spruce trap snow shelter

Thought I would ask some advice on this one... or at least see if anyone wanted to venture an opinon about it.
I see in the book "how to build an igloo" it says that it makes a good shelter and can be improved by adding more snow to the lower branches etc...

I have taken shelter under a spruce tree before esp. during a surprise snowstorm of a foot or more it was the 1st snow of that year so there was no shoveling involved..(probably the most I've ever "hugged" a tree)
I have often told myself that I could always dig down into the snow well around a tree if I had an emergency bivy.
but
I have a bit of a nagging memory of a fellow and his dog a few years back in the Whites. It didn't recieve much attention, but I think that's exactly what he did. He was rescued the next day and a follow up story told that he lost both his feet as they were frozen.
(It was discussed on these forums a little bit if I remember correctly)

So... has anybody used the spruce trap as shelter or made a shelter incorporating the tree as part of the "roof" of the shelter ?

Will it be warmer or colder?? Usually you read when sleeping in a Igloo that you should sleep on a "shelf" and let the colder air settle below.

Your thoughts ??

testing ...testing...
I think I'll be figuring this one out on my own....

spider solo said:

Your thoughts ??

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I haven't done it but I have a tree farm behind me and I've thought about it. I think it'd be quick shelter from a storm but (like you suggest) may pool cold air. Then there's that Jack London story... If we get a BIG dump of snow here I'll try it and see if I can record temps and such.

I used to live on a lot of land, and we built some ski trails and a shelter in the woods. We found a hemlock tree that had a few low branches that were dead. We broke those off, and incorporated it into a shelter. It was about 200 degrees around the tree. We piled snow on the backside and around some of the other branches.

We didn't camp in it. It was used more as a break spot and a place to pass a bottle or something warm to drink, etc. while we were out skiing.

So, I have done it. I haven't camped in it (although I had intended to), so I can't vouch how much colder it would be. However, if you look at the way hemlock branches hang, a nice little starter dome appear.

man dies snowboarding..

I just saw this on the channel 5 news website....

He was a young fellow from Mass, the thing is they believe he suffocated when falling into a tree well, If I read it correctly friends tried to get him out to no avail.

Re: man dies snowboarding:
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/15147982/detail.html

Doug

How horrible. I know there was some traffic on this topic here a few years ago, with regard to the possible consequences and what to do if victimized, but that's all I recall.

My first thought when I read the o.p. was: How would you get out of it once in? Does it have a walk-out basement?

On the other hand, I was camping last weekend and noticed that the snowplow had left a ten-foot high snowbank at the end of his run, and what a perfect heat reflector it would be for a fire. I would think that, if you could combine your spruce-trap/death-trap with a fireplace (and a walk-out), it might be quite cozy.

--M. said:

On the other hand, I was camping last weekend and noticed that the snowplow had left a ten-foot high snowbank at the end of his run, and what a perfect heat reflector it would be for a fire. I would think that, if you could combine your spruce-trap/death-trap with a fireplace (and a walk-out), it might be quite cozy.

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Don't be tempted to build a snow cave shelter in a plow pile. Some people got killed by a plow this way...

Doug

I have come across the suggestion of using spruce traps as a survival shelter. I carry an 8x10 nylon sheet. My thought is that it could be used as a roof to the tree shelter. There is also the possibility of tunneling into the snow walls at the base of the tree. The good news is that I have not had to try out these ideas.

I'm going to a workshop next weekend on this topic and hope to have a comfortable sleep in whatever I build on Saturday night. Just bought the book, too, to help round out what I learn. Seems like an important skill but also fun.

Having constructed and slept in snow shelters I would think if you slept high to trap heat and could enter low to drain out cold it would work. I carry a light weight tarp, jumbo plastic bag and a candle lantern which could help with any kind of improvised shelter.

Try it for fun several times so you know it works. That confidence and knowledge (panic protection) you gain may make the difference between life or death if you're ever get caught in a tough situation.

yes, but would you hollow out a spruce trap and use it for the night ?
I see in the book there is no view of an exit or entrance. I assume the thinking is the tree itself would allow enough ventilation around it's branches ..or not ??

eruggles ...I think we would be curious what their take on the idea is.
Figure realizing the importance of making a shelter or recognizing a natural one when we see it..so the big question is it good or more of a trap..Jack London style, as one person mentioned.
I always tell myself I would, and have slept under em but never dug down into the hollow for the night.

Actually what would an ideal "natural shelter be ? I would think one could use the tree roots of a tipped over tree as one side of a shelter and things along those lines. ....

spider solo said:

yes, but would you hollow out a spruce trap and use it for the night ?
I see in the book there is no view of an exit or entrance. I assume the thinking is the tree itself would allow enough ventilation around it's branches ..or not ??. ....

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I would modify the spuce trap the best I could to sleep high & warmer and have a low entrance for cold air to fall out.

I've done it.

I have used a big Spruce trap as a shelter. We incorporated a tent fly as a floor and did a fair bit of digging and piling snow around openings. We stayed in it for 2 nights before moving on. It was perfect.

Excellent ...I was hoping with this many people that somebody had already given it a try !

Neil said:

I have used a big Spruce trap as a shelter. We incorporated a tent fly as a floor and did a fair bit of digging and piling snow around openings. We stayed in it for 2 nights before moving on. It was perfect.

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Neil did you sleep in a deep hole, level spot or higher on a shelf?

We made a pretty big quinzee Saturday night in Andover, Maine. Six of us sat in it very comfortably, with room for more. Three of us slept in it overnight and it could have accommodated five, I think, but most of the group had set up tents and slept there instead. I was surprised that it didn't feel warmer during the night than it did. I had my 20 degreee bag and a Reactor liner and was a little chilly. I should have added another layer of clothing. I have to say that I enjoyed it anyway and that it brought me back to the days of my childhood when I foolishly dug "forts" into snowpiled bankings. I learned that air (vent) holes are vital, that the piled snow takes at least an hour to settle enough to dig into, that it makes a "whoomp" sound when it is continuing to settle, but that doesn't mean it is collapsing, one candle lights it up pretty well, that it's a lot of work for using just one night.

Little Rickie said:

Neil did you sleep in a deep hole, level spot or higher on a shelf?

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Hard to remember but I think we had to walk down into it a small amount. I don't think we derived much insulation from it. Just protection from the wind and a downright cool place to sleep.

eruggles said:

We made a pretty big quinzee Saturday night in Andover, Maine. Six of us sat in it very comfortably, with room for more. Three of us slept in it overnight and it could have accommodated five, I think, but most of the group had set up tents and slept there instead. I was surprised that it didn't feel warmer during the night than it did. I had my 20 degreee bag and a Reactor liner and was a little chilly. I should have added another layer of clothing. I have to say that I enjoyed it anyway and that it brought me back to the days of my childhood when I foolishly dug "forts" into snowpiled bankings. I learned that air (vent) holes are vital, that the piled snow takes at least an hour to settle enough to dig into, that it makes a "whoomp" sound when it is continuing to settle, but that doesn't mean it is collapsing, one candle lights it up pretty well, that it's a lot of work for using just one night.

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Sounds great...nothing like doing it to see what it's all about. Sounds plenty big to fit all those people.
I"ve yet to sleep in one and have always wondered if they felt a bit claustrophobic ?
About how long would you say it took to make ?

There were 10 of us building the quinzee and it took about an hour to shovel, then we waited for about 2 hours for it to settle, and then another hour to shovel the insides out. A few of us had avalanche type shovels, and they worked well, especially when the inside area was small (handles collapsed). Three people had cheapo small car shovels and two of them broke. One person had a "real" snow shovel with a scoop type bucket and that really helped us clear away the snow that was being pushed out of the interior. The snow that was pulled out was piled on either side as wind breaks. If we had been there longer we could have hollowed them out, too, for gear, etc. We kept one shovel inside with us, just in case. One of us had to leave for his tent in the middle of the night -- it was just too dark and quiet. Next time, he says, he'll be more aware of how to overcome those feelings of discomfort. We didn't close off the doorway with a pack or anything, which would have made it warmer, but would have added to the feelings of possibly being trapped inside.