alistair
Member
I'm interested in climbing Cliff and Redfield this winter. Does anyone have any words of advise? Can these two peaks be climbed together as a verylong day hike?
Cliff/ Redfield in the Winter
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Neil
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You should get some good beta here:
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=1484
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=1484
Guinness
Active member
I have done it as a day hike from the Loj, which makes for a long day. I also have done it as a day hike and ended up sleeping against a lean-to in February without a sleeping bag because it got to late. I will be doing it again mid January with a plan on staying in the Feldspar Lean-to. I find it more enjoyable adding one night stay where you hike in and climb the two, then enjoy a night in the back country before hiking out.
alistair
Member
I have climbed 41 of the 46, with 5 peaks still to climb including Cliff/ Red / Marshall. I've done a few winter peaks but never an overnight. If your interested in some company I would like to join you.
Rick
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An issue that might face you is that the more popular winter route for Cliff is the NW side out of Flowed Lands. With that said, you might find the 3 season herd path not broken out as frequently (the one that leaves from the the old Twin Brook Trail near Uphill Lean-To). That would make for a disasterously long day.
I think you might be better off camping at Uphill -Perhaps get in there early and drop packs and go try for Cliff and come back and set up camp. Then the next day get Redfield and spend a 2nd night at camp and hike out on day 3.
I think you might be better off camping at Uphill -Perhaps get in there early and drop packs and go try for Cliff and come back and set up camp. Then the next day get Redfield and spend a 2nd night at camp and hike out on day 3.
Pack in early from Upper Works to Uphill leanto. Do Cliff. Spend the night. Do Redfield early the next morning. Hike out late afternoon/evening with flashlights.
I won't go into the details of me trying to do both in one winter day and ending up spending the night on the summit of Cliff w/o a bag or bivy.
--Joe 3102w
I won't go into the details of me trying to do both in one winter day and ending up spending the night on the summit of Cliff w/o a bag or bivy.
--Joe 3102w
percious
Well-known member
Last September we hiked Cliff from flowed lands, and then Redfield, making for a long fall day. We returned to Lake Colden at around 8pm with our headlamps, and we had started at about 7:30AM.
I would advise for you to try and start out friday night. If you could hike into Marcy dam, or even better Lake Colden, and set up camp there, you have a better shot of getting both peaks. I think I would advise against going up Cliff from flowed lands due to impenitrable blow-down, that will provide nasty spruce traps in the winter. The herd path up the back side of the mountain is much better.
Again, this is a very long dayhike, making it difficult to complete both peaks in 1 day. I think it will be more realistic to summit just one, or break the trip into 3 days. Hike-in/Summit/Hike-out
-percious
I would advise for you to try and start out friday night. If you could hike into Marcy dam, or even better Lake Colden, and set up camp there, you have a better shot of getting both peaks. I think I would advise against going up Cliff from flowed lands due to impenitrable blow-down, that will provide nasty spruce traps in the winter. The herd path up the back side of the mountain is much better.
Again, this is a very long dayhike, making it difficult to complete both peaks in 1 day. I think it will be more realistic to summit just one, or break the trip into 3 days. Hike-in/Summit/Hike-out
-percious
Rik
New member
I think Cliff from Flowed Lands in winter is the easiest way to get Cliff. Especially if someone has broken out the trail. 
Peakbagr
Well-known member
Alistair,
Coming in from the Upper Works makes more sense if you are going to tag Cliff from the NNE. If you wait until there is substantial snow on the ground, and a good crust, the stuff under 5-6' won't matter as you'll walk right over it. We came in from Flowed Lands one February, took the Opalesent trail for a few minutes before jumping on a bearing right for Cliff's summit. We were at the cannister in an hour or less and back to Flowed lands in even less time.
At that time, there were relatively few people climbing the W46, we just thought it looked like a good route and it was.
This leaves you with doing Redfield as a daytrip. Or, you can drop your full packs at Flowed Lands or the beginning of the bushwack.
With the right snow conditions, you can then do Redfield the next day out of your camp and stay over or return Sunday late in the day.
Have fun.
Coming in from the Upper Works makes more sense if you are going to tag Cliff from the NNE. If you wait until there is substantial snow on the ground, and a good crust, the stuff under 5-6' won't matter as you'll walk right over it. We came in from Flowed Lands one February, took the Opalesent trail for a few minutes before jumping on a bearing right for Cliff's summit. We were at the cannister in an hour or less and back to Flowed lands in even less time.
At that time, there were relatively few people climbing the W46, we just thought it looked like a good route and it was.
This leaves you with doing Redfield as a daytrip. Or, you can drop your full packs at Flowed Lands or the beginning of the bushwack.
With the right snow conditions, you can then do Redfield the next day out of your camp and stay over or return Sunday late in the day.
Have fun.
Pvon
New member
Cliff in February
Once the snow deepens and some brave souls re-establish the path from the Flowed Lands, Cliff becomes one of the easiest winter peaks on any good day.
Pvon
Once the snow deepens and some brave souls re-establish the path from the Flowed Lands, Cliff becomes one of the easiest winter peaks on any good day.
Pvon
peak_bgr
New member
I'm there man. Just give me a decent heads up on when you want to do it.
Pete Hogan
New member
Cliff from Flowed Lands
alistair,
Having completed a winter ascent of Cliff from Flowed Lands, I agree with Rik and Pvon that a western approach is a wise choice in winter. Although the winter bushwhack wanders through some very impressive blowdown and thick forest, once the path is established the "route" can be followed by paying attention to what you see and feel. My partner and I took slightly over 2 hours to ascend from Flowed Lands last March. I am including a log entry that contains some other details.
Cliff Mountain via Flowed Lands
March 18, 2004
The 4.4-mile marked trail from Upper Works to Flowed Lands was in excellent condition. The recent snow provided for a very soft, quiet track. The route across Flowed Lands was deeper, softer and headed in a more northerly direction -- presumably to the Herbert Brook outlet and Lake Colden. Knowing that we had to be positioned closer to the eastern shoreline to locate the start of the western (winter) approach to Cliff we left the established track and located a wind-blown but easily discernable route close to the Livingston lean-to. The bushwhack that begins at the outlet of the western drainage was well defined most of the way to the summit. There were a few places that required some thought and discussion. Even though the route wanders considerably, trust it for it will get you to the summit (probably safer than trying a short cut on your own through a myriad of spruce traps and deadfall). Although relatively short in distance and vertical ascent, the route is deceptively challenging and filled with potential hazards ranging from very deep spruce traps to narrow snow bridges to poking, prodding, piercing, tearing, gouging balsam branches to snow-covered deadfall mazes. The route also has some of the most spectacular, rugged, backcountry scenery anywhere in the High Peaks. The summit marker (NYSDEC red/orange disc with Cliff Mountain written on it) was nailed to the downside of a fallen and buried tree. We spent 20 minutes digging in various locations looking for the marker and finally discovered it. After some careful maneuvering to remove it intact, we re-mounted the summit marker with a plastic wire-tie, eye-level to an upright tree next to the fallen one.
Gore-Tex, bombproof outer layers (jacket, pants, hood, hat, mittens) are necessary for the bushwhack section of this journey. Snow bombs are unavoidable and the only way to stay relatively dry, warm and unscathed was to be as protected as possible. Watching where you stepped in addition to what was about to stick you in the eye, ear or numerous other places made for a careful ascent and descent through some very thick cover. There is also a great sense of adventure inherent in this approach that reminded us of the good old days of canisters and legitimate trail-less paths…less traveled.
Thanks to all who have gone before us. We sincerely appreciate your considerable efforts to not only establish this approach, but keep it in use throughout the winter season. We both agreed that this route was easier, shorter and more scenic than the approach via the ADK Loj and the Uphill Brook lean-to.
alistair,
Having completed a winter ascent of Cliff from Flowed Lands, I agree with Rik and Pvon that a western approach is a wise choice in winter. Although the winter bushwhack wanders through some very impressive blowdown and thick forest, once the path is established the "route" can be followed by paying attention to what you see and feel. My partner and I took slightly over 2 hours to ascend from Flowed Lands last March. I am including a log entry that contains some other details.
Cliff Mountain via Flowed Lands
March 18, 2004
The 4.4-mile marked trail from Upper Works to Flowed Lands was in excellent condition. The recent snow provided for a very soft, quiet track. The route across Flowed Lands was deeper, softer and headed in a more northerly direction -- presumably to the Herbert Brook outlet and Lake Colden. Knowing that we had to be positioned closer to the eastern shoreline to locate the start of the western (winter) approach to Cliff we left the established track and located a wind-blown but easily discernable route close to the Livingston lean-to. The bushwhack that begins at the outlet of the western drainage was well defined most of the way to the summit. There were a few places that required some thought and discussion. Even though the route wanders considerably, trust it for it will get you to the summit (probably safer than trying a short cut on your own through a myriad of spruce traps and deadfall). Although relatively short in distance and vertical ascent, the route is deceptively challenging and filled with potential hazards ranging from very deep spruce traps to narrow snow bridges to poking, prodding, piercing, tearing, gouging balsam branches to snow-covered deadfall mazes. The route also has some of the most spectacular, rugged, backcountry scenery anywhere in the High Peaks. The summit marker (NYSDEC red/orange disc with Cliff Mountain written on it) was nailed to the downside of a fallen and buried tree. We spent 20 minutes digging in various locations looking for the marker and finally discovered it. After some careful maneuvering to remove it intact, we re-mounted the summit marker with a plastic wire-tie, eye-level to an upright tree next to the fallen one.
Gore-Tex, bombproof outer layers (jacket, pants, hood, hat, mittens) are necessary for the bushwhack section of this journey. Snow bombs are unavoidable and the only way to stay relatively dry, warm and unscathed was to be as protected as possible. Watching where you stepped in addition to what was about to stick you in the eye, ear or numerous other places made for a careful ascent and descent through some very thick cover. There is also a great sense of adventure inherent in this approach that reminded us of the good old days of canisters and legitimate trail-less paths…less traveled.
Thanks to all who have gone before us. We sincerely appreciate your considerable efforts to not only establish this approach, but keep it in use throughout the winter season. We both agreed that this route was easier, shorter and more scenic than the approach via the ADK Loj and the Uphill Brook lean-to.
Splitrock821
New member
Cliff/Redfield
Thanks to everyone for the information.
My hiking partner & I are planning a trip to Cliff/Redfield shortly after Christmas, but we haven't confirmed the route yet. We both have a fair amount of backwoods experience, in both winter & summer conditions. I just want to make sure that I understand the posts here explicitly- do you recommend taking a direct westerly approach to Cliff ONLY if you're climbing that mountain, or does it still make sense to camp at the Flowed Lands if you're planning a summit attempt on Redfield the following day? Just figured I would politely request clarification. We had planned on simply heading to the Uphill Lean-To from Upper Workds and using that as our basecamp, but if this makes more sense...
I appreciate it.
Thanks to everyone for the information.
My hiking partner & I are planning a trip to Cliff/Redfield shortly after Christmas, but we haven't confirmed the route yet. We both have a fair amount of backwoods experience, in both winter & summer conditions. I just want to make sure that I understand the posts here explicitly- do you recommend taking a direct westerly approach to Cliff ONLY if you're climbing that mountain, or does it still make sense to camp at the Flowed Lands if you're planning a summit attempt on Redfield the following day? Just figured I would politely request clarification. We had planned on simply heading to the Uphill Lean-To from Upper Workds and using that as our basecamp, but if this makes more sense...
I appreciate it.
adkleaddog
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We did Cliff in one day, no problem from the UW.....from Flowed Lands, just left of the leanto heading south-southwest, you should have no problem finding that route. It starts at the creek bed in the bay, between the island and the LT.
The winter route should be well trodden by midwinter, but if you want to hit Redfield too, maybe an overnighter is best, dependant on your abilities.
From the Uphill LT it would be a lot of work to try the old summer route to do Cliff, I suggest staying at the Livingston LT and do one each day...Cliff one day, Redfield the next, just a thought.
The winter route should be well trodden by midwinter, but if you want to hit Redfield too, maybe an overnighter is best, dependant on your abilities.
From the Uphill LT it would be a lot of work to try the old summer route to do Cliff, I suggest staying at the Livingston LT and do one each day...Cliff one day, Redfield the next, just a thought.
Splitrock821
New member
adkleaddog said:
Okay, thanks for the heads-up. We're already planning to an overnight, but I just wanted to see if the Livingston LT made sense if we were planning to do both Cliff & Redfield before hiking out. From what I understand, there will be two teams summitting Cliff & Redfield within days of each other, so potentially both routes will be open. I'll post to confirm plans later on. Thanks again for the info.
Pete Hogan
New member
Cliff and Redfield considerations
Splitrock821....
After reading this post, the final decision on what course of action to take must remain with the members of your climbing team. I have some thoughts to share regarding your Cliff and Redfield plans.
Some other members of this board have responded with their recommendations of a winter approach to Cliff from the west (Flowed Lands) as being a better choice than the usual approach from the Uphill Brook lean-to. I have also stated that recommendation as my preference based on personal experience. However, that is contingent on a few important and unknown conditions at this point.
First, the "ease" of the western approach depends on the winter route being broken-out and to this date, I have not read any trip reports to that effect. Reaching the last eastern-most bay of Flowed Lands (keeping the visible rock cliffs above the western drainage of Cliff to the northeast) is where the winter herd path begins. But, as stated in my previous post on this thread, the path wanders over and through some very thick deadfall mazes and deep spruce traps. If the route has not been tracked, it would prompt some serious thought to initiate "Plan B" (see below). The depth of the snow is another critical factor in the western ascent. There are many potential "traps" as you work your way through and over this serious blowdown and a deep base keeps the margin for safety within reason. If you are so inclined, the bushwhack generally follows the western drainage (generally 151 degrees MN) to the most prominent summit saddle as depicted on the Mount Marcy, 1979 7.5X15 topo. If you keep the drainage on your left (north) as well as the highly visible rock cliffs as you gain elevation and then drift slightly south in the upper reaches you should be near the summit when you work upwards towards the height of land. Be advised, however, it is not a route that can stay on a fixed bearing (although one would be helpful in keeping you generally on course) due to so many obstacles, twists and turns.
Another factor would be the extra weight of full packs ascending the western approach to Cliff. This would have an effect on individual endurance as well as open up the possibilities for more frequent, deeper and more difficult "traps". However, it is possible to ascend over Cliff via the western approach and descend the traditional route to Uphill Brook lean-to for an overnight. The following day you could ascend Redfield via Uphill Brook and return the same way before packing out via established routes to the Upper Works.
"Plan B" involves heading to Uphill Brook Lean-to and establishing that as a base camp. If that becomes clear to you on your crossing of Flowed Lands, you will then have to take the traditional approach to Cliff on one day and the climb Redfield on another. If my goal was both summits, then I would seriously consider Uphill Brook as my base and go from there. It is not inconceivable that both could be achieved in one day, but not likely after the time and energy it takes to hike to Uphill Brook Lean-to and establish camp. I would lean towards "Plan B" if you are unsure of the success of the western approach to Cliff.
I would also recommend a minimum group of 4 for this challenging trip as your personal security and percentage for success increase with additional team members. Trail breaking will probably be a factor in either route so be ready for a very physical, but extremely exciting adventure.
Whatever you decide, good luck to you and your group. Sorry for the length of this post. It is difficult sometimes to share information without sounding too directive.
Splitrock821....
After reading this post, the final decision on what course of action to take must remain with the members of your climbing team. I have some thoughts to share regarding your Cliff and Redfield plans.
Some other members of this board have responded with their recommendations of a winter approach to Cliff from the west (Flowed Lands) as being a better choice than the usual approach from the Uphill Brook lean-to. I have also stated that recommendation as my preference based on personal experience. However, that is contingent on a few important and unknown conditions at this point.
First, the "ease" of the western approach depends on the winter route being broken-out and to this date, I have not read any trip reports to that effect. Reaching the last eastern-most bay of Flowed Lands (keeping the visible rock cliffs above the western drainage of Cliff to the northeast) is where the winter herd path begins. But, as stated in my previous post on this thread, the path wanders over and through some very thick deadfall mazes and deep spruce traps. If the route has not been tracked, it would prompt some serious thought to initiate "Plan B" (see below). The depth of the snow is another critical factor in the western ascent. There are many potential "traps" as you work your way through and over this serious blowdown and a deep base keeps the margin for safety within reason. If you are so inclined, the bushwhack generally follows the western drainage (generally 151 degrees MN) to the most prominent summit saddle as depicted on the Mount Marcy, 1979 7.5X15 topo. If you keep the drainage on your left (north) as well as the highly visible rock cliffs as you gain elevation and then drift slightly south in the upper reaches you should be near the summit when you work upwards towards the height of land. Be advised, however, it is not a route that can stay on a fixed bearing (although one would be helpful in keeping you generally on course) due to so many obstacles, twists and turns.
Another factor would be the extra weight of full packs ascending the western approach to Cliff. This would have an effect on individual endurance as well as open up the possibilities for more frequent, deeper and more difficult "traps". However, it is possible to ascend over Cliff via the western approach and descend the traditional route to Uphill Brook lean-to for an overnight. The following day you could ascend Redfield via Uphill Brook and return the same way before packing out via established routes to the Upper Works.
"Plan B" involves heading to Uphill Brook Lean-to and establishing that as a base camp. If that becomes clear to you on your crossing of Flowed Lands, you will then have to take the traditional approach to Cliff on one day and the climb Redfield on another. If my goal was both summits, then I would seriously consider Uphill Brook as my base and go from there. It is not inconceivable that both could be achieved in one day, but not likely after the time and energy it takes to hike to Uphill Brook Lean-to and establish camp. I would lean towards "Plan B" if you are unsure of the success of the western approach to Cliff.
I would also recommend a minimum group of 4 for this challenging trip as your personal security and percentage for success increase with additional team members. Trail breaking will probably be a factor in either route so be ready for a very physical, but extremely exciting adventure.
Whatever you decide, good luck to you and your group. Sorry for the length of this post. It is difficult sometimes to share information without sounding too directive.
Splitrock821
New member
Pete Hogan said:
Pete-
Thank you for your input; I appreciate you taking the time to write so thorough a response. It's distinctly possible that we'll end up hiking into the Uphill Brook LT, and going from there. We're only planning to climb one peak per day, for as you mentioned, the combination is extremely difficult. We still haven't decided on the route, but with the amount of literature & experience that is posted on the NNE approach for Cliff & its proximity to Redfield, it may make the most sense. In any event, we'll be finalizing the itinerary Sunday evening- I'll post to let the group know where we went & what conditions we encountered. Any other suggestions are welcome. Thanks again.
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