What should be in the first aid kit?

Chip said:

This is interesting. I know group leaders can get signed waivers, like school nurses do, if anyone is allergic, but there doesn't appear to be any requirement that a doctor does the injection.

Click to expand...

You are correct. In Connecticut there is explicit protection in the state statutes for school nurses and I believe even teachers have legal protection.

Now, as well as not being a doctor, I am also not a lawyer. But, these protections are for mistakes. Not willful neglect or gross negligence. They can make mistakes but not do really out of the blue bizzare stuff.

On the other hand. If you are an EMT on an ambulance or a Nurse working in a ER. My ability to give an epi-pen or a PA to do minor surgery is because the supervising Doctor has allowed this to happen. He is attesting by his license that he has verified that the person doing this is competant to do so, as well as the state board. The state certifies that I have the basic skills to be an EMT (or a Nurse) but to "practice" I technically have to be under a doctors control. That doesn't neccesarily mean the doctor has to be in the same room. I can have doctors "standing orders" that allow me to do things depending on what situation I find myself in and I can always raise a doctor on the MED radio in a matter of seconds. There are also state protocols that I follow or the control doctor can modify those orders as he sees fit. He is the doctor.

Keith

This is interesting. I know group leaders can get signed waivers, like school nurses do, if anyone is allergic,
but there doesn't appear to be any requirement that a doctor does the injection.
The whole idea with Epipens is that the person who needs it will require it before a MD is available.

Click to expand...

I worked as an EMT at a summer camp on Lake George had standing orders from the camp doctor regarding epi pens. I just had to call her ASAP afterwards. She actually told me that the best way to cover my a-- was to have the kid either do it themselves, or have them hold the epi pen and look away while I "helped them". I don't know if this would have mattered to a jury, but that's what I was told to do.

Quack said:

was to have the kid either do it themselves, or have them hold the epi pen and look away while I "helped them". I don't know if this would have mattered to a jury, but that's what I was told to do.

Click to expand...

It does. You (an EMT) is allowed to "assist" a patient who has their own prescribed epi-pens or nitro depending on your local protocols and doctors orders. The level of "assistance" may vary depending on the condition of the patient. The difference is that she was talking about their own pen prescribed to a particular person (I believe) as opposed to us coming upon someone with no prescription who is suffering anaphylaxis and using a pen on them.

Keith

I am curious what you/they actually did do and how well did it heal?

Click to expand...

We were on the first night of a week long trip and our camp was 7 miles from the road. It was dark when I cut my foot, so we were doing first aid by headlamp and not gonna hike out at night.
The guy made sure he cleaned every bit of dirt out of the cuts, then dried and bandaged them, then we watched to see if it would bleed thru. That was when they told me I would have to go home the next day, but first I'd have to hike a few miles to get to a road where someone else could hike out and see about getting me a ride to a doctor (and eventually home).

I didn't see any sense in seeing a doctor, and frankly, I think the trip leader was just PO'ed because her trip was falling apart. She didn't find out til on the trail that we had an asthmatic, a person with very bad knees, and a coupla outta shape participants, not too mention some very heavy backpacks.
It was a college trip, used to fulfill one of the electives for my degree, so for several reasons I didn't want to leave. Didn't think it was necessary for one thing.

I got up early the next day, put my boots on and walked around to show that I could. I had some pain, but not enuff to keep me off my feet. (as an aside, almost every member of the group came up to me and said that if I left, they wanted to go too, LOL) I told the leaders that if the group didn't mind, I'd like to stay and see how the next few miles went. It was fine, and we went on.
I kept it clean, changed the bandages, finished the trip. It healed fine, but I suppose I have a scar on the bottom of my toe.

The difference is that she was talking about their own pen prescribed to a particular person (I believe)

Click to expand...

Yes, this is true.

twigeater said:

The guy made sure he cleaned every bit of dirt out of the cuts, then dried and bandaged them, then we watched to see if it would bleed thru.

Click to expand...

Sounds like he did a good job of wound care. Glad to hear you had no other or any long term problems.

twigeater said:

She didn't find out til on the trail that we had an asthmatic, a person with very bad knees, and a coupla outta shape participants

Click to expand...

Bad planning on her part IMHO. Trip leaders should always know what medical conditions/allergies/medications that the people they are taking on a trip have well ahead of time.

At least that is my opinion.

Keith

Bad planning on her part IMHO. Trip leaders should always know what medical conditions/allergies/medications that the people they are taking on a trip have well ahead of time.

Click to expand...

I agree, especially as a Maine Guide. Though I wonder if some of these things came to light on the trip.

One thing about the class though - in order to have the trip be part of a class for degree credit, it had to be about something more than backpacking. (It was actually a very touchy feely class that I balked at talking for a few years until my co workers talked me into it. And my office paid. ) We had 6 or 8 classes prior to the trip and there was little about backpacking, other than what to bring. I brought in my packed backpack and we went thru that, telling why I packed stuff where I did, etc...

compact mouth barrier(american red cross)
pair of disposable gloves
moleskin
duct tape
bacitracin
bandaids
waterproof matches
steri strips
ace bandage
sm.bottle of castile soap
alcohol wipes
sewing needle/safety pins
sm pkg. of GU (conc. sugar)
otc pain relievers(advil/tylenol/ aspirin)
benadryl-allergic reactions
tums
pencil
rubberbands/twist ties
extra batteries
extra sm/lg ziplock bags
sm washcloth or bandana
knife
aqua tabs
sm. bottle hand sanitizer


carry everything in a plastic zip lock inside a sm poly gear bag.
remember,if you second an item--you are for sure going to need it!!

Excellent thread. My first aid kit is fairly large, after taking a WMA Wilderness First Aid course, and includes a SAM splint. I also carry note cards for taking and keeping a history of someone who is ill or injured. ER docs appreciate accurate and complete written information. I have carried it a lot, and, thank goodness, only used it a few times. I have, however, felt confident that I could help someone who got hurt. I worry more about being underprepared than I do about the weight.

explorer13421 said:

...My first aid kit is fairly large, after taking a WMA Wilderness First Aid course, and includes a SAM splint...

Click to expand...

I have not generally been carrying a SAM splint because of the weight and the ability to improvise splints with other items. Last week, My wife slipped on a wet root and sprained her wrist pretty badly. I used the SAM splint on her when we got home and it really worked great. I'm considering bringing it more often now. Does anyone else usually bring one or consider it an essential?

SAR-EMT40 said:

Sounds like he did a good job of wound care. Glad to hear you had no other or any long term problems.



Bad planning on her part IMHO. Trip leaders should always know what medical conditions/allergies/medications that the people they are taking on a trip have well ahead of time.

At least that is my opinion.

Keith

Click to expand...

Keith that is very good advice . I tell any one I hike with that I have medical condtions ,where exatly they can find my medication and to ask me if I am ok every so often . I also explain that If I should seem to be "spacing out" to tell me ot take my medication and ask if it is ok to go on . . I Generally know if I am going to have a problem I have learned just what to expect and what it means. and turn around though.

RGF1, very good. I know that I would want to know ahead of time. Like I said I would ask ahead of time to know what to look out for or if someone passes out or has a seizure, what the possible reasons might be. Helps keep everyone safe.

Keith

Halite said:

I have not generally been carrying a SAM splint because of the weight and the ability to improvise splints with other items. Last week, My wife slipped on a wet root and sprained her wrist pretty badly. I used the SAM splint on her when we got home and it really worked great. I'm considering bringing it more often now. Does anyone else usually bring one or consider it an essential?

Click to expand...

I carry one in my med bag in the town but don't carry one in my personal hiking med kit. We also carry several on the ambulance, primarily for mass casulty events. They are great but bulky. They also can be cut with trauma shears to make smaller sizes for fingers (or toes ) I don't carry them in general in the woods, again, because of the bulk but do carry several of them if going to a specific medical/trauma scene. Their really isn't anything they can do that can't be improvised out in the field but they can do it faster and easier and usually more comfortable than the improv stuff.

Keith

I have a Sam splint but haven't carried it in a few years.

SAM s

explorer13421 said:

Excellent thread. My first aid kit is fairly large, after taking a WMA Wilderness First Aid course, and includes a SAM splint. I also carry note cards for taking and keeping a history of someone who is ill or injured. ER docs appreciate accurate and complete written information. I have carried it a lot, and, thank goodness, only used it a few times. I have, however, felt confident that I could help someone who got hurt. I worry more about being underprepared than I do about the weight.

Click to expand...

explain to me what a SAM splint is? never heard of it and i took the wilderness first aid course.....thanks

SAM splint is a bendable, foldable, foam lined rectangular piece of (I think) lightweight aluminum that comes in several sizes. When shaped to person's arm or leg can be quite rigid. They are very adaptable. I used one this winter to splint broken radius and ulna by running from back of arm around elbow down forearm and folded back over hand, bending parts into a U shape to go around the arm parts and secured by ACE bandages over the kid's clothing as there was no way I was going to try to pull the clothing off. It worked really well. Other options like pack stay or piece of foam pad would not have been as quickly applied or easily shaped to conform to the kid.

explorer13421 said:

SAM splint is a bendable, foldable, foam lined rectangular piece of (I think) lightweight aluminum that comes in several sizes. When shaped to person's arm or leg can be quite rigid. They are very adaptable. I used one this winter to splint broken radius and ulna by running from back of arm around elbow down forearm and folded back over hand, bending parts into a U shape to go around the arm parts and secured by ACE bandages over the kid's clothing as there was no way I was going to try to pull the clothing off. It worked really well. Other options like pack stay or piece of foam pad would not have been as quickly applied or easily shaped to conform to the kid.

Click to expand...

thanks~i will be sure to add the SAM to my kit.

kmac said:

thanks~i will be sure to add the SAM to my kit.

Click to expand...

A stiff closed-cell foam pad makes a good magazine splint. Unfortunately, many of the closed-cell pads sold today are too soft.

Good for stabilizing long bones or knees. I have used same to stabilize a knee with ligament damage.

Not a sam splint, but covers some of the same injuries and you might just have one with you...

(A magazine splint is a magazine (or similar somewhat stiff sheet) folded into a U-shape around the damaged limb. )

Doug

splint~magazine

DougPaul said:

A stiff closed-cell foam pad makes a good magazine splint. Unfortunately, many of the closed-cell pads sold today are too soft.

Good for stabilizing long bones or knees. I have used same to stabilize a knee with ligament damage.

Not a sam splint, but covers some of the same injuries and you might just have one with you...

(A magazine splint is a magazine (or similar somewhat stiff sheet) folded into a U-shape around the damaged limb. )

Doug

Click to expand...

thanks~ might prove to be lighter in wt than the splint~and serves two purposes ~

crazy glue is bad for you...

ripple said:

Crazy glue is a must for med kits.

Click to expand...

Crazy Glue or Super Glue is toxic. It you use it on an open sore to seal it closed you run the risk of posioning yourself. 2nd skin is almost does the same thing, but is a lot safer for you. There is also an arosal can spray 2nd skin that works great.

Personally I bring little things...

- Duct Tape on my water bottle.
- 2nd skin to apply on open cut sore before applying duct tape.
- Gause 2X2's and rapes.
- Mini Leather Man which is considered part of my med kit on top of other parts of my gear.


My wife did recently purchase me a solo med kit from REI. I bring it now to please her along with the other items, but I have no idea what is in this new kit I bring.