- Joined
- Aug 21, 2019
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
Been following this thread with great interest but this has to be my favorite line so far.
Another Falling Waters Loop Fatality
- Thread starter NHClimber
- Start date
Help Support vftt.org:
Been following this thread with great interest but this has to be my favorite line so far.
Mike P.
Well-known member
My Spring experience has been April when it was cold so there was no melting and May trips when the crossings were not an issue. That said, the day I got sunburn in April on Bear CT when there were no leaves and young Mr. Mason (I think that was the Eagle Scout's last name) got stuck for two days in the Great Gulf when he descended from Gulfside on the Sphinx trail and couldn't cross the brook. His delay prompted his mom to call and SAR looked for him. Any water crossing that weekend would have been bad. In summer when rain & T-storms may be an issue, F-Ridge wouldn't be an option I'd look at as the ridge is one of the narrowest ridges and therefore amongst the worst places when T-storms fire up.
I've been between Liberty and Little Haystack in Spring in low and high snow years and it's pretty different. Those trips had been over 10 years ago and before the increase in hiker population. The numbers wouldn't change the snow depth but it would probably be easier to follow.
sierra
Well-known member
I don't disagree that that open slope on Lafeyette could be problematic, it is pretty wide and there are some funky turns. Truth is, there are a number of issues for this hike and I think we both covered some good ones.
Just to clarify, the direction off the Lafayette summit down the Greenleaf Trail is magnetic 300 right through the bedrock slot. As others have noted, it is the big turn to the south about 500 ft down, which is commonly wind blown and icy, that hikers miss in white outs and end up losing their footwear (running shoes) while thrashing in the Lafayette Brook drainage.
Last edited:
I am a strong advocate of clockwise in summer/fall conditions (basically when the hut is open). The first advantage is the hut and its water source means carrying less water up from the notch and the hut makes a good place to take a break and hydrate. Clouds tend to form late morning into the afternoon on the Lafayette summit and since I am a fair-weather hiker, I prefer a view from Lafayette. It is not unusual for me to look back up the ridge from Truman and the summit that was clear not that long ago is now clouded in and on many hikes the clouds tend to "chase" me down the ridge to Haystack. I would rather have the wind at my back rather than facing it and the majority of the wind is from the NW/West. The other big advantage taking FW down is the ability to enjoy the water crossings and falls heading down. I tend to want to get my elevation in early so tend to blow by the falls when going CCW. I can also fill up on water at the hairpin turn onto the dugway where Dry brook is first encountered. If its hot day, the various crossings are nice to cool off and if I get my feet wet I dont really care. In the winter I have always gone CW as it tends to get the sun earlier in AM. The notch can always be quite cold and I find the cold air draining down Dry Brook means a very long time before a warm up. OBP tends to get away from Walker Brook quicker and slabs the side of Walker Brook so the cold drainage is less noticeable. Hard to beat the sun from coming over the ridge when the Bridle Path pops out on the top of the ridge. I have done the ridge several time in winter or winter like conditions and always CW. The biggest PITA is that the sun will align with the upper Falling Waters later in the day making the stretch from Haystack to The Shining Rock cut off "unpleasant". I am a not a grid hiker so usually stay home during the transition from early to later spring where time of day can really change the flow in Dry Brook.
The other option that is probably anathema to many of the "list folks" is I am out for fun, if I head out in the AM with a good forecast and the actual conditions are not so good when I get to the hut, I may just turn around at the hut after I had a chance to take a break in that sheltered spot neat the door. On several occasions I have headed up from the hut to the Lafayette summit and the winds or weather have degraded once the trail breaks out of the trees and either have turned around or just called it a day at the summit. There is a bit of terrain trap just south of the Lafayette summit, if the winds are from the NW, the terrain initially provides some shelter from the wind but once down in the saddle, there is no longer any shelter and by that time many folks make the call to keep going in degrading weather since they are possibly mentally impaired and equate the Truman highpoint as "the end" of the ridge despite it being a third of the exposure. Folks also underestimate the stretch from the top of Mt Lincoln to Haystack, that section of ridge loses the cover from The OBP ridge and the steepness of the ridge to the west can form some major turbulence. There have been several winter incidents where hikers heading up FW understimated conditions on the ridge and got beat up in that section and had a tough time turning around.
I have also been on the ridge once or twice after enough snowfall where the entrance to the trees to FW from Haystack was totally undistinguishable from the rest of the terrain. There was a large cairn built in the last 20 years that can help but in nasty conditions and possibly impaired thinking it's not at all obvious and several have perished in that area. If the AMC ever does spend the 2 million on the loop for anything other than administrative costs I would advocate spending money clearly defining this route, possibly with a row of posts. If folks are offended by manmade posts in the non-winter periods, make them removable. Possibly the same is needed on Lafayette summit cone. Unfortunately I guess the hiking public will get to be surprised as to how AMC will spend the dollars as to date, I have not seen any public available info on that project.
The other option that is probably anathema to many of the "list folks" is I am out for fun, if I head out in the AM with a good forecast and the actual conditions are not so good when I get to the hut, I may just turn around at the hut after I had a chance to take a break in that sheltered spot neat the door. On several occasions I have headed up from the hut to the Lafayette summit and the winds or weather have degraded once the trail breaks out of the trees and either have turned around or just called it a day at the summit. There is a bit of terrain trap just south of the Lafayette summit, if the winds are from the NW, the terrain initially provides some shelter from the wind but once down in the saddle, there is no longer any shelter and by that time many folks make the call to keep going in degrading weather since they are possibly mentally impaired and equate the Truman highpoint as "the end" of the ridge despite it being a third of the exposure. Folks also underestimate the stretch from the top of Mt Lincoln to Haystack, that section of ridge loses the cover from The OBP ridge and the steepness of the ridge to the west can form some major turbulence. There have been several winter incidents where hikers heading up FW understimated conditions on the ridge and got beat up in that section and had a tough time turning around.
I have also been on the ridge once or twice after enough snowfall where the entrance to the trees to FW from Haystack was totally undistinguishable from the rest of the terrain. There was a large cairn built in the last 20 years that can help but in nasty conditions and possibly impaired thinking it's not at all obvious and several have perished in that area. If the AMC ever does spend the 2 million on the loop for anything other than administrative costs
I would advocate spending money clearly defining this route, possibly with a row of posts. If folks are offended by manmade posts in the non-winter periods, make them removable. Possibly the same is needed on Lafayette summit cone. Unfortunately I guess the hiking public will get to be surprised as to how AMC will spend the dollars as to date, I have not seen any public available info on that project.
Last edited:
Why would you follow a magnetic course, or even give a direction in terms of magnetic? Don't have a compass that can be adjusted for declination?
Simpler not to worry about whether declination is set properly, which may or may not explain the erroneous due W comment earlier.
Concerning descending the Greenleaf Trail from the summit of Lafayette, the WMG says: "Descending from the signs at this 3 way junction, Greenleaf Trail follows cairns slightly north of west for 250 yards, then swings right (north) and then left (southwest) around the large ledge mentioned above."
I don't see how 330 degrees equates to "slightly north of west"
DayTrip
Active member
- Joined
- May 13, 2013
- Messages
- 3,498
- Reaction score
- 14
This confused me too. I actually pulled up the summit in CalTopo's satellite layer to look at the track to refresh my memory. There are quite a few zig-zags going almost due North and then backtracking SW in that section until it reaches the corridor through the scrub at about 4500'.
Oops, you are correct, I have “300” (magnetic) on a piece of tape on the back plate of my compass. So, that is indeed slightly north (about 13 degrees) north of due west. I will edit my post. Thanks!
Those zig zags just below are what draw hikers off trail into the brushy trap of the upper reaches of Lafayette Brook.
BTW Google Earth has some very good resolution files of the Lafayette Ridge.
Wrong info is how people die!!!
(Just kidding, a little Friday morning levity)
ChrisB
Well-known member
Back in the day I converted his cords in these tables to UTM.
Happy to provide if requested.
As an FYI: He no longer uses this route. His website describes winter Presi Trav going from Greyknob to Pinkham.
DayTrip
Active member
- Joined
- May 13, 2013
- Messages
- 3,498
- Reaction score
- 14
This stuff can be done quite easily on CalTopo. Just create waypoints on the map and print the list. Can be deg/min/sec, UTM, has elevations and even spot for notes. all totally free. I used to do this regularly when I first started Winter hiking. I'd have an above treeline "cheat sheet" map with the waypoints, compass bearings for my intended route and other handwritten notes in big easy to read letters and numbers. I'd carry that in a sheet protector in one of my jacket pockets for emergency use so I didn't have to do any calculations on a map in bad weather. Eventually I just input the waypoints in my GPS. Never had to use it but it was a good planning exercise. I usually remembered most of what I had done simply by preparing the map.
Nice 21+ minute interview with NHF&G Sgt Alex Lopashanski, No. 21, as we know him, from the Conway area district.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtRLk7FjdVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtRLk7FjdVc
Great link. I look forward to watching this. I know both of these gentlemen and they are both high quality folks!
iAmKrzys
Member
Thank you for posting this. "[...] your phone is for taking pictures and for making emergency calls" (around 16:00 in the video) - I couldn't agree more with this especially in the context of hiking in adverse weather conditions.
JustJoe
Member
Similar threads
