Does anyone have firsthand experience with this setup?* I really like the idea of a stove/pot system that burns alcohol/esbit/wood and weighs less than 10 ounces. *It’s not cheap but it looks like it could last a lifetime if cared for properly and would be cheap to operate, I’m just not sure what kind of real world performance I can reasonably expect.* I love the 3 minuet boil time of my Jetboil and the bullet proof reliability of my Whisperlite but wouldn’t mind waiting another minute or two to boil a couple of cups of water and shed half a pound.
Caldera Ti Tri Stove
- Thread starter GrayBear
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Maineman
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I prefer a cat can stove + simple foil windscreen. On my PCT thruhike I used one in conjunction with a Evernew 0.9 liter titanium pot for a total cook system weight of 4.2 ounces!
No priming needed even in cold temps. I learned how to make mine on Andrew Skurka's website
No priming needed even in cold temps. I learned how to make mine on Andrew Skurka's website
Guthook
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I've been using the ULC version for almost five years now, and I love it. I used the standard Caldera cone for about a year before that, and also loved it. The only time I had any problem with the stove was when I stepped on it. Oops. The crushed stove worked well enough for the rest of the trip, and was very easy and cheap to replace.
I just checked Trail Designs' website and see that the ULC has been replaced by the Fusion. Seems like the same thing.
My original Caldera cone, using it with a MSR Titan kettle, worked with denatured alcohol down to 25 degrees, although alcohol efficiency decreased quite a bit once it got down below 40 degrees. I've never timed the boil time of either of my systems, because I don't find those to be useful-- too many variables, like initial water temperature, air temperature, wind, amount of water, etc. I usually cook 2 cups of water at a time and have boiling water quickly enough that I don't get impatient.
I just checked Trail Designs' website and see that the ULC has been replaced by the Fusion. Seems like the same thing.
My original Caldera cone, using it with a MSR Titan kettle, worked with denatured alcohol down to 25 degrees, although alcohol efficiency decreased quite a bit once it got down below 40 degrees. I've never timed the boil time of either of my systems, because I don't find those to be useful-- too many variables, like initial water temperature, air temperature, wind, amount of water, etc. I usually cook 2 cups of water at a time and have boiling water quickly enough that I don't get impatient.
Thanks for all the feedback.* I’ve fooled around with the cat food can stove a bit, tried some modifications.* Its defiantly cheap and light but for me it just wasn’t stable enough and was obviously limited to alcohol.
“My original Caldera cone, using it with a MSR Titan kettle, worked with denatured alcohol down to 25 degrees, although alcohol efficiency decreased quite a bit once it got down below 40 degrees.*“
I was wondering how this setup would be when things cool off and the wind picks up.* Did you use a floor plate with your setup?* I’m thinking going to wood when things get cold could be the solution.* The inferno setup looks like it could be pretty sweet.* I don’t know that I would leave my Whisperlite behind on a winter trip though.
“My original Caldera cone, using it with a MSR Titan kettle, worked with denatured alcohol down to 25 degrees, although alcohol efficiency decreased quite a bit once it got down below 40 degrees.*“
I was wondering how this setup would be when things cool off and the wind picks up.* Did you use a floor plate with your setup?* I’m thinking going to wood when things get cold could be the solution.* The inferno setup looks like it could be pretty sweet.* I don’t know that I would leave my Whisperlite behind on a winter trip though.
Guthook
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I didn't use a baseplate since they didn't make them at that point. I've only used my cones with alcohol, never with wood or esbit. I've heard good things about the Inferno setup, though.
For full-on winter, I would never go with anything but my Whisperlite. That's the only time of year when I really don't take any chances. Alcohol may work fine down to 20 degrees or even less, but you have to manage it very carefully. But once it gets down to that temperature or lower, you don't want to fuss around with your stove-- you just want it to burn hot and long.
A few years back I was on a two-night trip that got down to -20, and all of the jetboils failed, and the lightweight wood burning stove couldn't get started. I ended up boiling water for six people on my whisperlite, and it worked without problems.
That said, alcohol is all I ever use for three-season backpacking, since it's so easy to use, light, and easy to resupply. Plus, you can carry it in plastic bottles, instead of heavy metal bottles.
GreyBear,
I've not found a combined solution for wood/alcohol and not entirely sure I much care at this point.
I have an EmberLit Ti wood stove. It weighs less than 6oz.
I also have a BatchStovez BS 1.0, which less than 2 oz. and is an alcohol blast furnace (compared to the Trangia).
Both seem to be pretty well optimized for what they do. In particular, I would have to spend a good amount of time with a smaller wood stove to be convinced that smaller is better. The Emberlit is very easy to manage and functionally, the height of the stove is near the limit of what i can break by hand. I find that it gets hard to bust sticks by hand into very short lengths, as I loose leverage.
At this point, I am confident enough with the Emberlit (below the thick spruce line) that I don't feel compelled to carry a white gas stove in the (dry) winter. A few Esbit's provide sure fire lighting in wet conditions, but typically it lights up very fast with birch bark or a bit of painter's tack cloth.
I can see the appeal of a multi-fuel rig for long distance hikers or if you want a single stove for all seasons. As it is, I do weekend trips and it seems that I will choose one or the other of my 4 stoves for the trip.
SVEA 123 - High trips in the winter or (wet) spring ski trips
Emberlit - Lower ski trips in the winter
BatchStovez BS 1.0 - Ultra light 3 season trips
Trangia/Mojo Stand - 3 seasons trips with larger groups
I also toss in the Emberlit on casual 3 season hikes as a backup to the group stove if I think there is a chance of wanting a fire for entertainment/comfort. Here again, the larger size of the Emberlit is nice.
Still, I do get the desire to bring them all together. The other stove on my radar screen is the Four Dogs Bushcooker.
I've not found a combined solution for wood/alcohol and not entirely sure I much care at this point.
I have an EmberLit Ti wood stove. It weighs less than 6oz.
I also have a BatchStovez BS 1.0, which less than 2 oz. and is an alcohol blast furnace (compared to the Trangia).
Both seem to be pretty well optimized for what they do. In particular, I would have to spend a good amount of time with a smaller wood stove to be convinced that smaller is better. The Emberlit is very easy to manage and functionally, the height of the stove is near the limit of what i can break by hand. I find that it gets hard to bust sticks by hand into very short lengths, as I loose leverage.
At this point, I am confident enough with the Emberlit (below the thick spruce line) that I don't feel compelled to carry a white gas stove in the (dry) winter. A few Esbit's provide sure fire lighting in wet conditions, but typically it lights up very fast with birch bark or a bit of painter's tack cloth.
I can see the appeal of a multi-fuel rig for long distance hikers or if you want a single stove for all seasons. As it is, I do weekend trips and it seems that I will choose one or the other of my 4 stoves for the trip.
SVEA 123 - High trips in the winter or (wet) spring ski trips
Emberlit - Lower ski trips in the winter
BatchStovez BS 1.0 - Ultra light 3 season trips
Trangia/Mojo Stand - 3 seasons trips with larger groups
I also toss in the Emberlit on casual 3 season hikes as a backup to the group stove if I think there is a chance of wanting a fire for entertainment/comfort. Here again, the larger size of the Emberlit is nice.
Still, I do get the desire to bring them all together. The other stove on my radar screen is the Four Dogs Bushcooker.
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Tom_Murphy
Member
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/woodgaz-folding-backpacking-stove.php
woodgzs stove with the companion alky burner
Your primer on how to light off the SVEA 123R was a great help when I was starting out. TY!
I wonder how much a floor plate will help an alcohol stove.* I was thinking when is cold something like a pot cozy lid under the titanium floor plate might help by keeping the fuel a bit warmer. The floor plate would most likely make things a bit more efficient with wood as well if you are on top of snow or wet ground
I agree with Guthook, I want bullet proof reliability in the winter.* The extra weight of the Whisperlite is worth the peace of mind, one less thing to think about.* I’ve heard a lot of folks who love there SVEA 123 for the same reason, I’ve never used one myself.
At this point I’m weighing my options for a light weight 3 season stove that will primarily be a water boiler but having the option to experiment with my backwoods culinary skills would be a plus.* Having a stable platform is a factor in this equation as well.*
I’ve had limited experience with alcohol stoves (cat food can) and to be honest I wasn’t all that impressed. It worked great at home in the kitchen but on the trail it seemed to be very sensitive to wind and not very stable.* The Ti Tri looks like a pretty sweet package but it’s not cheap, by the time you add a Ti pot and the inferno it’s in the $200 range. That’s a lot of money for a stove, but if it works well, it’s cheap to run and weighs 10 oz. it may be worth it to me.
I agree with Guthook, I want bullet proof reliability in the winter.* The extra weight of the Whisperlite is worth the peace of mind, one less thing to think about.* I’ve heard a lot of folks who love there SVEA 123 for the same reason, I’ve never used one myself.
At this point I’m weighing my options for a light weight 3 season stove that will primarily be a water boiler but having the option to experiment with my backwoods culinary skills would be a plus.* Having a stable platform is a factor in this equation as well.*
I’ve had limited experience with alcohol stoves (cat food can) and to be honest I wasn’t all that impressed. It worked great at home in the kitchen but on the trail it seemed to be very sensitive to wind and not very stable.* The Ti Tri looks like a pretty sweet package but it’s not cheap, by the time you add a Ti pot and the inferno it’s in the $200 range. That’s a lot of money for a stove, but if it works well, it’s cheap to run and weighs 10 oz. it may be worth it to me.
GreyBear,
My primary cooking pot is an inexpensive Open Country 2qt pot. It's not terribly heavy (8oz) and big enough for 3, and 4 if you're careful with the cooking. We usually do in the pot cooking, things like cous-cous and Knorr side-dish type meals. Typical supper is boil water for the group's tea/hot chocolate, boil again for the pot meal and later on, heat up water in the dirty pot for dish cleaning.
I've cut a very thin section of plywood in a circle that nests in the bottom of the pot. I use it as a stove base when using my Svea in the winter. Add stability in the snow, but more importantly, insulates the tank from the snow, which is critical for running a Svea on snow. I also carry it in the shoulder seasons when carrying an alcohol stove for the same reason. The Svea and most alcohol stoves demand that the tank heat up to vaporize the fuel and a cold ground kills performance.
As you know, there are only 4 basic choices for fuel: wood, white gas, alcohol and canisters.
I've never warmed up to canisters. I don't like the fuel management issues. But, they are super adjustable, super easy to use and some are very, very light. If you aspire to cook well and simmer stuff, then maybe all you need is a more traditional pot to work with your JetBoil?
I trust my life easily to the Svea in winter, but I've come to really like the experience of using alcohol on weekend trips. It's very quiet (an F4 is quiet compared to the Svea) and the fuel is not unpleasant to handle.
I've used two different alcohol stoves and like them each for different uses.
The BatchStoves BS 1.0 is made for boiling water. Consider it a direct alcohol replacement to a JetBoil. It works best with tall narrow pots, imo and is not designed to be turned off during the burn. The heat output is amazing and it's insanely light. I've not used a cat stove, but I suspect this design (similar to the WhiteBox) will burn hotter and faster than the cat stoves. IMO, this makes sense for UL solo or duo hiking. Stability with larger pots can be had by making a hardwire mesh pot support, but that's pushing the system into fiddly land.
I have a lot more experience with the Trangia stove. By far, it's my favorite for car camping and hiking with a group of 3 to 4. I use the Mojo pot stand for use with my 2 qt Open Country pot and even larger (massive really) 4 qt Open Country pot (car camping). The Mojo pot stand is killer stable. The Trangia can be turned off easily by putting the simmer ring/snuffer on the stove. I've glued a small magnet to the end of a bit of coat hanger and use this to put the snuff ring in place with less dramatics. The long burn time of the big tank, the ease of starting/stopping the stove (as opposed to needing to let it burn out) and the super stable platform of pot stand make it a great camping set up. I also use this with an old MSR style windscreen, which I size with paper clips to adjust to either of the pot sizes I use. This is more flexible to the integrated systems like that from Trangia. The Trangia can also kind of-sort of-almost simmer with the simmer ring place. It's not a real simmer like you will get with a canister stove, but there you have it.
I should mention that I think alcohol stoves have some built-in peril. It's very hard to see the flame and you have to get used to feeling for the flame with your hand. There's no noise to alert bystanders that the stove is running. And, when using a good windscreen, it's possible to have the fuel boil over, which causes a flaming mess.
If somebody wanted a recommendation from me on a first alcohol stove, I would recommend the Trangia/Mojo/foil windscreen option. If you have a pot that works with it and can deal with using a single pot all the time, the Clickstand system also looks good. For cold weather, I recommend a plywood insulator. Actually, the new Esbit knock-off of the Trangia is interesting due to the built in handle on the snuffer. Quite handy.
If somebody wanted a recommendation for an alcohol replacement for the JetBoil, I would recommend the BatchStovez BS 1.0 with windscreen combined with super light pot with a folding handle like those from Toaks.
Lastly, I can't recommend enough practicing with these in the backyard. Make tea for dinner every night for a few weeks. IMO, it's the only way to learn the ins and outs of any stove.
My primary cooking pot is an inexpensive Open Country 2qt pot. It's not terribly heavy (8oz) and big enough for 3, and 4 if you're careful with the cooking. We usually do in the pot cooking, things like cous-cous and Knorr side-dish type meals. Typical supper is boil water for the group's tea/hot chocolate, boil again for the pot meal and later on, heat up water in the dirty pot for dish cleaning.
I've cut a very thin section of plywood in a circle that nests in the bottom of the pot. I use it as a stove base when using my Svea in the winter. Add stability in the snow, but more importantly, insulates the tank from the snow, which is critical for running a Svea on snow. I also carry it in the shoulder seasons when carrying an alcohol stove for the same reason. The Svea and most alcohol stoves demand that the tank heat up to vaporize the fuel and a cold ground kills performance.
As you know, there are only 4 basic choices for fuel: wood, white gas, alcohol and canisters.
I've never warmed up to canisters. I don't like the fuel management issues. But, they are super adjustable, super easy to use and some are very, very light. If you aspire to cook well and simmer stuff, then maybe all you need is a more traditional pot to work with your JetBoil?
I trust my life easily to the Svea in winter, but I've come to really like the experience of using alcohol on weekend trips. It's very quiet (an F4 is quiet compared to the Svea) and the fuel is not unpleasant to handle.
I've used two different alcohol stoves and like them each for different uses.
The BatchStoves BS 1.0 is made for boiling water. Consider it a direct alcohol replacement to a JetBoil. It works best with tall narrow pots, imo and is not designed to be turned off during the burn. The heat output is amazing and it's insanely light. I've not used a cat stove, but I suspect this design (similar to the WhiteBox) will burn hotter and faster than the cat stoves. IMO, this makes sense for UL solo or duo hiking. Stability with larger pots can be had by making a hardwire mesh pot support, but that's pushing the system into fiddly land.
I have a lot more experience with the Trangia stove. By far, it's my favorite for car camping and hiking with a group of 3 to 4. I use the Mojo pot stand for use with my 2 qt Open Country pot and even larger (massive really) 4 qt Open Country pot (car camping). The Mojo pot stand is killer stable. The Trangia can be turned off easily by putting the simmer ring/snuffer on the stove. I've glued a small magnet to the end of a bit of coat hanger and use this to put the snuff ring in place with less dramatics. The long burn time of the big tank, the ease of starting/stopping the stove (as opposed to needing to let it burn out) and the super stable platform of pot stand make it a great camping set up. I also use this with an old MSR style windscreen, which I size with paper clips to adjust to either of the pot sizes I use. This is more flexible to the integrated systems like that from Trangia. The Trangia can also kind of-sort of-almost simmer with the simmer ring place. It's not a real simmer like you will get with a canister stove, but there you have it.
I should mention that I think alcohol stoves have some built-in peril. It's very hard to see the flame and you have to get used to feeling for the flame with your hand. There's no noise to alert bystanders that the stove is running. And, when using a good windscreen, it's possible to have the fuel boil over, which causes a flaming mess.
If somebody wanted a recommendation from me on a first alcohol stove, I would recommend the Trangia/Mojo/foil windscreen option. If you have a pot that works with it and can deal with using a single pot all the time, the Clickstand system also looks good. For cold weather, I recommend a plywood insulator. Actually, the new Esbit knock-off of the Trangia is interesting due to the built in handle on the snuffer. Quite handy.
If somebody wanted a recommendation for an alcohol replacement for the JetBoil, I would recommend the BatchStovez BS 1.0 with windscreen combined with super light pot with a folding handle like those from Toaks.
Lastly, I can't recommend enough practicing with these in the backyard. Make tea for dinner every night for a few weeks. IMO, it's the only way to learn the ins and outs of any stove.
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Lots of great info. I appreciate that it's first hand knowledge and not regurgitated reviews. I'm not cutting tags off gear and cutting down toothbrush hand yet but I am getting much more focused on weight as my desire to go further and further goes. Alcohol/wood seems like the ticket. I'd like to find a used setup but don't see many at all which is telling in its self.
GrayBear,
Working from home today and thought I would do 2 boils during lunch: one on the Emberlit and one on the BatchStoves BS 1.0 and report again on the logistics and, perhaps more importantly, the emotional aspects of using them. They're very different.
The BatchStovez is just super easy. A stove, a pot and a windscreen. The fuel is easy to find. It's in the fuel bottle. The lighting ritual is dead simple. There's no hint of anxiety. It's fill up stove, light it and wait. In a minute, when it blooms, add the stove. The only anxiety that could possibly arise is, did I fill it enough to boil this amount of water. Rolling into camp, tired and hungry, I have utter confidence that the stove will be running soon. The only concern is did I bring enough fuel to last the meals we have scheduled.
The burn cycle is entirely hand's off and simple. It requires no monitoring. I can then totter off to read some email (at home) or whatever. It's entirely hands off. It burns clean and is non-obtrusive. It's entirely quiet. Provided I avoid knocking it over, it's the sort of stove that I would use in a shelter while I'm in by bag and others are still sleeping. The stove is not fun. It's just totally efficient. It burns. It goes out. That's it.
The Emberlit is a easy platform in which to light and manage a cooking fire. At the end of the day, it's all about fire lighting which is a harder skill than stove operation. It's fussy. I can't reach for a fuel bottle. I have to go around the property looking for wood. I have blown down branches in my yard, so I can use those. If everybody took an Emberlit to, say, Imp Shelter, would I be able to find enough twigs? It's been raining lately too. Will I find dry enough fuel? There's an element of risk and uncertainty with the Emberlit. Will I find suitable fuel tonight? Can I get it going? I'm pretty confident with it, but still, there's some risk.
Using it is very involved. It needs constant monitoring and feeding. It's smoky. My clothes smell like a camp fire. But, it's mesmerizing too. It's fun, but will it be fun when it's 35F and it's been raining steadily all day? Do I want to carry dry wood in my pack as a back up?
The point of these reflections is that, for me, which stove goes really depends on the trip I'm taking. I'm hoping to go high, light and fast with a friend in early June to the Carter-Moriahs. Probably will stay at Imp. I'll take the BatchStove. Winter ski touring, I'll take the Emberlit. Facing a long night of boredom, dry conditions and planning on camping in less impacted areas... sitting and tending the Emberlit makes sense to me.
If I really wanted to have both alcohol and wood in one stove, I would give the Four Dog Bushcooker a close look. Very tempting and dying to try one.
Working from home today and thought I would do 2 boils during lunch: one on the Emberlit and one on the BatchStoves BS 1.0 and report again on the logistics and, perhaps more importantly, the emotional aspects of using them. They're very different.
The BatchStovez is just super easy. A stove, a pot and a windscreen. The fuel is easy to find. It's in the fuel bottle. The lighting ritual is dead simple. There's no hint of anxiety. It's fill up stove, light it and wait. In a minute, when it blooms, add the stove. The only anxiety that could possibly arise is, did I fill it enough to boil this amount of water. Rolling into camp, tired and hungry, I have utter confidence that the stove will be running soon. The only concern is did I bring enough fuel to last the meals we have scheduled.
The burn cycle is entirely hand's off and simple. It requires no monitoring. I can then totter off to read some email (at home) or whatever. It's entirely hands off. It burns clean and is non-obtrusive. It's entirely quiet. Provided I avoid knocking it over, it's the sort of stove that I would use in a shelter while I'm in by bag and others are still sleeping. The stove is not fun. It's just totally efficient. It burns. It goes out. That's it.
The Emberlit is a easy platform in which to light and manage a cooking fire. At the end of the day, it's all about fire lighting which is a harder skill than stove operation. It's fussy. I can't reach for a fuel bottle. I have to go around the property looking for wood. I have blown down branches in my yard, so I can use those. If everybody took an Emberlit to, say, Imp Shelter, would I be able to find enough twigs? It's been raining lately too. Will I find dry enough fuel? There's an element of risk and uncertainty with the Emberlit. Will I find suitable fuel tonight? Can I get it going? I'm pretty confident with it, but still, there's some risk.
Using it is very involved. It needs constant monitoring and feeding. It's smoky. My clothes smell like a camp fire. But, it's mesmerizing too. It's fun, but will it be fun when it's 35F and it's been raining steadily all day? Do I want to carry dry wood in my pack as a back up?
The point of these reflections is that, for me, which stove goes really depends on the trip I'm taking. I'm hoping to go high, light and fast with a friend in early June to the Carter-Moriahs. Probably will stay at Imp. I'll take the BatchStove. Winter ski touring, I'll take the Emberlit. Facing a long night of boredom, dry conditions and planning on camping in less impacted areas... sitting and tending the Emberlit makes sense to me.
If I really wanted to have both alcohol and wood in one stove, I would give the Four Dog Bushcooker a close look. Very tempting and dying to try one.
