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Thread: Lidar Article with comments about the AMC 4K list

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    Lidar Article with comments about the AMC 4K list

    The article quotes Larry Garland about the potential disagreements between the prior map based list and the Lidar generated topo. He states that the 4k committee is sticking to the traditional list so we still have an excuse to 4K folks still get to see the exciting summits of Tecumseh and Suth Hancock while breezing past Guyot.

    https://www.conwaydailysun.com/outdo...060a311f2.html

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    Non-paywall link if needed:

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...060a311f2.html

    The 4K Committee made the decision to stick with the list a long while back, but people are still asking about Tecumseh. WMG 31 will have revised elevations for just about everything (summits, trailheads, etc.) where the data is known.

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    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    I've always been a fan of Guyot which is hardly a cheap peak to obtain. Perhaps its reputation has suffered somewhat because of its ill-defined double summit and its proximity to the more imposing Bonds. Seems like a no-brainer to switch it out for South Hancock which has long been questioned and never felt like much of a summit.
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

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    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey J View Post
    I've always been a fan of Guyot which is hardly a cheap peak to obtain. Perhaps its reputation has suffered somewhat because of its ill-defined double summit and its proximity to the more imposing Bonds. Seems like a no-brainer to switch it out for South Hancock which has long been questioned and never felt like much of a summit.
    It’s just a game and the rules are left up to a committee. Whether a peak is on a list or not one can still climb it. That’s why I personally hike my own hike and do my own hair splitting rather than worrying about collecting patches.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

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    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    It’s just a game and the rules are left up to a committee. Whether a peak is on a list or not one can still climb it. That’s why I personally hike my own hike and do my own hair splitting rather than worrying about collecting patches.

    Great reply. Really. Did they measure Mt Washington from the summit sign pile? it was piled up when they cleared a spot for the Tip Top house. Why not just put a few rocks at the top of Tecumseh and call it a day. It's just a game.
    Last edited by CaptCaper; 07-12-2022 at 09:42 AM.

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    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    I find it odd that the more data we have about the peaks, the less we use it.

    The 4K committee and the Catskill 3500 Club now both ignore data that clearly shows that their lists need to be revised, even after revising them in the past.

    The 46'ers at least have said for many years that they will not change their list.
    Tom Rankin
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    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Rankin View Post
    I find it odd that the more data we have about the peaks, the less we use it.

    The 4K committee and the Catskill 3500 Club now both ignore data that clearly shows that their lists need to be revised, even after revising them in the past.

    The 46'ers at least have said for many years that they will not change their list.
    That is why it is just a game. It is not based in fact or current information but by a subjective group of individuals. Which in turn makes the whole situation not worth taking too seriously for some piece of cloth to sew to the back of your pack. Also when the lists do change the previous ones are usually grandfathered. So really what is the point of chasing after breadcrumbs? For instance let’s say one of the brew pubs on the “Views with Brews” list closes down. What is the criteria? Does the list get shortened or does the now closed brew pub get replaced by a new pub and or mountain? Do previous finishers of the list now need to go back and do another hike and pub? If the alcohol level changes on the house special is that pub now eliminated.That probably would be a decision made by the creator of the list and or it’s administrators. Maybe not a directly proportioned analogy but personally this is why I don’t take the whole listing thing too seriously. The rules are made by someone else and if you want to play their game you play by their rules whether they are objective or not. The only thing that is important is that your having fun. Which is what hiking IMO should be rather than loosing sleep over some game an individual has no control over. Kind of reminds me of a time when I was doing The AT up through Rangeley Maine. I was having one of those days where I just couldn’t get my rhythm going. I met another hiker whom was moving in the same direction after we had been leap frogging each other most of the morning. When we both finally stopped to rest in the same spot. He also had been dragging along when he exclaimed to me….”Good thing they call this fun. Otherwise it would be work”!
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    That is why it is just a game. It is not based in fact or current information but by a subjective group of individuals. Which in turn makes the whole situation not worth taking too seriously for some piece of cloth to sew to the back of your pack. Also when the lists do change the previous ones are usually grandfathered. So really what is the point of chasing after breadcrumbs? For instance let’s say one of the brew pubs on the “Views with Brews” list closes down. What is the criteria? Does the list get shortened or does the now closed brew pub get replaced by a new pub and or mountain? Do previous finishers of the list now need to go back and do another hike and pub? If the alcohol level changes on the house special is that pub now eliminated.That probably would be a decision made by the creator of the list and or it’s administrators. Maybe not a directly proportioned analogy but personally this is why I don’t take the whole listing thing too seriously. The rules are made by someone else and if you want to play their game you play by their rules whether they are objective or not. The only thing that is important is that your having fun. Which is what hiking IMO should be rather than loosing sleep over some game an individual has no control over. Kind of reminds me of a time when I was doing The AT up through Rangeley Maine. I was having one of those days where I just couldn’t get my rhythm going. I met another hiker whom was moving in the same direction after we had been leap frogging each other most of the morning. When we both finally stopped to rest in the same spot. He also had been dragging along when he exclaimed to me….”Good thing they call this fun. Otherwise it would be work”!
    Smokey, this is not 'Nam.

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    Keep it up fellas and they will take back the certificate they awarded you.

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    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    Keep it up fellas and they will take back the certificate they awarded you.
    What certificate?
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    What certificate?
    The cert that says you climbed all of the 4K's. You DO have one, don't you?

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    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    The cert that says you climbed all of the 4K's. You DO have one, don't you?
    Wow...... you get a certificate too?
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Wow...... you get a certificate too?
    Well, you used too. And some patches!!

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    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Wow...... you get a certificate too?
    I still have mine on the wall in my gear room from the year 1982.

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    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    It’s just a game and the rules are left up to a committee.
    With all due respect, allow me to offer a different perspective. When you want to understand the actions of individuals inside an institution, start by reflecting upon their incentive structure.

    You have a bunch of folks on a committee whose primary task is to send out patches and certificates to people who attest to having hiked certain mountains in certain time periods. Committee members literally have to check calendars for winter patches, for example. The people who do this take satisfaction from it.

    Then one day someone tells them that they have a new task: determine how many "mountains" there are for the main patch. It's no small task! If the members add mountains, there are implications for environmental impacts, parking, and so forth. They grandfather existing patch holders in.

    No imagine those folks have to ask themselves if they should take a mountain away!

    What rewards do they get for doing so? What costs?

    Who will say to them, "Thank you for taking two mountains off this list!" Now imagine, who would be furious at them?

    So someone, somewhere, on the 48 Committee or elsewhere, is now tasked with a decision: either drop two mountains and now have "The New Hampshire 46," or keep the status quo ante and recognize that until this point, we got on with our hiking lives just fine in our ignorance.

    I just don't see a lot of incentive to take the two off the list.

    Brian

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