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Thread: Hotel on Mt Washington??!!

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    I grew up hanging out at Pinkham and the old cottages at the Crawford site. I frequent the Highland center for coffee and the bathroom's and it may just be me, but it does not give off a hikers vibe. It's a nice building, but it's so generic. I agree with the above statements in regards to an aging AMC. When I see an AMC sticker on car, 90% of the time, they are senior citizens. I think they would have been better served, making the Highland center more Hut in style. They could have built sections with bunks, offering just bunks and no food, making the cost more conducive to hikers that just want to crash, then go hike. Bringing in younger people, might grow their base. But, a lot of younger people and some older hikers, don't want to drop 75 bucks on a night. I would love to know the occupancy numbers for the HC.

    I understand this sentiment. But I have to state, that without the AMC and their amenities, it would have been difficult for a lot of us to get into hiking. Not all of us grew up in the mountains, or were lucky enough to have family or friends to introduce us to hiking/camping. I discovered the Highland Center about 10 years ago when I signed up for a yoga-hiking weekend. Both the yoga and organized hiking sucked, but the camaraderie and easy access to trails sparked something for me. I returned to the HC a few times over the next few years taking trail recommendations from their staff, which got me up most of the presidentials and and nearby 4000's. I eventually got brave enough to borrow a backpack from the gear room and do an overnight at LoC. I was so proud of myself! I've since graduated from AMC facilities, bought myself a tent and have mastered car camping. My next goal is an overnight at Guyot or similar. The more experienced I get, the more annoyed I get at the crowds. I only keep doing the 4000's because it brings me to new places in the Whites that I probably wouldn't have gone otherwise.

    Yes, the AMC facilities are geared towards the less experienced or less capable, but without them, many of us may never have gotten into this hobby.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Driver8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    I understand this sentiment. But I have to state, that without the AMC and their amenities, it would have been difficult for a lot of us to get into hiking. Not all of us grew up in the mountains, or were lucky enough to have family or friends to introduce us to hiking/camping. I discovered the Highland Center about 10 years ago when I signed up for a yoga-hiking weekend. Both the yoga and organized hiking sucked, but the camaraderie and easy access to trails sparked something for me. I returned to the HC a few times over the next few years taking trail recommendations from their staff, which got me up most of the presidentials and and nearby 4000's. I eventually got brave enough to borrow a backpack from the gear room and do an overnight at LoC. I was so proud of myself! I've since graduated from AMC facilities, bought myself a tent and have mastered car camping. My next goal is an overnight at Guyot or similar. The more experienced I get, the more annoyed I get at the crowds. I only keep doing the 4000's because it brings me to new places in the Whites that I probably wouldn't have gone otherwise.

    Yes, the AMC facilities are geared towards the less experienced or less capable, but without them, many of us may never have gotten into this hobby.

    Hear, hear! The huts can serve as a backstop for those of us less conditioned than we'd like and as a capability extender. There's little that's both human and ideal. The AMC offers decent services and, particularly with the huts, given their setting, at a more than reasonable price, imo, even though that price gets expensive for a whole family.
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  3. #153
    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    I grew up hanging out at Pinkham and the old cottages at the Crawford site. I frequent the Highland center for coffee and the bathroom's and it may just be me, but it does not give off a hikers vibe. It's a nice building, but it's so generic. I agree with the above statements in regards to an aging AMC. When I see an AMC sticker on car, 90% of the time, they are senior citizens. I think they would have been better served, making the Highland center more Hut in style. They could have built sections with bunks, offering just bunks and no food, making the cost more conducive to hikers that just want to crash, then go hike. Bringing in younger people, might grow their base. But, a lot of younger people and some older hikers, don't want to drop 75 bucks on a night. I would love to know the occupancy numbers for the HC.
    The AMC has a very clear plan: bring children and youth into the woods and teach them one can do something other than hunt and ride ATVs. This is what they're doing with school kids in Maine, and this is what they are doing with the Highland Center. You are correct, it is not designed to be Pinkham Notch. It is family-friendly, based on the idea that if children come up to the Whites or into the woods of Maine and learn to hike and respect Mother Nature, they are more likely to become hikers, or at least good stewards of the land later on.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amy View Post
    I understand this sentiment. But I have to state, that without the AMC and their amenities, it would have been difficult for a lot of us to get into hiking. Not all of us grew up in the mountains, or were lucky enough to have family or friends to introduce us to hiking/camping. I discovered the Highland Center about 10 years ago when I signed up for a yoga-hiking weekend. Both the yoga and organized hiking sucked, but the camaraderie and easy access to trails sparked something for me. I returned to the HC a few times over the next few years taking trail recommendations from their staff, which got me up most of the presidentials and and nearby 4000's. I eventually got brave enough to borrow a backpack from the gear room and do an overnight at LoC. I was so proud of myself! I've since graduated from AMC facilities, bought myself a tent and have mastered car camping. My next goal is an overnight at Guyot or similar. The more experienced I get, the more annoyed I get at the crowds. I only keep doing the 4000's because it brings me to new places in the Whites that I probably wouldn't have gone otherwise.

    Yes, the AMC facilities are geared towards the less experienced or less capable, but without them, many of us may never have gotten into this hobby.
    Agree 100 %.

    The AMC organization served as my passport to the Whites. From Day Hikes with the Worcester Chapter, to overnights in the huts, to overnights at the back country sites, to the Winter Hiking classes. I no longer need any of those supports/services but I am not sure I would be doing the trips I do today without them.

    Since I never hear much criticism of the RMC huts, I do wonder, perhaps unfairly, if some of the criticism of the AMC huts is due to their role in helping generate cash for the other AMC functions, rather than their function of concentrating usage.
    Last edited by Tom_Murphy; 07-13-2017 at 11:03 AM.

  5. #155
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    The AMC has a very clear plan: bring children and youth into the woods and teach them one can do something other than hunt and ride ATVs.
    Ha. No bias here... I am not a hunter or an ATV'er, but there is nothing wrong with those activities.

  6. #156
    Senior Member Driver8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    Ha. No bias here... I am not a hunter or an ATV'er, but there is nothing wrong with those activities.
    Um, bias? Ever consider that he guides for the AMC in part because he believes in its mission? That's not bias, per se, I'd suggest, it's conviction and commitment. Would be great if we all formed and stuck to convictions in like manner.
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8 View Post
    Um, bias? Ever consider that he guides for the AMC in part because he believes in its mission? That's not bias, per se, I'd suggest, it's conviction and commitment. Would be great if we all formed and stuck to convictions in like manner.
    I'm a fan of most of what the AMC does. For an organization that large, there are bound to be disagreements in philosophy and execution. Overall I think it's a net-positive, and one can always keep pushing to be better. The idea of 'sticking to convictions' however - I would disagree with. I think one ought to remain open minded to change and improvements, letting facts and evidence drive ones actions, as opposed to clinging to one's beliefs. This may be semantics though, as perhaps you meant it more broadly as something like, 'people shouldn't be ashamed to advocated for the prosocial causes they support'.

    The sticky part is whether the cause is truly prosocial. The aspect of bringing children into the woods should not be understated. My own experiences as a young person deeply impacted my love of nature. I was exposed to it and I enjoyed it. How is this different than indoctrination? Nothing was forced, and I was compelled to think critically about the relationship between myself and the woods; I am part nature. I think that people who see themselves as part of the world (as opposed to rulers of it) are more likely to take prosocial actions.

    The question of what impact staying at the proposed hotel will have on later generations is important, and difficult to answer. Will a kid who hikes up to Lonesome Lake gain more appreciation than one who takes a train up above treeline? Will the experience be marketed as one is in the 'worlds worth weather', or that they are 'conquering' it? Will guests be given educational opportunities? I think the fundamental difference between the proposed hotel and the AMC (and even the MWOBS) is the mission. I think building a hotel there would be a wonderful opportunity to develop a mission statement to let the public know about any greater purposes the owners are working towards.

  8. #158
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    The AMC has a very clear plan: bring children and youth into the woods and teach them one can do something other than hunt and ride ATVs. This is what they're doing with school kids in Maine, and this is what they are doing with the Highland Center. You are correct, it is not designed to be Pinkham Notch. It is family-friendly, based on the idea that if children come up to the Whites or into the woods of Maine and learn to hike and respect Mother Nature, they are more likely to become hikers, or at least good stewards of the land later on.
    Well, I certainly think that is a worthy mission. The YMCA did that very thing for me. A 7 day Wilderness trip. We slept in Hammocks, bushwhacked and climbed peaks. We crossed swamps, stepped in bee's nest and learned how to forage for plants. Some kids cried, some begged to go home, I was in heaven.

  9. #159
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    There is a legal notice in the Colebrook Chronicle today regarding changes to the Coos County Zoning Rules. The notice states to refer to the Coos County Planning Board Website for all the details but the webpage was not updated as of 8 AM today (7/14). Reading through the proposed changes in the notice there does not seem to be any softening of the regulations that would assist the Cog Hotel application if and when it is submitted. If anything there is some tightening of regulations.

    One in particular is that the County asserts that they have authority over private development on state owned land. I expect that is not applicable to the proposed Cog development but the state does own several parcels which might be ripe for allowing private recreational development on state land as the state DRED is chronically short of funding. As an example, the Lake Umbagog State Park upgrade scheduled for this summer was canceled when the bids came in too high. Jericho Lake State Park (the ATV park in Berlin) has a very substantial development plan with a very great demand for services but to date the development has been slowed by lack of capital funding. In either case I expect that a private developer might be willing to fund improvements in exchange for a major cut of the profits.

    If judged on the public efforts to date by the board, they are setting themselves up to have a fair hearing for the Cog hotel.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Barkingcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    There is a legal notice in the Colebrook Chronicle today regarding changes to the Coos County Zoning Rules.
    And, the results are in -- no substantive changes to the current zoning regulations, voted on unanimously by the planning board. These now head to the county commissioners for approval.

  11. #161
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    Good news but hope folks don't drop their vigilance. Fred King, who has lot of influence argued previously that the existing rules leave some leeway for a permit,

  12. #162
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    How much money do you think it would take to buy out the Cog and turn the land over to convert the land to NF?

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    How much money do you think it would take to buy out the Cog and turn the land over to convert the land to NF?
    Hope it isn't done soon..taking my Grandkids up it tomorrow morning... Love the Cog Love Hiking Love my 4 stroke Yami snowmachines,Love my Lance Truckcamper (hate camping on ground now)...
    Might as well take out Wildcat Ski area and all the rest...oh..take out the paved roads leading here from Ma. Ha.
    Hate extreme folks... Love Trump. Check Mate.

    Locals tell me AMC doesn't pay taxes ..shame on them if this is true..
    Last edited by CaptCaper; 08-06-2017 at 06:34 AM.

  14. #164
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    How much money do you think it would take to buy out the Cog and turn the land over to convert the land to NF?
    To be consistent with 'Pinkham's Grant' and 'Green's Grant,' it could be called the 'Bedor-Presby Grant.' I'm curious what the Abenaki were paid when their sacred mountain was taken in order to sell snow globes, chili dogs, and rides on a choo-choo train?
    Last edited by Raven; 08-06-2017 at 05:38 AM.
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    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    To be consistent with 'Pinkham's Grant' and 'Green's Grant,' it could be called the 'Bedor-Presby Grant.' I'm curious what the Abenaki were paid when their sacred mountain was taken in order to sell snow globes, chili dogs, and rides on a choo-choo train?
    They weren't paid ..they all died from the early White Men's diseases...so it was abandoned when we came... this what I got from the American Expierence movie on "Before the Pilgrims"

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