Hiking in Maine - Do you have your permit?

[forestgnome]

afkabob, you must be kidding!!!

We have the highest income and the second lowest taxes because we're close to Boston?!!!

Massachusetts is closer to Boston than NH, Bob!!! What's up with that?!! Nice try!

We have the second-lowest taxes because we're close to Boston? Sorry. It's because we have more freedom and less socialism to pay for.

Bob, you made some good points, like how we should count our blessings. But our blessings don't come from taxes and government programs. It comes from our freedom, hard work, and freedom to keep more of OUR OWN MONEY THAT WE WORK HARD FOR!!!

Do you think we all work in Boston.?!! When I read that I almost spit out my beer! Hysterically funny, Bob!

 

[afka_bob]

Please re-read: I said "also benefits." It's one contributor (i.e., not the whole story) to NH's prosperity that Maine does not share in. I don't think we all work in Boston (nor does my argument rely on hyperbole -- as parts of yours seems to). And we were comparing NH and Maine, as I recall, right?

And low NH taxes don't hurt, as you have pointed out. That NH is near the populated end of Massachusetts is a sweet deal for NH merchants to sell tax-free to Massachusetts residents wishing to avoid the Massachusetts sales tax -- which would be another instance of NH's economic benefit of proximity to Boston and low taxes.

I think if you had a map of average incomes in NH, they would fall off quite sharply above Concord.

And being near Boston but not in Boston has its benefits: high salaries commute home to NH at night and leave low-income social-service "consumers" in town. No many people move to NH for the social services, so that has to affect the income averages between NH and Massachusetts. This allows southern NH to skim a substantial part of the cream from the Boston milk can.

Sorry 'bout the beer.

 

[twigeater]

you already have to pay to enter state publicly owned lands.

Actually, it's free to hike and camp on Public Lands in Maine...

I wasn't at work today, so it's good to hear about the kayak fee being taken out - thanks Spencer!

 

[forestgnome]

I think if you had a map of average incomes in NH, they would fall off quite sharply above Concord.

So most people living in Concord and below work in Boston, then commute home?

I'll bet you have a reason why Boston allows our low taxation, right? It has nothing to do with us bumpkins. Could it be, just maybe, that we VOTE FOR LOWER TAXES all by ourselves?

 

[afka_bob]

Who said most?

Lots do. And they spend lots of that money in NH.

Are you suggesting that NH exists in an economic vaccum?

Again, my argument doesn't rely on hyperbole, and that hyperbole doesn't save yours.

And I already said above:

And low NH taxes don't hurt, as you have pointed out.

I'm trying to agree with you on this point, if you'll let me.

Now, why are some of the richest counties in the US in NJ and Connecticut? Does that have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they also straddle NYC? Last time I checked, NYC was in NY, not NJ or Connecticut -- of course, I am the product of a "failed public school," so maybe I better check again!

 

[forestgnome]

afkabob,

O.K. I don't think NH is in a vaccuum economically. Tourism depends on...tourists! But Maine has, IMHO, far more tourism potential than NH, which can neatly bring us back to the original topic of a paddle tax.

NH is beating the pants off ME in tourism. Right now there is a problem where the state (ME) has stop respecting NH snowmobile registrations, although they always have, and NH still honors ME registrations. Oh, they state some reasons about too much trail expense and no revenue from NH riders. Big picture? Local Maine business owners who depend on NH riders are hurting because the riders are staying in NH instead of paying for two registrations.

This is just another example of their problem over there. The paddle tax is yet another bandaid for the budget problem. If they didn't spend a zillion dollars on socialism, they wouldn't need these bandaids.

 

[afka_bob]

Tourism is a notoriously low-payer. The parts of NH that depend on tourism dollars have both lower populations and lower average wages. In other words, they look a lot like Maine. The real money is in southern NH, near -- what was that other state? [leafing feverishly through the dictionary] where the heck are those maps? Oh yeah -- [throwing down dictionary and scooping up atlas -- remember, this is the product of a "failed public school"] -- Massachusetts! And not just Massachusetts, eastern Massachusetts -- you know, the end with Boston in it (I didn't, of course, until I looked at the map and somebody turned it over for me -- I was holding it upside down! (see "failed public school" above)).

Turning to your tourism example, NH ski areas do a lot better than Maine in no small part because they are 1-3 hours from Boston, and Maine ski areas take a lot longer to get to.

Another great mystery?
Maine gets fewer snomobilers from Massachusetts than NH.
Eastern Quebec gets fewer Massachusetts snowmobilers than Maine.
Labrador gets fewer Massachusetts snowmobilers than eastern Quebec.
Greenland gets fewer Massachusetts snowmobilers than Labrador.
The North Pole gets fewer Massachusetts snowmobilers than Greenland.

Lower taxes in NH? Or geography?

I think it's both.

 

[forestgnome]

Afkabob,

I'll give you the benefit of proximity to Boston on income, but what does low taxation have to do with income? CT has the second highest income, yet they are at, or near, the highest in taxation.

Don't take the "failed public schools" thing personally. My wife went to government schools and she is academically superior to me, but, hey, I'm the artist type. You are obviously well-educated and a quick wit, and a clear writer, although I'd bet you're mostly self-educated, resulting from a solid grammer schooling and sincere interest in issues. You also attended school before the hippie generation (I used to be a hippie) infested the government schools. They had to fix what wasn't broken. Their John Dewey style of education has failed miserably. We spend more tax-money per pupil than any other nation, yet we rank about 19th. How is it that Indian and Korean 8th graders are academically superior to our college freshmen? This is a touchy subject for me; I'm $40k in debt for two education degrees, but I wouldn't step foot in a government school; it makes me sick. I won't comment any further on government schools, but please don't pretend that they are a success, or that the problem is money ( not that you have).

Anyway, if Maine has low income, geography aside, why tax the people and businesses to death? Although it may be dropped, the paddle tax is a shining example of what is wrong with Maine government. The budget problem is high spending, not low revenue.

I hope you're on your way up here, it's going to be beautiful out there today.

 

[kaibar]

Welcome to ME The Second Highest Taxes In The US

If Maine can find a way to tax something they will! Our state is a freaking mess and our neighbor NH with no income tax (ME 8.5%) and no sales tax (ME 5%) does a better job at education with substantially less money spent per pupil. My brother in law lives in Southern NH in a larger house on a bigger lot and even pays less than me in property taxes (my house $6600.00)! Next they will be adding an environment impact tax on sale of backpacks and hiking boots... The below info is from the non-partisan group "The Tax Foundation".. Living in Maine is a love/hate kind of relationship!


Tax Burdens by State from "The Tax Foundation"


Tax Burden Rank


New York 12.9% 1
Maine 12.3% 2
Ohio 11.3% 3 O
Hawaii 11.3% 4
Rhode Island 11.1% 5
Wisconsin 11.1% 6
Utah 10.8% 7
West Virginia 10.6% 8
Connecticut 10.6% 9
Minnesota 10.5% 10

 

[TJ aka Teej]

TransPass reader at Trailheads?

The canoe and kayak fee is gone, that's a good thing.
But what's the latest news on the user card?

 

[spencer]

My understanding is that the user card never was in the budget. it was another measured put forward as a suggestion to increase recreation revenue. If the c/k fee got tossed, I'm sure the user card didn't go any further.

for this year at least...

spencer

 

[twigeater]

Actually, neither have been tossed yet...I understand there is an amendment that takes out the kayak fee, but I haven't looked through them yet.

The non consumptive use permit language was for a study, and I haven't heard yet what happened to that.

There is still time to contact legislators and express an opinion, they are voting again later today.

 

[twigeater]

There are House amendments that either strike or amend the fee, and no Senate amendments. I don't see anything that addresses the non consumptive user fee.

 

[jjmcgo]

Afka Bob, forestnome

Interesting analyses of New Hampshire's prosperity but you omitted the No. 1 reason why N.H. is so popular with out-of-staters: You can buy ammo and cheap liquor in the same store ... while smoking!!!

 

[afka_bob]

[striking forhead] douy! I miss the forest for the trees.