A little info About Timbering

[RGF1]

I hope this is ok to post. It is not a Anti AMC rant or the like. It is about logging and how it is done on national forests at least in the ones I have worked on. Because of some common misconceptions
First you have to get a permit they vary in price from a few 100 bucks to thousands of dollars depending upon the size , location , type of cut and how the land will be used after the cut .
Second once you get the contract or bid. You have to work with a USFS forester . He inspects all of your equipment you have ot have spark arresters and up to date safety equipment on o your saws and personal protective gear. on all saws and other equipment. Such as a skid steer, skidder etc. You can usually only log trees thy make and you can only log when they allow you to . Usually not in the Summer.. It is lengthy and time-consuming g you have to submit All sorts of environmental impact statements or studies. Although if you work with them this can be minimized. The proposal I mention would have created XC ski trails I would have cut and removed all the stumps. ! I would have had a forester check on my progress and make sure I was not doing any thing wrong. I also would have to finish with in the time allotted .
You can only cut during certain hours so as to minimize impact on wild life though they seem to know that a cut means more sprouts coming up and easy access to food once out of reach. And linger at the edges. While you work, oddly enough.
Many pople do not know that selective timbering is A) very hard work as it is often done with a chainsaw not a machine known as a feller buncher which can strip and in short order.. B) Once timbering is done the grow back attracts moose, deer, lots of birds, hawks small rodents and more. C). a part of why selective timbering is done is because if fire suppression we over did it and now our forests are timber boxes ready to go up . So It is done in areas that are close to population, as are the prescribed burns. If done right selective timbering and prescribed burns can reduce the threat of a fire yes they do happen in the WMNF one did recently.
Not all timbering is bad and destructive. Timber is renewable resource that is managed soundly will last for many generations.
Remember when you enjoy that wood fire. It was cut by a guy like me not a big timber company they cut for board timber that is used for pulp wood, alcohol no not the stuff you drink, and of course furniture. And building supplies. I could never work on that scale. Also I sell a good amount of my wood chips to a place that burns them as biomass. Sometimes I get some one who wants them for wood pellets that are also used for heating. I feel as if I am helping the environment and reducing demand on fossil fuels. Maybe you do not like to see a area cut but you live in a house that was made out of wood. you have furniture that was made from wood . It is more than just cutting to make paper. Please think about that before you fire off a flame about logging and loggers we are the guys that clean up the mess after a storm we cut that hazardous tree near your house. We also replant as I am trying to expand in to doing I want ot start planting trees that are better suited for a residential area than some. Or even build living hedges. . We are not mad men raping the land but mostly Joe Six pack trying to earn a living. Just that we do it out doors in a often dangerous setting out of sight and mind of every one. You don’t see us, be it t in the working forest or at 2 am clearing a huge blow down near live wires. !

 

[Chip]

I like your points about how wildlife is impacted. I think VERY few people understand what poor habitat mature forests are. It might be counter-intuitive, but all the development in the northeast is what has created the explosion in wildlife populations, by breaking up mature woods into paths, fields, grasses, gardens, etc you create ideal habitat. Couple that with a lack of any real hunting and you get deer, turkey, bear, coyote, etc population growth. By most estimates, there are more deer, turkey, moose and bear in the northeast today than there were 200 years ago. 100 years ago there were almost none, due to farming.

I think people have an image of the immediate aftermath of a cut and lose track of what that will be and look like in just a couple years.

 

[kalless]

Great post! (I'm a forester.)

Good forestry practices result in healthy forests not just for a few rotation cycles (generations), but rather in perpetuity.

Well-planned forestry practices protect or improve water quality.

Approximately half of the birds on the federal endangered species list require early-successional habitat that logging operations provide.

-kalless

PS- Anti-forestry crusaders mainly use pictures of huge clearcuts from the western part of the U.S. in their propoganda- a type of silviculture largely inappropriate in the northeast.

 

[Puck]

I like your points about how wildlife is impacted. I think VERY few people understand what poor habitat mature forests are. It might be counter-intuitive, but all the development in the northeast is what has created the explosion in wildlife populations, by breaking up mature woods into paths, fields, grasses, gardens, etc you create ideal habitat. Couple that with a lack of any real hunting and you get deer, turkey, bear, coyote, etc population growth. By most estimates, there are more deer, turkey, moose and bear in the northeast today than there were 200 years ago. 100 years ago there were almost none, due to farming.

I think people have an image of the immediate aftermath of a cut and lose track of what that will be and look like in just a couple years.

I think this thread may get deleted.

Anyway....the crash in the populations you mentioned were caused by habitat destruction (farming only part of that, clear cut logging a huge part of that) and hunting. I don't understand the comment that a climax forest is poor habitat...for whom? 22% of woodland bird species are on a watch list becasue of habitat destruction. This destruction comes in the form of forest fragmentation usually at the hands of urban development. Please see the projects sponsored by Cornel regarding thrushes and cerulean warblers.
One of the problems with logging is the building of new roads into untouched areas. These roads become a conduit for poachers and others who would abuse the area.
I don't have a problem with manged logging that is described in the thread. Most of the areas in the north have been looged off multiple times. However it is alos a good idea to have areas that are left alone.

 

[Gris]

By most estimates, there are more deer, turkey, moose and bear in the northeast today than there were 200 years ago.

This seems too incredible to be true. What is the source of this claim?

 

[RGF1]

I like your points about how wildlife is impacted. I think VERY few people understand what poor habitat mature forests are. It might be counter-intuitive, but all the development in the northeast is what has created the explosion in wildlife populations, by breaking up mature woods into paths, fields, grasses, gardens, etc you create ideal habitat. Couple that with a lack of any real hunting and you get deer, turkey, bear, coyote, etc population growth. By most estimates, there are more deer, turkey, moose and bear in the northeast today than there were 200 years ago. 100 years ago there were almost none, due to farming.

I think people have an image of the immediate aftermath of a cut and lose track of what that will be and look like in just a couple years.

Chip , Kalless, Thank you ! I wish I had discussed that. . Most people do not know an old growth forest is almost sterile. It does not support much wild life at all.. When we started suppressing every wild fire and developing everything in sight. WE created the problem we now have. I BA in Plant Biology and sociology and am thinking about a MA or MS. so I am not just talking out of my butt. Not only does selective and small clear cuts meaning less than 5 acres create ideal habitat it mimics what nature used to and on occasion still does. . Hiking out west I see lots of avalanche paths that have new growth in them if I want to take a photo of a Elk I go there! We do not have as many re occurring slides either avalanches or mud slides here due to the rapid growth and human intervention and of course the nature of the terrain.
Would people complain if severe thunderstorm blew down a few acres of trees? Would they complain if a wildfire got to close to their $1/2 million second home boarding a national forest? Would they get upset if I told them sorry no cordwood sold it all to the locals? You bet!
As For hunting I am not a real big fan of all practices some do offend me (ok I go out with a bolt action rifle) . . But because we hunted the wolf and cougar to near extinction there is a problem with deer over population and a more rapid spread of Lyme disease ( I have it ) . I just feel as if every one jumps on the case of loggers and says horrors you cut down all those nice trees. Where do they think their cordwood comes from where do they think the nice hickory or cherry, oak etc furniture they pay a mint or comes from? Who do they think cuts and creates this? . I certainly am not money grubbing I pay over 1,000 0just for a chainsaw that does not include maintaining it bars, chains pre parts, then there is the chipper, the splitter the miniexcavator the skidsteer. . Oh yeah I am racking n the cash. . I often have to slow down due to how hard work been in and out today cutting up cordwood. .
It is hard to explain that logging helps the forest in fact Native Americans used to burn forests to create wildlife habitat! Most people would not believe me!
Yes the images of the NorthWestern clear-cut, which are devastating, are used to depict loggers and logging. Sorry that is not I, nor would I ever do that. !
Kalless I do not know if I can explain succession in a single post damn it would take forever. But you are right on!
Yes Chip after even a year a cut looks very different yes guys’ birds and other wild life love it. As do hunters, if they are allowed to hunt on it. . In a few years a cut looks very different lots of new sprouts and sapling it can be almost impossible to walk through in parts of the NE or NW. I hope that maybe I have explained a few things. and started people thinking rater than attacking . Also there is a big difference between a big land holding or timber company and me nor do I call my self-a Non Profit. I am up front about what I do.
Once again thanks Guys! Maybe next time one of the anit timbering folks needs me to drop that 150 ft white pine that is shading their pool they will think about why I ask 1k or more to get up in it and safely put it on the groundor they copuld just try it them selves! . No I am not some self-serving maniacal demon making a huge profit of the forest that would be a different bunch.Hell I don't run Hiker hotel in the sky above treeline for $UDS a nighttry spreadfing yer pad nad sleeping bad on Adms to watch thge stars Don't let the MT police catch ya not payin yer $80 . Maybe they would not mind me telling them how to run their cubicles and hotels hell I cn do that let me at em with my MS 880 It ll take car of them hotels in tha sky in good time jus 15 mins or so no more problem and we an have a "Agustefest cfompleat with live band andcsubvsatnces afterwards . Any one else know what I mean mext AugustFest maye4 the Boys inGreen should maje a guset appernce ! a cell phone call away! Yuo get get great cell phone reception on Adams or even from the Quay HEHE might just try it out .

 

[Mike P.]

More than 200 years ago, I'm not sure but around CT there is more Turkey than 30 years ago & likely 100 years ago. Probably the same with deer too as more people hunted & hunting was all deer, not just bucks as was the case in CT when I hunted (1975 - 1986) All that shooting bucks did was to give the remaining bucks more work in rutting season, poor guys ,

It's not impression anymore that the AMC is anti-logging when done in the process mentioned by RGF1. it's when logging companies own large tracts of land (some of them are in the busisness for the long haul so they are probably better stewards than others) & in order to harvest the back 400 arces they have to get equipment in there, a few years later they are harvest the southern 400 Then the northern piece all the while building new roads. The outfits that operate in the manner depicted as what is going on north of Gorham sound like rape & sell though.

A while ago the Sierra Club had looked at pursuing National Park Status for the WMNF. While it would appear that would be good for hikers, I don't feel it would be good for people who live in thea area that make a living in the National Forest. A majority of any jobs created IMO would be service type jobs not really capable of providing a family a living wage. Logging & the mills do a better job of that.

(CT casinos employ many people in SE CT, few of these job provide family wages, many people do get by as both spouses work there on different shifts so someone is home with kids so they don't incur day care cost. most of these people don't live in their own homes, spouses pass each other in the doorways, these jobs most likely pay more than the services jobs that a National Park would pay)

There was a belief that National Park Status would generate more tourist too & that was made to look like a good thing/more $$. Perhaps National Park Tourist are more likely to spend more $$ per visit instead of driving, hiking, grabbing some food & gas & leaving. Then again because I live close, I don't really see myself spending anymore than a long weekend of 4 days in the WMNF unless I'm deep in the WMNF & not generating $$$ for local busineses, although if I was to buy a Time-Share it would likely be in NH. (Then I'd bring some food, buy some but it would almost be like a big tent as I won't take a family of four out to many meals - especially a 5 & 2 year old.

On the other hand, I can't see changing the WMNF to WMNP would entice a family from OH, IA, WV, PA (etc.) to come here Vs. going to a really big hole in the ground out west or a bunch of boiling water flying out of the ground in WY.

 

[RGF1]

I think this thread may get deleted.

Anyway....the crash in the populations you mentioned were caused by habitat destruction (farming only part of that, clear cut logging a huge part of that) and hunting. I don't understand the comment that a climax forest is poor habitat...for whom? 22% of woodland bird species are on a watch list becasue of habitat destruction. This destruction comes in the form of forest fragmentation usually at the hands of urban development. Please see the projects sponsored by Cornel regarding thrushes and cerulean warblers.
One of the problems with logging is the building of new roads into untouched areas. These roads become a conduit for poachers and others who would abuse the area.
I don't have a problem with manged logging that is described in the thread. Most of the areas in the north have been looged off multiple times. However it is alos a good idea to have areas that are left alone.

Puck I am not sure If I can answer you on BBS or even a Long long Email, Forestry and silviculture are actually sciences now. . One thing about the destruction of Habitat, It is mainly due ot housing and strip mall development not sustainable logging. As I have stated why would a logger destroy what he or she needs for a living. . Yes the Claer cuts you see images of in the Northwest are bad yes some of them are destructive. In a few cases Such as th Spotted owl there was a real threat to habitat.
The way logging is practiced to day is different one there are in most states stricter regulations (NH being a exception) . Two there are different types of logging not every logger goes out in a feller buncher and rapes the lands most do not. . What logging currently is doing is mimicking what nature used to do. . But man in his infinite wisdom decided he knew best and stopped the wildfires. To make it easy to understand a old growth forest has little understory as the tall trees block out the sunlight . Hence little forage for wild life. If you look at a forest in a area that has not been heavily logged say in the Rockies you will see land slides from rapid snowmelt and avalanches and small burns from thunderstorms. This allows new growth.
and forage for wildlife. . Old Growth is somewhat of a misnomer as natural events topple swaths of timber allowing new growth to take over. Also different species of trees have varying life spans and needs for sunlight and water so as one type of tree dies off another takes its place. Often a storm will blow over some trees allowing for a sun and water loving fast growing tree to take over in the east Maple and Birch do this along with poplar. Oak might follow then hemlock and white pine. Others are found in different areas also. Beech, Gum, Ash and hickory are more opportunistic and will grow in more places only hickory has a high value as timber so the others do not get cut. Beech is an excellent fuel wood as is ash.. Ash is sometimes used to make baseball bats. as is hickory.
What you are not told is that in the areas of a old growth forest that have been hit by a storm animals and plats that sustain the endangered species appear and provide food and a sometimes shelter for it .
I know I am not doing this justice though
I hope it does not get deleted . I started this in response another post and to explain logging and how it really works in the WMNF . And give every one a different perspective as a logger.


Kalless can I PM you I hae a question If you are in NH or SW ME

 

[Backcountry Exp]

Most people do not know an old growth forest is almost sterile. It does not support much wild life at all..

Sorry, but I have to take issues with some of the circular logic I see going on here. I suppose one might come to the conclusion that global warming must be good for forests too because, after all, trees need C02 ...

I am not anti-logging. And I concur that a properly managed forest will support more wildlife than a 2nd or 3rd generation monoculture forest that is left untouched. BUT ... saying an "old growth" forest is almost sterile seems to me to be a self-serving bend of the facts.

Untouched old growth forests have a biological complexity that can't conceivably be approached by human efforts to replant and rejuvenate cleared stands. The forests that recolonized New England after agriculture waned in importance were far more ecologically rich than the monoculture forests of commercial timber that presently get planted after a stand is harvested.

And as for the part about there being more wildlife in New England than there was 200 years ago, that is only half true and omits a few glaring facts. There is far less biological diversity in New England than there was in colonial times. Sure there are plenty more deer and turkeys today ... but there are also more rats and invasive species. How come nobody counts them when bragging about how healthty the enviroment is ?

Remember too that the boon for grazers and other prey species comes at the expense of predators ... So today there are no more wolves .. no more mountain lions ... and countless other flora and fauna that have been extirpated from the region by habitat destruction.

Here is one of those "sterile" old-growth forests in WA State ...

http://www.backcountry-explorer.org/HOHweb/index.html


peace ...

 

[RGF1]

BCE Wolves and cougars were hunted out of the aresa due to unfounded fear. second the HOH forest is not the WMNF and has not seen the logging or other manegement. Most old growth is indeed much more sterile than the Olymicic National park you are not being fair . By excluding that the area has not really seen much human activitiy . As Iand a very few others hae stated the problem is human mismangenment . The Predotswill return and may well be on thier own in part due to logging that provides a nice habitate for prey such as moose, deer small rodents ect.
TWere do popel think timber comes from? or is it ok ot rpe some one Esles forest but not even cut ours in a substainsble manner.
What you hard core enviormentlist want me to do work at a restraunt and serve you you Sam Adams and filte mignon for minimum wage after going to college and working hard I do not think so . Or maybe we should all live in caves and what would we wear how would we cook ? TYou se it is not so siomple . All I wanted was to have my proffesion not be demonized by a few zealots. . Sorry if you cannot understand. You want rcord wood , ok were do I cut it . you want that huge tree droped how do I do it ? You want lots of paper for magazines, your forms and paper work ,you want to build and or upgrade your house you want this and that forest product but please do not cut down a tree. I feel like I am in a catch 22. I bet most of you have hiked through a areI timbered and nver knew it Ifyou k hiked near or to MT Garfield you did . If oytu hiked the western side of the Kisnsmans you did . But you did not know! Damn good I think if you cannot rtell a area was logged ! Hell I can log and a year later you woukld never even know it If you saw a bear or moose thank some one like me . I helpd it come back . It is is hard to explain on a BBS . It would take a whole college course to do so. Chip , Kalless help me out please. Thease guys really mean well but do not know about forestry or logging and mordern game manegement . Stoip demonizing us loggers We do alot more than just cut spruce trees. Or maybe you can drop tht hazeerdous tree over your house ! Yeah I do that and it is very dangerous yeah i cut .cord owood for your wood stove . ., I do not make a mess as the propaganda suggest i leave some slash for wild live I chip so,me for bio mass fule and pelltes ypou brun who do you think odes that ! I also have lookedat tree and thopugh nbo way to bueatiful and old . I won, t drop that grand old oak . Do you know what selctive timebering is do you knw what p[erscribed burn is ? insted of calling me some evil mad man raping the land for profit hell they do that 5,000ft some whee r in NH ask me what I do take a hke with me aske meabout my love for moutains creeks and forests! Stop demonizing me . So the BMW /Lexus SUV Set does not like to see a guy with a chiansawand Skid steer big deal he will get over it. Oh he might not "donate" besides he pays me 500 a cord yep that the price in the 128 belt . Yes it might come from an area you like to hike in . Gues what it is going to grow back . Think about the people in NH and those who live near and work on the WMNF before you fly off and flame . Hell I mostly cut cord wood and eve make the XC trails you ski on !

 

[Waumbek]

I would have had a forester check on my progress and make sure I was not doing any thing wrong. I also would have to finish with in the time allotted .
You can only cut during certain hours so as to minimize impact on wild life though they seem to know that a cut means more sprouts coming up and

These discussions almost always go downhill fast and then they should be deleted so I'll get in here fast. The rules you talk about are great; the USFS enforcement isn't always commensurate. My neighbors and I have lived next to USFS-forest cuts for many years now. We've seen contracts extended again and again, the rules broken, seasons extended, etc. You can call USFS and complain but you don't get much action. The local USFS leadership has changed here due to retirements so maybe the new breed will be better, but in the old days, the USFS office budget depended on "getting the cut out" first and foremost. Everything else, it seems, was secondary. The complaint system is terrible, by the way. If you don't like the local USFS ruling, you go all the way up the chain only to find your concern is returned to the person who initially ruled against you. Guess what the final decision is? I also have neighbor-friends who are small loggers and can't or won't bid on USFS cuts, which go to the bigger guys, including Canadian concerns, although maybe outsourcing has stopped now too. They're appalled at how lax USFS can be and apply far higher standards themselves. Sorry, RGF1, this is not a rant against loggers but I just can't agree with the totally rosy picture you paint of USFS.

 

[RGF1]

Waumbeck . The biggest reason I have ever felt to get a cut out was due to "Tourist season" . I do not bid on contracts I cannot handle and I only cut hard wood. But as I say most of the presure comes form the USFS and some one else not wanting the BMW/ Lexus set seeing guys timbering . Pressure form elsewhere I have heard. I was really pressured to get the cut out before a place openend recently . the cleintel would not want to see a sawdust covered guy at the gas sation with logs in his truck now would they. I Was trying to defend and explain my proffesion and I think it will turn into a flame war. How sad . Like I say they want thier cord wood yet no developemt in thier back yard . They do not want to see or hear a timber ooperation yet want the end results. I undestand your concerns yet the WMNF has really curtailed timber sales and cut and take contracts. due to over zealous misinformed people some one is resposible or this . . Were it not for timbering most of the wildlife photos we see would never be seen think about that. Yes abuses happen . I think they are wrong and should be ended and theculprits held acoputable be that legally or evenin prison . Also ther is blame to lay but I regress. Kelless help me out here of you can .
Like I say what does the BMW /Lexus SUV set want me to do work at burger world ?

 

[Backcountry Exp]

If you re-read my post RFG1, I don't think you will find me calling you an "evil mad man raping the land for profit" Like I said, I am not anti-logging and I made no personal attack on you or how you make your living.

But you, and some of those in agreement with you, make a lot of off the cuff remarks that are simply untrue. And I will call you (plural) on them.

And yes, you are right. The HOH is not the WMNF ... precisely because of what you said, the fact that it HAS NOT seen too much human activity.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't on the one hand say that human intervention in the forest is beneficial for the forest and then on the other hand cry foul when someone points out that the forest was doing just fine before humans intervened. Yes, timber is a renewable resource that can be managed responsibly. And Yes, responsible forest management practices have helped some species recover in the Northeast and elsewhere. But lets not get carried away congratulating ourselves and say that the forest, and the creatures in it, are better off now then they were before the forests were first felled. ... That's all I'm arguing.

Left to its own devices, nature is still the best healer.

 

[RGF1]

If you re-read my post RFG1, I don't think you will find me calling you an "evil mad man raping the land for profit" Like I said, I am not anti-logging and I made no personal attack on you or how you make your living.

But you, and some of those in agreement with you, make a lot of off the cuff remarks that are simply untrue. And I will call you (plural) on them.

And yes, you are right. The HOH is not the WMNF ... precisely because of what you said, the fact that it HAS NOT seen too much human activity.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't on the one hand say that human intervention in the forest is beneficial for the forest and then on the other hand cry foul when someone points out that the forest was doing just fine before humans intervened. Yes, timber is a renewable resource that can be managed responsibly. And Yes, responsible forest management practices have helped some species recover in the Northeast and elsewhere. But lets not get carried away congratulating ourselves and say that the forest, and the creatures in it, are better off now then they were before the forests were first felled. ... That's all I'm arguing.

Left to its own devices, nature is still the best healer.

.
Fist we can never go back to the way the foest was before man touched it . and that was before Europeans. Native Americans routinely burned forests percicesly to allow for more game !
Part of the problem is man is part of natuire and is involved unless you want us to become extinct or live in cave if that . Then we need to pratice reasonable safe sane resource use. . Yes the forest is better off now than it was even 50 years ago or 100 years ago wildlife is comeing back we are making progress is it perfect No but it sure beats what could be .When you use rubbing alohol thank a logger whgen you read your envrio mag thank a logger, when take dump clean your self thank a logger. when you burn that cord wood and not oil thank a logger when a storm comes up and a tree knocks out power while you watch Desperate house wives and it comes back on thank a logger. I am that guy who at 2 or 3 AM goes out and cuts away at the downed trees. I am that guy thet comes over and drops that tree so you can enjoy your pool .I am the Guy who after a storm gets that huge tree out of your house. Think you can do it on your own ? If most of you did you would be in the ER or dead. it is extreamly dangerous
Yes better more enlightended logging pracices have led to all sorts o wild life coimeing back. aslo As i mwentioned often logging mimics nature and does what man has interfeared with fire supression being one of hem. yes Razing every thing isc wrong but now we have to mimic nature to bring back a healthy forest.
The HOH never saw much of that it does not get many wildfires and it has more rainfall than most foerst in the continnet so your display is not fully honest . It is in a very mild temperate rainforest climate that makes for rapid regrowth and vegitation. of blowdown areas not a fair comparison. .
If you were to walk through a area I recently timbered ,Hint it is in the western WMNF you would not know it and you would see more wild life( bears ) and possibly endanged speices if you are very lucky. I personaly think the cougar is back in the NE along with the Timber Wolf . . Guess what thank a logger. we made it possible by providing them with a habitate that thier prey love . .

 

[Backcountry Exp]

I'm gonna bug outta this one now before it closes ... I made my point ... but must add that ... since I don't have TV, it would be kinda hard for me to watch "desperate housewives." LOL

Try not to assume to much !

be well and hike more !

roberto

 

[Chip]

sorry guys, just got back in, I can quote articles all week or until this is deleted, but it won't change your mind. Try this, think about it logically. How many deer, turkey, bear, coyote sightings were there in your area 40 years ago ? 30, 20, 10 ? You can check with your state DEP for the numbers. Mature forests are great for woodpeckers and squirrel, but bad for most other animals. Most animals require a diverse habitat, mainly feeding and living in "the edge" between. Read this, it's clipped and unedited, only about deer, but it applies to any animal that was rare in the woods previously.

Rapidly growing deer populations are proving to be a big challenge for scientists and local residents alike, says a Tufts expert.

No. Grafton, Mass. [11-15-02] A hundred years ago, the U.S. deer population was a sparse 500,000. Today, experts estimate that 20 million deer roam the nation – in both rural and suburban settings. To help address the havoc wreaked on local ecosystems by the growing deer population, leading experts like Tufts professor Allen Rutberg are looking for innovative ways to deal with the problem.

“In the last decade, from the Rockies to New England and the Deep South, rural and suburban areas have been beset by white-tailed deer gnawing shrubbery and crops, spreading disease and causing hundreds of thousands of auto wrecks,” The New York Times reported this week. “Fast-multiplying herds are altering the ecology of forests, stripping them of native vegetation and eliminating niches for other wildlife.”

Now experts are trying to solve the problem of overpopulation -- which is exacerbated by decreased popularity of hunting, elimination of natural predators, and adept adaptation of the deer to suburban settings.

"Deer turned out to be uniquely suited to our 20th-century habitats," Tufts professor Allen Rutberg told The Wall Street Journal last year.

Rutberg – an expert at the Center for Animals and Public Policy at Tufts Veterinary School – has been studying the problem of deer overpopulation for more than a decade. Before joining the Tufts faculty, he was Senior Scientist for the Humane Society of the United States, where he led the wildlife contraceptive program -- specifically focusing on deer and wild horses.

 

[Chip]

Ct State DEP;

Black bears are impressive animals. Even a long-distance glimpse of one foraging in a woodland is an unforgettable experience for most outdoor enthusiasts. However, getting a glimpse of a bear in Connecticut was once unlikely because bears were extirpated (extinct in area) from the state beginning in the mid-1800s. Since then, bears have made a comeback. Their return is due, in part, to the regrowth of habitat throughout the region following the abandonment of farms during the late 1800s. Beginning in the 1980s, the DEP Wildlife Division had evidence of a resident population. Since then, annual sighting reports have increased dramatically, indicating a rapid increase in the bear population. With the number of bears increasing in the state, it is important for residents to learn the facts about black bears and how to coexist with them.

Connecticut residents are observing more and more with foxes and coyotes in their yards. Reports received by the Connecticut Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) Wildlife Division range from instances of coyotes and foxes occasionally traveling near houses to animals seen on a daily basis and often exhibiting brazen behavior. Fox and coyote complaints from homeowners in residential areas are most common in spring and summer when the animals spend more time searching for food to meet the high energy demands for raising young. Also, foxes and coyotes may be more visible because of the increased daylight of spring and summer. Many residents have noted a nearby den in addition to seeing the adult fox or coyote.

"Several factors may be responsible for the increase in fox and coyote reports in recent years," said Paul Rego, a DEP Wildlife Division biologist. "The coyote population has grown along with the number of houses built in rural and less developed areas. The adaptability of both coyotes and foxes enables them to live near people."

 

[Waumbek]

since I don't have TV, it would be kinda hard for me to watch "desperate housewives." LOL roberto

Amen. I'd never heard of it before Laura Bush, much less watched it. But let's not go there either..... Over & Out on this one.

 

[Chip]

I agree, it's a difficult subject and not what I'm here for.
It's like trying to argue religion or politics.

Edited

But I will add at least one more point...

 

[Puck]

I have always found it interesting how these 'argument' threads progress. A lot of very valid points are raised. Yet the points are not addressed but are argued around. If this conversation happend over a beer and fire (with proper gratitude expressed to the woodsman) we would find that we are all pretty much in agreement on this issue. Some of our points may need to be modified a degree or two.

So when all is said and done I wish I had a BMW. I wish I knw some desperate housewives, I wish I had an old growth forest in my backyard.