Camping in frigid weather?

[hikingfish]

Last week in Quebec, we had fridgid temps that went to -32C (in Quebec City, but my step-father told me it went to down -47C at La Tuque).

As any outdoorsman would do, I decided to whip out the tent and sleeping bag and do a bit of camping in the backyard. I was ok for a little while (until the temps reached -28C at 5:00am, at which point I started feeling the cold seep in through my 2 thermaridge matresses), however...after a couple hours of good sleep, I just couldn't fall back to sleep: I just kept thinking I'm going to lose a bit of my nose to frostbite.

I usually only leave a small hole in my sleeping bag for my nose to be able to breathe / expel air through. I was wondering, do you guys have tricks to keep your nose semi-warm?

It may have been worst than it really was though. I was afraid of too much condensation forming in the tent, so I left a small opening in the door to let moisture escape. As soon as I realised this, I closed it up and the temp seemed to go up a tiny bit and the wind (which was going directly on my nose) stopped.

Fish

 

[adktyler]

This is a pretty common problem, from what I hear. I've heard the same question from friends many times.

I've never gotten a cold nose, so I don't have any personal experience with things that work. But from hearing advice from other people, a balaclava might work for you. It will get a little moist, but it's better than having a frozen nose. One that has a flap over the nose, while still having a vent hole, might work best for you. Something like this: http://www.mountainmagic.com/sportswear/tech-wear/outer/head/head-image/or-balaclava.jpg

Some people I know also pull the hood of their jacket, or the drawstring of their sleeping bag, over their face so that only their mouth is showing (and their nose is then hidden). This allows for moisture to escape, while still allowing you to breath...yet the nose is still covered and warm.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[Hobbitling]

how about a red foam clown nose.

I'm only half joking.

 

[hikingfish]

This is a pretty common problem, from what I hear. I've heard the same question from friends many times.

I've never gotten a cold nose, so I don't have any personal experience with things that work. But from hearing advice from other people, a balaclava might work for you. It will get a little moist, but it's better than having a frozen nose. One that has a flap over the nose, while still having a vent hole, might work best for you. Something like this: http://www.mountainmagic.com/sportswear/tech-wear/outer/head/head-image/or-balaclava.jpg

As luck would have it, I have that OR balaclava model. However, I don't like sleeping with it since when you breathe out, a lot of the expelled air doesn't go through the mesh covering the month area and instead goes into your sleeping bag.

Some people I know also pull the hood of their jacket, or the drawstring of their sleeping bag, over their face so that only their mouth is showing (and their nose is then hidden). This allows for moisture to escape, while still allowing you to breath...yet the nose is still covered and warm.

I tried that too, however I found that my filling became extremely cold while breathing the cold air lol.

Any other tips?

Fish

 

[adktyler]

As luck would have it, I have that OR balaclava model. However, I don't like sleeping with it since when you breathe out, a lot of the expelled air doesn't go through the mesh covering the month area and instead goes into your sleeping bag.



I tried that too, however I found that my filling became extremely cold while breathing the cold air lol.

Any other tips?

Fish

Hmmm, interesting. Sounds like a problem for sure! Maybe if you tried a scarf instead of a balaclava? You could then customize how you wanted it wrapped, thus directing the moisture out of the bag. See here for some all around tips as well, maybe one of them could be a related reason for a cold nose: http://www.chiff.com/a/camping-sleep-warm.htm

I've read reports by some people who swear by face shields that "convert" cold air to warm air, and wick away the moisture. Maybe somebody could share their experiences with them?

http://www.herringtoncatalog.com/ss201.html
http://www.bikebandit.com/product/11022?WT.mc_id=666111

 

[cushetunk]

I think you might be looking for perfect solutions to something -- i.e. tent camping in bitter cold using only your body heat to manage temperature and moisture -- that is ridiculously imperfect.

In fact, I'm trying to think of examples where people routinely live in cold temperatures night after night in tents without any other source of heat and I'm drawing a blank. At first I thought maybe high-altitude mountaineers do, but they frequently cook in their tents, I think. Maybe one will chime in to confirm or deny this. In any case, many high-altitude mountaineers are also crazy, and I personally don't see much point in emulating them during our coldest spells unless one is intending to join their ranks.

In the far north, you have folks like Garrett and Alexandra Conover who do things completely different from what most backpackers envision. They sure aren't relying just on calorie consumption and metabolism to stay warm. Of course, those methods don't always apply well in the crowded New England mountains.

Anyway, the traditional answer to a cold nose might be a big fur ruff around a hood or sleeping bag opening. I bet that cuts wind, traps air, and breathes well. I suspect the Inuit have these on their parkas for good reason

 

[BobC]

This may sound dumb, but the last time I used my 20-degree synthetic sleeping bag (at Baxter State Park in the fall), I didn't want to have my face exposed at all....so I pulled the drawstring as tight as I could and then put the hole in the bag's head area under my head (so in a sense, I was using the bag "upside down"). I then used a sweatshirt as a pillow, so no cold air got into the hole. I didn't feel at all like I was short on air all night and I wasn't cold. Not sure how this will work in my 0-degree down bag but I'll be finding out soon as I intend to try it out for the first time this weekend.

 

[DougPaul]

This may sound dumb, but the last time I used my 20-degree synthetic sleeping bag (at Baxter State Park in the fall), I didn't want to have my face exposed at all....so I pulled the drawstring as tight as I could and then put the hole in the bag's head area under my head (so in a sense, I was using the bag "upside down"). I then used a sweatshirt as a pillow, so no cold air got into the hole. I didn't feel at all like I was short on air all night and I wasn't cold. Not sure how this will work in my 0-degree down bag but I'll be finding out soon as I intend to try it out for the first time this weekend.

Sounds like you are breathing inside your bag. Not a good idea--exhaled moisture collects in the insulation.

Also some bags have differential loft: ie more insulation on the top than the bottom. Using the bag upside down will be colder than right-side up.

I always sleep with at least a balaclava. You could also try a facemask--some of the fleece ones might be comfortable enough.


Also, one should ventilate the tent as much as possible--it reduces the amount of frost that forms on the walls and comes down on you.

Doug

 

[peakbagger]

Long ago I read a discussion about the sleeping bag breathing issue and the "solution" was to wear a respirator mask and run the tube out to an air to air heat exchanger built with the fabric that transfers heat as well as moisture from the outgoing to incoming air stream. Didnt ever see anthing come out of it but the concept was intruiging

 

[adktyler]

Also, one should ventilate the tent as much as possible--it reduces the amount of frost that forms on the walls and comes down on you.

Doug

Agree. 4 season tents have better ventilation systems than three season tents do. They're also usually located so as to minimize the amount of cold air pouring in.

 

[DougPaul]

Long ago I read a discussion about the sleeping bag breathing issue and the "solution" was to wear a respirator mask and run the tube out to an air to air heat exchanger built with the fabric that transfers heat as well as moisture from the outgoing to incoming air stream. Didnt ever see anthing come out of it but the concept was intruiging

That would be a counter-current heat exchanger. Somehow, I'd bet that such a device would be prone to freezing up. Probably would need a drain, too (which would, of course, also freeze up.)

High altitude oxygen masks are made of flexible rubber so you can squeeze them to break up the ice that forms within. They are also fed dry oxygen.

Doug

 

[The Lisa]

This may sound dumb, but the last time I used my 20-degree synthetic sleeping bag (at Baxter State Park in the fall), I didn't want to have my face exposed at all....so I pulled the drawstring as tight as I could and then put the hole in the bag's head area under my head (so in a sense, I was using the bag "upside down"). I then used a sweatshirt as a pillow, so no cold air got into the hole. I didn't feel at all like I was short on air all night and I wasn't cold. Not sure how this will work in my 0-degree down bag but I'll be finding out soon as I intend to try it out for the first time this weekend.

I do something similar because I do not like the cold air on my face either. I pull the drawstring tight to leave a breathing hole, then bury myself in the bag. I leave the breathing hole facing up and just rotate myself away from it so it ends up over my ear or the top of my head (depending on how much other crap I have in my bag with me to stop it from freezing ) I do not notice the bag being any more moist from breathing inside it.
Tentmates have found the sight of a completely closed up bag unsettling.

 

[DougPaul]

I do something similar because I do not like the cold air on my face either. I pull the drawstring tight to leave a breathing hole, then bury myself in the bag. I leave the breathing hole facing up and just rotate myself away from it so it ends up over my ear or the top of my head (depending on how much other crap I have in my bag with me to stop it from freezing ) I do not notice the bag being any more moist from breathing inside it.

One can often get away with techniques like this for single overnights (ie typical weekenders), but if you do this for multiple nights your bag will get wetter and colder each night. Wet/frozen down is a poor insulator. Keeping your bag dry can be the difference between survival or not on a longer trip.

Down is a massive sponge and you probably just can't feel how much moisture is there.

On a longer trip, one should air and sun one's sleeping bag whenever possible to remove as much moisture as possible. (Moisture from your skin also freezes in the fill unless you use a VBL).

Polyester fill is less affected by moisture/frost, but is heavier, doesn't stuff as well, and doesn't last as long.

Doug

 

[The Lisa]

Good points about duration and drying out, Doug. I have done this for one-two nighters in the damp ole northeast. I have only done longer 2- and 3-week trips in areas where it is dryer to begin with and where there is always a chance to dry the bag out.

What is this 'down' you speak of? All my bags are synthetic because of my paranoia about damp. I have never minded the extra volume or weight.

 

[spider solo]

For really cold sleeping or hiking I bring a head band that covers the ears.
...Usually I turn it around and put the narrow part over my nose.
I remember learning that here in the hiking forums a few years ago.

Down sleeping bags...lots of pro & cons about both kinds of bags.

With all the new fabrics and materials available, I up graded my bags to "waterproof down 'bags" of various temperture ratings. Though I don't think I'll try swimming in them, they stay dry though the tent be wet. There fore elminating the need to carry a separate dry sack for it

One way to look at Down ... it is what the synthetics are trying to emulate, Mostly they compete to be the one that most acts like down, and there are many that come close.

Since Down looses it insulation when wet, much like a hatchling would freeze if it became water logged, it is the outer shell that keeps the Down dry
....Many fabrics come through already treated for moisture repelency So many are not the magnet for water as the old ones used to be.

 

[DougPaul]

Since Down looses it insulation when wet, much like a hatchling would freeze if it became water logged, it is the outer shell that keeps the Down dry
....Many fabrics come through already treated for moisture repelency So many are not the magnet for water as the old ones used to be.

The outer shell cannot be fully waterproof (unless the inner shell is fully waterproof, ie a built-in VBL) because moisture from your skin will collect in the down.

Warmlite makes down sleeping bags that are fully waterproof, inside and outside. Don't know of any others.


Sleeping in a balaclava also helps to keep hair grease and skin oils (which also reduce loft) out of the bag.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

What is this 'down' you speak of? All my bags are synthetic because of my paranoia about damp. I have never minded the extra volume or weight.

As spider solo said, it is what polyester fill is trying to emulate...

Wet polyester bags are also colder than dry ones.

Doug

 

[spider solo]

Warmlite makes down sleeping bags that are fully waterproof, inside and outside. Don't know of any others.
Doug

Mine are from Mountain Hardwear, a lot is being made of companies "welding" their fabrics together as opposed to stitching their fabrics, claiming the welding is less invasive than stitching hence the bag is more hydrophobic than if it were stitched .......

....course that could boor most people to tears..... but the companies like to talk that way...

 

[Chip]

Nose Muff ! When I was young and winter camping a great aunt caught wind of it and knitted me one of these.
I used it more than I thought I would.

 

[sardog1]

The Finbar Hood. If Ann Bancroft, Paul Schurke, and the BackpackGearTest testers knew of something better, they'd have told you about it.

Second best: Layers of balaclavas, starting with very thin next to the skin and adding as necessary.

And leave an opening for venting condensation from the tent, fer gawd's sake! You aren't going to be warm for very long when the frost melts and soaks your clothes, sleeping bag, and spirits.