for reliability at low temps, that MSR passes with flying colors. At temps in the 20's the exponent extreme works fine, good price, too! Under trip reports, look for a report on the a hike in the Castkills. Someone had a jetboil. It was in the background in one of their group photos. I asked about the stove, but no reponse. Maybe you can find an e-mail address to one of the people in that group.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/s...tegoryId=314&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=245

 

[bobmak]

You need to melt snow for water in the winter, which usually means a 2-4 liter pot (it takes a lot of snow to melt 2 liters of water). I use a MSR XGK in the winter and a canister (Gaz I believe) stove in the summer. The Jet Boil sounds like it would be a wonderful stove for 3 season hiking, but I wouldn't want to stake my life on it in the winter. I think coleman fuel (white gas) is still the way to go.

 

[Rick]

Ditto on Bobmak & MSR. Though mine is a trusty old Whisperlite. I know that canister stoves have really made headway in the past 5 or so years, but I think that for hands down bitter-cold weather camping, you simply cannot beat a liquid gas stove for performance, speed and reliability . I haven't used a canister stove, but I have had folks bring them on cold weather trips and sometimes they work and sometimes not. I do seem to notice that time and again, it is the folks who bring liquid gas stoves that always seem to have penty of hot water for many in the group.
Good Luck with your decision

 

[Holdstrong]

I love - I mean LOVE - my Jetboil. Simple, light, convenient... It is everything that my Whisperlight International is not.

I love the way it packs, I love its quick boil times, and how many boils it squeezes out of one cannister. (I recently completed a Northville Placid thru hike with a partner and one cannister lasted us all the way to the last day). It is the perfect piece of gear for the solo hiker (or small group) who does not care about gourmet meals. I personally just boil water for my meals... no simmering and certainly no frying or anything like that.

BUT - here is the rub. I took it out over Thanksgiving weekend and the performance was shaky. Boil times were significantly increased to more than double that of warmer weather times - and this was at temps in the high teens to 20's and 30's. Cold and below freezing but nothing outrageous. In addition, after a night out there, a cannister with about 1/4 of the fuel used simply refused to start. Upon replacing it with a new cannister, the stove sputtered noticeable on start, flamed out, then started again. Now, I didnt take any precautions with these cannisters. I didnt warm them, or baby them in anyway. They were stuffed in my pack, not carried close to my body. But still, at that temp, I expected better performance.

This is not my final go at using the Jetboil in cold temps, I'm gonna try to find ways to improve its performance - but based on my first winter trip, this looks to be a 3 season stove.

I've always heard that cannisters are poor performers in colder temps, yet most mountaineering books I read (including some of Joe Simpson's classics) always reference using cannisters on their expeditions. Whats the deal with that?

 

[Warren]

Canister stoves configured as hanging stoves have been traditionally popular in climbing and mountaineering since they are the only stoves I know off that don't require a flat surface and are the safest to use in a tent. Usually the hanging rig has a windscreen and the lack of contact with the ground helps the canister keep pressure. There's also the trick where a small copper tube is taped to the canister so that it sticks up into the flame helping to keep the canister warm- a trick that comes with a series of warnings as it can lead to explosive results.

Th jet boil looks neat, the web page for that stove mentions it as the first in a series. I'm hoping they introduce a hanging version. It would go nicely with a hammock.

Anyway, I don't prefer a canister stove for the colder temps for that it's white gas. Your water supply is to important to leave it to a possibly cranky canister stove.

 

[ripple]

In the winter I have been very happy w/ Primus Himalaya Vari-Fuel stove. It is easy to use and has never failed. It is a solid stove, the pump is metal ( I believe MSR is plastic), and the stove stand legs are are pretty beefy, so I have yet to damage this thing. Weighs in at 14 oz. You can burn all sorts of liquid fuels, but I only use white gas. The things I don't like...It is a very loud stove and simmering is tricky.

 

[Panama Jack]

Didnt have good luck with Jetboil

My climbing partner had his jet boil out with us this weekend. It was my first chance to see one. It did not perform well. My Gaz Turbo 270 was like a torch though. He also seemed to go through an awful lot of fuel for the 1liter of water he boiled.

 

[percious]

Last year our MSR stoves forced us to retreat from marcy when the thermometer dipped below -20. We had a double failure, a simmerlite, and a whisperlite. This is an extreme case, but we discovered two things. First of all, make sure you lube your pump before heading out in the cold. Second, Make sure you keep the pump warm.

Fuel leaked out of the pump through the leather filiment inside which creates suction. The filiment shrunk in the cold, and since it was not lubed well, it failed to create a seal once it got cold enough. This caused us a minor fire at the Bushnell falls leanto, and we had to turn back, since we had no way of making water. This year we are going to try out a Brunton, with an all-metal pump. I would also like to try the Primus Himalaya, but that will have to wait till next year when I have better funding.

We have found that MSR Dragonfly's work the best out of the MSRs in the winter, they all have a similar pump however.

-percious

 

[bobmak]

Two reasons hanging canister stoves are used in climbing:

1. If you are at altitude, outside air pressure is lower. A canister stove works because of the higher pressure between of gas in the canister compared to the surrounding atmosphere. The reason canisters do not do well in cold weather is that the cold condenses the gas and therefore reduces the internal pressure in the canister. However, because at altitude the external air pressure is lower, there is still sufficient difference in pressure between the canister and atmosphere for the stove to work.

2. At lower altitudes, proper tent placement, a couple of bodies and a candle lantern or two can actually cause a significant increase in temperature in a tent relative to the outside; this helps to keep the gas in the canister from condensing. Once the stove gets going this adds to the heat. Of course, this means you are hanging your stove in the middle of the tent, melting snow and cooking in the same area you are sleeping in which can get to be messy. Also, flame ups can also spell disaster (this is not all that uncommon). I prefer to cook in my vestibule where a well placed kick can quickly move a stove outside.

 

[trailbiscuit]

I've had good experiences with the MSR XGK in the winter. It's like a blowtorch on steroids. (That's also why we switched to the Simmerlite for summer.)

 

[rtrimarc]

2 stoves

I for years used just a MSR Dragonfly, and it performed great in all conditions from 90 degrees to below 0. Great stove. But, it is heavy, and not quiet by any means. But it really does crank.

For my fall 04 NP Trail thru-hike, my GF surprized me with a MSR Superfly. Me and my hiking partner went thru one and a half canisters in the 9 days, boiling water for almost all of our meals. The thing worked great. We didn't experience temps under 25 deg, but it boiled water fast, was thrifty on fuel, and was very light.

So i am hooked on the Superfly for 3 season, and the Dragonfly for winter. Traditionally, i don't hike as far in the winter for camping, so the extra weight of the Dragonfly and its fuel and tank are not a big issue.

Seems like the JetBoil would be great for long distance hikers who need space and weight savings, are only boiling water for meals, hike in mild temps only, and does not have to cook for more than one or 2 people. I think i will stay away from it, but only because i often eat more than just Liptons. Its flexibility seems limited by its design. Not a bad thing, just not right for me. And i can't imagine boiling lots of water to purify it if the Pur Hiker goes down, or if i need to melt snow.

 

[Desalad]

Thanks all - I think I will stay away from the JetBoil (gotta give kudos to JetBoil for a heck of a marketing campaign though )

One of the guys I go with in the winter has a dragonfly (I think its a dragonfly) and while it definitely cranks, it sounds like a jet engine! I'll consider all your suggestions and let you know if and when I buy something. Thanks again

 

[masshysteria]

I've got to join in the chorus saluting the MSR Whisperlite. I had one for 15 years, bought a rebuild kit for it, and gave it to my son. Then went out and bought another one. I've used them in -20 temps and had good luck with them.

The one time I had a problem was when I was ice fishing last year. I couldn't get fuel into the feeder tube. The problem was that the fuel I was using was a couple of years old, was near the bottom of the can, so I think it had a lot of condensation in it. New fuel fixed that.

 

[Warren]

Fuel leaked out of the pump through the leather filiment inside which creates suction. The filiment shrunk in the cold, and since it was not lubed well, it failed to create a seal once it got cold enough.

I tend to check the leather cup before use if i remember. If it's too stiff I just lube it with a bit of spit. If it had shrunk like you describe, I probably would have popped the thing in my mouth for a few minutes and then spread it out a bit before use.

Never had a leak problem there. Are you sure it wasn't a gasket and leather cup issue? Even supple I wouldn't think that cup would provide a good seal against fuel. Have to look at mine when I get home..

 

[lumberzac]

I’ve had good luck in sub zero temperatures with both my Optimus Nova, and older 8R. The 8R is a little fussier due to the fact that it doesn’t have a pump so it takes a little longer for the gas to atomize properly.

 

[Neil]

In the winter I have been very happy w/ Primus Himalaya Vari-Fuel stove. It is easy to use and has never failed. It is a solid stove, the pump is metal ( I believe MSR is plastic), and the stove stand legs are are pretty beefy, so I have yet to damage this thing. Weighs in at 14 oz. You can burn all sorts of liquid fuels, but I only use white gas. The things I don't like...It is a very loud stove and simmering is tricky.

Ditto on all that plus I remember it being reasonably priced (80-ish CDN) I also bought a special padded bag for it for another 20. Adjusting the burn level is a bit tricky due to the delay in response.

 

[Rick]

Lumberzac,
I retrofitted my old and ancient Pheonix Backpacker (almost Identical to the 8r) with a midi pump - It really helps the old box stove heat fast in the winter. You can get the pumps for the optimus stoves Here
(I think they might also fit the Svea 123 as well)
they are a bit pricey, but if you love your stove but hate the output.....

 

[ajtiv]

I use a giga stove in the summer works well but for the winter I second the use of coleman gas in my MSR Simmerlite stove. Burns much better in cold weather
Al

 

[dave.m]

My vote for winter camping is white gas. More of my thoughts on skis are here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/Stoves.txt

Mostly this repeats much of what has already been posted.

Hope this is helpful.