Nalgene and Health Problems?

I tried searching for the discussion on the effects of the nalgene bottles on health concerns and couldn't find the thread. Does anyone have the links giving info on which nalgene bottles are suspect? I was under the impression the older white opaque ones were the "bad" ones and the newer clear colored ones were fine. I also remember a link giving info on how the whole nalgene thing was a hype and there is no health concern, a link to that would be appreciated as well. Thanks guys,

sli74

Google-ing the business about Nalgene bottle risks, I found numerous articles. What I consider the most informative (from a layman’s perspective) can be seen at these links:

Article 1.

Article 2.

Synopsis:

a) Warnings about Nalgene bottle risks stem from 2003 publication of a study by Dr. Patricia Hunt, of Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. Hunt has spent years researching “developmental abnormalities leading to miscarriage and birth defects in mice.”

b) In 1998 Hunt observed that mice in her laboratory suffered a rapid, evidently spontaneous increase in abnormal gain or loss of certain chromsomes. This abnormality is associated with miscarriage and birth defects both in mice and in humans.

c) Hunt traced this to a lab worker who was using a harsh detergent in cleaning polycarbonate laboratory containers associated with the mice. The plastic leached a chemical called bisphenol A (BPA) which has been implicated in chromosonal changes such as those that occurred in Hunt’s lab mice.

d) A University of Missouri study publicized in 2003 said that used or discolored polycarbonate bottles produce high amounts of BPA at normal room temperature. It also said new bottles produce detectable levels of BPA at that temperature.

e) Warnings which result from these studies apply to Nalgene’s polycarbonate or “Lexan” bottles -- the hard ones that come in nice colors.

f) The warning doesn’t apply to Nalgene’s high density polyethylene (HDPE) bottles. These are the milky-colored, semi-flexible bottles.

FWIW.

G.

I remember the thread, I can't find it either. In google, searching on "nalgene health" brought up too many articles to post here. The ones I skimmed seemed to fall mainly into two categories: alarmist, and others that stated given normal use, health issues weren't likely.

It'd be interesting to find out whether and what kind of testing has been done since the initial scare. The original showed leaching of bisphenol-A (BPA) into the environment in which lab mice were living, after an abnormal cleaning of polycarbonate mouse cages. The mice showed chromosomal abnormalities. One article said that the scientist that reported this later stated that no conclusions regarding polycarbonate water bottles should be based on her results.

I started hiking quite awhile ago and began with a quart bottle(s) purchased at REI. They would last for considerable time. You may remember seeing those things, the sides were ribbed with a green top and red loop to use as a grip or whatever. Then came the nalgene bottles at a fancy price along with a few others, wide mouth type at usually high prices. Normally I'd carry one perhaps two of those old REI bottles and one weekend we were almost to Newcomb on the drive to a backpacking weekend starting at the Upper Works when I discovered I had forgotten those old REI bottles. As you know in the Newcomb area there is a shortage of backpacking supply shops but in Minerva there is Murdies General Store. There I found a wonderous item! Pepsi in one liter bottles. Two of those puppies lasted for several trips and work quite well. The bonus is that when they begin to wear you get your nickle back.

Dugan said:

I remember the thread, I can't find it either. In google, searching on "nalgene health" brought up too many articles to post here. The ones I skimmed seemed to fall mainly into two categories: alarmist, and others that stated given normal use, health issues weren't likely. . . .

Click to expand...

I agree with your categories into which articles on this topic can be placed. The concensus of them, though, seems to be that the polycarbonate (Lexan) material does leach bisphenol-A (BPA). How serious a threat to human health this is (if it is one) certainly remains open to question and debate.

It was reassuring to read that the high density polyethylene (HDPE) Nalgene bottles are quite inert and do not pose the questions that have been raised about Lexan. I breathed a great sigh of relief on that score since some of the bottles I use have been in service 30 years or more . . ..

G.

AntlerPeak said:

. . . Normally I'd carry one perhaps two of those old REI bottles and one weekend we were almost to Newcomb on the drive to a backpacking weekend starting at the Upper Works when I discovered I had forgotten those old REI bottles. As you know in the Newcomb area there is a shortage of backpacking supply shops but in Minerva there is Murdies General Store. There I found a wonderous item! Pepsi in one liter bottles. Two of those puppies lasted for several trips and work quite well. The bonus is that when they begin to wear you get your nickle back.

Click to expand...

One of the articles I cited above notes that: “Single-use water bottles (the type bottled water is sold in) made from polyethylene terephthalate, ‘#1 PET’ or ‘PETE’ are not recommended for repeat use, as a study found they may leach a carcinogenic substance known as DEHA.” I think this probably applies to the plastic soft drink bottles, too.

No Chicken Little, here. Just passing along information that I've gathered on the topic.

Here's to yah. Drink up!

G.

This fear/scare arises every now and then. Nalgene has a rebutal on their web site. IIRC, the gist of it is that they use food grade plastic in their bottles, the leaching problem was limited to non-food grade plastic bottles.

Doug

Grumpy said:

e) Warnings which result from these studies apply to Nalgene’s polycarbonate or “Lexan” bottles -- the hard ones that come in nice colors.

f) The warning doesn’t apply to Nalgene’s high density polyethylene (HDPE) bottles. These are the milky-colored, semi-flexible bottles.

FWIW.

G.

Click to expand...

Excellent !!! Just what I was looking for . . . a synopsis of the hundreds of google hits.

I personally don't place too much weight on the human risk of this finding without further study and probably wouldn't use the bottles if/when I would be worried about potential side effects BUT a friend of mine wanted information about the health risks of the nalgenes based on her mother's concern so I decided to post and ask instead of trying to wade through all the info again.

Thanks again everyone !!!

sli74

Here’s a link to Nalgene’s web page on the topic:

Nalgene & BPA

I've said enough now.

(Maybe.)

G.

Grumpy said:

...
e) Warnings which result from these studies apply to Nalgene’s polycarbonate or “Lexan” bottles -- the hard ones that come in nice colors.

f) The warning doesn’t apply to Nalgene’s high density polyethylene (HDPE) bottles. These are the milky-colored, semi-flexible bottles...

Click to expand...

From prior posts, I could have sworn it was the opposite.

Remember as a side note that technically "Lexan" is Lexan and "Polycarbonate" is Polycarbonate.

Mr. X said:

From prior posts, I could have sworn it was th opposite.

Remember as a side note that technically "Lexan" is Lexan and "Polycarbonate" is Polycarbonate.

Click to expand...

I could also swear it was the other way around but I cannot remember for the life of me where I read that . . . I still continue to use my pretty nalgene bottles because seriously I am not convinced the issue poses any real and immediate threat in humans but is something to keep in mind and consider.

sli74

sli74 said:

I could also swear it was the other way around but I cannot remember for the life of me where I read that

Click to expand...

It is human nature for the scare to be easier to remember than the much less dramatic resolution...

Maybe it is just an aging memory in reverse, but I remember it as much ado about nothing (a false alarm).

Doug

Well, I was surprised in my reading that it was the harder, polycarbonate containers implicated in those studies, and not the softer polyethylene (HDPE) ones. So much for what we sometimes “know” by intuition!

BTW, Lexan is a polycarbonate, but not all polycarbonates are Lexan. Lexan is a trade name for a polycarbonate plastic resin produced by General Electric.

I’m in agreement with those folks who aren’t about to panic and dispose of their water bottles (properly, one hopes) because of these reports. But it’s also good to be aware of such things, don’t you think?

(Glad I said “maybe” about a post above being enough and my last on this topic. Perhaps this one will be my final final word!)

G.

A better way to search for old deleted "VFTT" thread is to use google's advanced search page

Enter vftt.org in the domain field and your search criteria acording to your needs. (ie. exact phrase, all the words etc.).

Hit Google search on that same page.

Many of the hits will be useless dead ends (some will work, many will not) unless you click on "cached". It will give you a snapshot of the page in question.

From there click on "view full version". I entered "Lexan Nalgene"

and -BINGO-

Try it on any old thread your looking for. Google is the bomb

to be fair, I must credit Neil, he taught me this one

I posted that initial thread from an e-mail (or scare-mail) I had received, and the thread brought alot of good discussion forward. I still use my pretty Lexans but do not put them in the dishwasher anymore (plus, half of them are wrapped in duct tape). I would believe the human bottle Lexan and lab mice ones are different compositions, and the human ones (three sardonic cheers for what the lawsuit happy human can achieve) are undoubtably safer. Someone posted in that thread that they are "completely safe". That I don't buy, but reasonably safe I do. They say the human body of today has stores of hundreds of chemical compounds in our fat cells that have never been in humans before. Only time will tell how much the human body can take. After what i've put my body through already, and the fact that I can still climb mountains like the peak junkie that I am, that gives me hope...

Very nice tutorial, Mavs.

Now, if I can only get that Google Earth download.

Somewhat related

A few months ago we were warned at work that Johns Hopkins had banned microwaving food in plastic dishes for all their workers and patients. Turns out, Johns Hopkins labeled this an urban myth and said all plastic labeled safe for microwave cooking is safe but don't use things like cole slaw containers and margarine tubs which were not designed for that purpose. They can leach chemicals.
Similarly, and another poster mentioned a warning about this, don't reuse bottled-water bottles. I used to do that and noticed that they got increasingly softer and more flexible with use. Eventually, they will start to leak. Obviously, that's not the worst part because something is clearly decaying or changing as they age. Perhaps, it's a chemical reaction to flouridated and chlorinated water.

This concerns me greatly!

I've drank from a nalgene bottle (not the same one) daily for about 7 or 8 years. I usually use a hard plastic one. Should I be nervous or get tested for anything?

I've never had one of those Nagelene bottles. My wife drinks Polar seltzer water in quart bottles. I keep two during the week use them for one hike. I never trusted the idea of reusing plastic bottles, but now that I've read this thread

Thanks, all, and Happy Trails and Happy Independence Day! Go USA!!!