A winter Long Trail attempt?

My mom just sent me a link to this article. Anyone know any more about this? Trail journal, blog, etc? Winter LT is something I've thought of before as being pretty sweet. I hope the attempt turns into a good story.

I'm sure it's doable with the right about of skill and perseverance.

I've hiked the Northville-Placid Trail in winter, but in sections. A few friends and I originally attempted to snowshoe it in one 2 week trip, but our plans turned out to be too ambitious. It took us 28 days of hiking, including 22 nights spent in the woods, in 4 trips over 2 successive winters to finish the entire 122 miles of the trail. It was seriously some of the toughest hiking I've ever done- 3-4 feet of unbroken snow (with 75 pound packs on our backs!), sketchy stream crossings, unexpected blowdown, etc... Some days we were lucky to make it 3 miles before we needed to stop and set up camp for the night.

There is an urban legend that a group of Navy Seals attempted the NPT in winter, but gave up and had to be air lifted out. It's a nice feeling knowing that we accomplished something that a group of Navy Seals gave up on.

The LT of course is different than the NPT, which has it's advantages and disadvantages. The LT is a lot less remote than the NPT, so trails are much more likely to be broken out by day hikers. But there is also a lot more elevation gain on the LT, which is sure to add difficulty.

Of course, this winter would be the winter to attempt something like this, since it hasn't turned out to be much of a winter after all!

Good luck to him on his trip.

The are lots of sections of the LT that receive little or no traffic during the winter, and it's not blazed for winter travel. Routefinding would most likely be pretty challenging on some sections.

Completing it in it's entirety during winter would be a very difficult, but awesome achievement.

Best of luck to them.

I did some hiking around the north section of the Long Trail in winter and it was frequently an exercise in fustration as the trail disapears with deep snow. There is some use to popular destinations but some times we were breaking trail up steep slopes in 4 to 5 feet of powder. Pretty embarassing to be out 8 hours and only do 4 or 5 miles out and back. I expect a real good GPS track might help but I remember a few spots going through thick spruce where I dont know what would have helped. Then again with this winters lack of snow it may not be as much of an issue.

Yeah, the LT can be a nightmare in winter on day hikes... Backpacking would be a beast. But I think it's far from impossible. The snippet of info in the article says they're taking 2 months, so that's an average of 4.5 miles a day. Of course, throw in a handful of zero days, and the average would be more like 5 or 7 miles a day, but that sounds possible to me. Definitely not easy, but not impossible, especially with the low snow this year. A good gps track of the trail would be invaluable once the snow builds up, too. I hope it goes well... even if unsuccessful, a good attempt would be a great story.

The LT has been section-hiked in winter by George Pearlstein (60s?) and Tom Sawyer and friends (80s?), let's just say they didn't use GPS and the trail was probably less-traveled then.

Obviously a single push without resupply or leaving the trail would be a different animal, but if this couple takes zero days in town and tops off supplies that's not so different from section hiking.

RoySwkr said:

Obviously a single push without resupply or leaving the trail would be a different animal, but if this couple takes zero days in town and tops off supplies that's not so different from section hiking.

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What?! Aren't a few "zero" days in town and resupply stops a pretty standard way to complete long distance hikes?

cushetunk said:

What?! Aren't a few "zero" days in town and resupply stops a pretty standard way to complete long distance hikes?

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Well yeah. No one ever said anything about going the whole way without stopping. Er... except Roy.

I've often daydreamed about something like this.

There are areas of the LT that get regular, even busy, winter use -- but more areas that stay very quiet. The trail can be totally elusive, especially at higher elevations. I think it would (will!) be quite an undertaking.

I received an email today from Vermonter Joplin James, who has evidently been working on this project for a few years, and is within 40 miles of completing the task as day hikes - obviously a bit different then doing it as a near-continuous hike while camping along the way, but impressive in it's own right.

Here is a interview with Joplin on VPR:

VPR News: Voices From The Trail: Joplin James

He has asked to join the forum, so hopefully we can hear from him first hand soon!

If there was ever a winter to do a LT thru-hike, this would be it -- relatively little snow cover and relatively mild temperatures.

The LT is not blazed for winter travel and very little of it is used in wintertime (Killington/Pico, Abe/Ellen, Camels Hump, Mansfield, Jay... and that's about it). I would guess fewer than twenty miles are regularly broken out. Last winter I went on a lesser/never traveled section and spent all day trying to get about 4 miles, losing the route a dozen times, sometimes for thirty minutes.

I've thought it would be a fun experience to attempt, but man...

It'll be fun to read about!

I'll join the chorus of those who point out the difficulty of route-finding in winter. One year I had to turn back on the Jerusalem trail (heading for Mt Ellen) once I gained the ridge because all the blazes were buried. It was pre-GPS days, so now maybe following buried white blazes along the ridges in a "regular" snow year would be easier.

Good luck if you attempt it.

blacknblue said:

The LT is not blazed for winter travel and very little of it is used in wintertime (Killington/Pico, Abe/Ellen, Camels Hump, Mansfield, Jay... and that's about it). I would guess fewer than twenty miles are regularly broken out.

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First, I suspect that many more sections are regularly broken out well enough to follow such as Stratton, Bread Loaf, and some ponds. I found previous tracks on Worth and Gillespie among others. Bromley was well broken and I met a future GMC president out for a walk. I'll be interested in what Mr. James says to this.

I'm one of the LT maintainers and as I work to official standards my section probably is not that easy to follow. Blazes are no longer to be in sight of each other and if you clear only 8' high for a tunnel effect in summer that leaves people wading through branches once the snow gets deep. If you blaze at eye level the blazes often wind up at knee level or occasionally buried entirely. My section is mostly in open hardwoods so you don't have the cut corridors you can follow in thick softwoods but in winter you can see the blazes a lot farther off.

Back in the 60s, the NH4k were a lot like the Long Trail is/was - not blazed for winter, heavy use on some peaks and others maybe not climbed every winter. People planning to do a winter hike would go out in the fall to memorize the route, and put up survey tape at key points - some said this should be removed on your winter trip and others thought you were doing the world a favor by leaving it up. If you did lose the trail, group members would fan out to find it. Somehow people managed to get up them. Now that the 4k are climbed more often, that draws out people that would rather follow tracks than make them, and the growth feeds on itself.

I'm not quite sure why the same thing didn't happen with the Long Trail. It would seem to me that the total mileage and elevation for winter Long Trail and winter NH4k or Adk46 would be of the same order of magnitude, assuming that the Long Trail was hiked one direction with car spotting. A group effort instead of solo on the Long Trail could provide that car spotting in addition to help routefinding and trailbreaking. But even if most segments are done up-and-back effecting doubling the distance, the physical effort should be less than that of the 111/114, NE100, or NH100 which are routinely completed in winter. Apparently peak-bagging is more attractive than trail-bagging even to Vermonters.

Is this likely to change? Many GMCers have climbed the NH4k and Adk46 in winter so there is a level of interest and ability in winter hiking in VT. The GMC sections could promote winter hikes of the segments they maintain, and the GMC could sponsor winter hikes as fundraisers like they did with a fake porcupine last summer. Inn-to-inn hiking with shuttles like the Catamount Trail could be provided for those disinclined to backpack.

RoySwkr said:

First, I suspect that many more sections are regularly broken out well enough to follow such as Stratton, Bread Loaf, and some ponds. I found previous tracks on Worth and Gillespie among others. Bromley was well broken and I met a future GMC president out for a walk. I'll be interested in what Mr. James says to this.

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Hi Roy, you're probably right that more sections than I indicated are more regularly broken out than I suspect. Maybe I just tend to hit them after storms. And certainly more side trails are broken out, though that doesn't help the thru-hiker.

FWIW regarding trail maintenance, I enjoy the fact that the LT isn't maintained for winter travel. Sometimes I do an LT hike instead of the Whites specifically to get away from the manicured snow conditions.

Thanks for your maintenance efforts; the LT is a gem!

Some years ago, probably around 15, "ridgerunner" posted a thorough report, with excellent photography, on a winter Long Trail traverse. If the VFTT archives can be retrieved from that far back I would say it is about as good a guide that you could ask for. Knowing Bertrand, he might have it available in French, too.

In any case, here's a link to Bertrand's google album but the LT is not on here. Hey! is the Long range close enough? He also has (had?) a personal website in which he has a narrative, en francais et un peu anglais, as well as good photography ... maybe one of the veterans VFTTers has that link.

https://plus.google.com/photos/1079...src=pwrd1#photos/107947173440570319085/albums

Stan said:

Some years ago, probably around 15, "ridgerunner" posted a thorough report, with excellent photography, on a winter Long Trail traverse. If the VFTT archives can be retrieved from that far back I would say it is about as good a guide that you could ask for. Knowing Bertrand, he might have it available in French, too.

In any case, here's a link to Bertrand's google album but the LT is not on here. Hey! is the Long range close enough? He also has (had?) a personal website in which he has a narrative, en francais et un peu anglais, as well as good photography ... maybe one of the veterans VFTTers has that link.

https://plus.google.com/photos/1079...src=pwrd1#photos/107947173440570319085/albums

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Thanks for the tip, Stan. I found his site here, and my brower (Chrome) did a fine French->English translation for me.

There were two Maine AMC leaders who put on a presentation last year about hiking the Maine AT in winter. It was as a series of weekend backpacking trips and day hikes, if I remember right, but still sounded pretty rugged. I think it took them several years to get it all, but it still sounded like a huge feat.

I wonder which would be more difficult... much of the AT in Maine is almost completely untraveled in winter, as well.

Roy, my guess as for why trailbagging on the LT is less popular than peakbagging in the Whites is just that there's less above treeline in the Green Mountains, so maybe people tend to think there's less of a view. Or something subconscious about the peaks not being as high in Vermont. Who knows.

RoySwkr said:

First, I suspect that many more sections are regularly broken out well enough to follow such as Stratton, Bread Loaf, and some ponds. I found previous tracks on Worth and Gillespie among others. Bromley was well broken and I met a future GMC president out for a walk. I'll be interested in what Mr. James says to this.

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Thanks for that interesting history and prospective on LT winter hiking. I'm one of those elusive VT winter hikers. Typically, except for Camels Hump and Mansfield, I'll see old tracks up to a 1/4 mile from the trail head and then they generally stop. I suspect that the northern sections where I tend to hike see more visitors than some other areas, but I would love to see the trail log statistics.

As others have mentioned, if there has ever been a winter to do an LT End-to-End, this is the year.