MSR Lightning
- Thread starter Robs
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gram
Member
I love mine - 21 inches, no televators. They are so light - that's what sold me on them. My husband and I don't break trail in the winter, so we don't need a lot of flotation. Their compact size means they are very maneuverable.
We do find ourselves on a lot of packed down icy type slopes and the traction is great.
Do a search and you'll find lots of discussion on snowshoes here on this board.
We do find ourselves on a lot of packed down icy type slopes and the traction is great.
Do a search and you'll find lots of discussion on snowshoes here on this board.
P-N-T
New member
Love my lightening ascents
I love my MSR Lightening Ascents. The best thing I've ever bought. The televators are excellent. I use them to do the Winter 46 in the ADK. I use the 25" version cause you never know when you'll need to break trail. They are very light and if you have to carry them on your pack you don't even notice the weight. I've used several other kinds in the past and they do not compare in any way to how well these work.
T
I love my MSR Lightening Ascents. The best thing I've ever bought. The televators are excellent. I use them to do the Winter 46 in the ADK. I use the 25" version cause you never know when you'll need to break trail. They are very light and if you have to carry them on your pack you don't even notice the weight. I've used several other kinds in the past and they do not compare in any way to how well these work.
T
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I recently got a set of the Lightning Ascents. Got the small ones, 22".
I have a great pair of Tubbs 24" mountaineering shoes and a couple of sets of Sherpa shoes but wanted to try the televators and the really small size for when I'm not doing a lot of breaking or carrying on the do-I or don't-I need snowshoe days.
I have a great pair of Tubbs 24" mountaineering shoes and a couple of sets of Sherpa shoes but wanted to try the televators and the really small size for when I'm not doing a lot of breaking or carrying on the do-I or don't-I need snowshoe days.
DougPaul
Well-known member
There are many previous threads on snowshoes. Some include reports of Lightnings failing:
Eg:
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15884
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19417
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19650
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21234
Doug
Eg:
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15884
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19417
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19650
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21234
Doug
I'm sure I am one of the people in the threads quoted by Doug.
I was using my wife's 22" Lightnings as a backup when my 25"s were broken, which was all too often. Then, last fall, November I think, I wore hers in the Santanonis and descended by the old path--then hers were broken too, and I was ordered to not use them again.
At that point I got a pair of MSR Denali evo ascents, which I wore extensively last winter without incident. They are far more durable and sturdy than the Lightnings. I like the Lightnings very much in use, but the crampons need to be redesigned. If you own a pair, after each hike inspect the area around the rivets where the binding is weak and subject to breakage. This weakness would be easy to remedy, just use thicker and/or stronger metal: compare the Lightning binding crampon to the Denali crampon.
Now I only wear the Lightnings in the best of conditions (new snow, not too deep, not too thin, not rocks, not steep, etc.). MSR has told me the most recent repair was the "last time", so next time they fail they'll be going into the metal recycle dumpster (some really nice alloys, I'm sure). Or maybe I will just mount them on the wall to admire . . .
P-N-T
New member
No problems yet . . .
After reading these posts I went right home last night to make sure my lightnings were ok. I just love those things and these posts got me worried. Outside of a little bit of rust that I lightly sanded off everthing looks just dandy. I don't know if we just got lucky or because we use a larger size than our weight recommended (the 25") but they look and work great and we beat on them pretty hard. Ice, snow, rocks . . . we just walk right over them without worry. We get out nearly every weekend, and granted we've only used them one season, but they've been up at least 13 ADK high peaks, and numerous other bumps, so they've seen plenty of rocks. I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed and keep checking them over because I would not want to have to hike again with my other snowshoes, these ones have me spoiled. T
After reading these posts I went right home last night to make sure my lightnings were ok. I just love those things and these posts got me worried. Outside of a little bit of rust that I lightly sanded off everthing looks just dandy. I don't know if we just got lucky or because we use a larger size than our weight recommended (the 25") but they look and work great and we beat on them pretty hard. Ice, snow, rocks . . . we just walk right over them without worry. We get out nearly every weekend, and granted we've only used them one season, but they've been up at least 13 ADK high peaks, and numerous other bumps, so they've seen plenty of rocks. I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed and keep checking them over because I would not want to have to hike again with my other snowshoes, these ones have me spoiled. T
Joe,
I had read your comments before getting the Lightnings. My thought was that I wanted to try the televators in combination with the size and weight of the Lightnings.
If they go belly up on me, I can use my Tubbs or either pair of Sherpas as backups while they are being repaired. I'd also talked to others who haven't had a problem yet. Not convinced on the Lightnings, just took a shot to see how they work out. I'll use my Tubbs if I'm doing something where they are really going to be thrashed.
I wonder if the failures some have had with MSR snowshoes might have to do with MSR being purchased by Cascade Designs? When MSR was started 20 or 25 years ago it was a small, hard core, company with cutting edge materials and designs. Some of their gear like the XGK stove was the gold standard. The 'old' MSR would have done something about what its customers perceived as a faulty design. Maybe an outdoors holding company like Cascade Designs doesn't have the same intention to be the best?
Besides, a Joe Cedar winter is like dog years. One of yours = 7 of a 'normal' person's hikes.
I had read your comments before getting the Lightnings. My thought was that I wanted to try the televators in combination with the size and weight of the Lightnings.
If they go belly up on me, I can use my Tubbs or either pair of Sherpas as backups while they are being repaired. I'd also talked to others who haven't had a problem yet. Not convinced on the Lightnings, just took a shot to see how they work out. I'll use my Tubbs if I'm doing something where they are really going to be thrashed.
I wonder if the failures some have had with MSR snowshoes might have to do with MSR being purchased by Cascade Designs? When MSR was started 20 or 25 years ago it was a small, hard core, company with cutting edge materials and designs. Some of their gear like the XGK stove was the gold standard. The 'old' MSR would have done something about what its customers perceived as a faulty design. Maybe an outdoors holding company like Cascade Designs doesn't have the same intention to be the best?
Besides, a Joe Cedar winter is like dog years. One of yours = 7 of a 'normal' person's hikes.
DougPaul
Well-known member
I don't have any specific knowledge, but Cascade Designs has a very good reputation for supporting some of their other gear (eg Thermarest pads).
Doug
I like Cascade Designs and have their stuff. Not a knock on them at all but they are not a hardware company in the sense that MSR's founding and history have demonstrated.
I really like the Lightning snowshoes and wish I could use them all the time. Performance, both uphill and down, is great. Unfortunately, for marketing purposes, they wanted to claim
"Ultralight: The lightest snowshoe in its class. "
Because of this, they have used both thinner gauge steel and less of it for the crampons, compared with the Denali evo or Denali. The objective was to be able to say they were the "lightest", not to be the most durable or reliable. I even tried mounting the Denali evo crampon/binding assembly on the Lightnings. The are a little tight and not a perfect fit. When the current Lightning crampons break, I might just buy a spare set from the Denali evo and see if they will work.
The ascent Televators are a nice feature on both models. But you really need a fairly open and long, steep grade to use them. For example, Allen Brook or Algonquin open rock slope above the Wright junction. On terrain with changing slope, it is annoying to have to take them up and down frequently. Leaning over is a great opportunity for the snow on your pack to fall down your neck--cool.
One last point and I'll shut up: excessive body weight (beyond the design limits) is not the cause of these failures. I think I am in the "normal" weight range (bw about 160 pounds) and you can look up past reports from our petit colleagues, Highonlife and Kerry, who also broke their Lightnings. The product is not built strong enough for normal use in mountain hiking, such as in the Adirondacks or Whites. It is probably fine for walking around golf courses or groomed trails--which in numbers is probably where most of their sales come from.
"Ultralight: The lightest snowshoe in its class. "
Because of this, they have used both thinner gauge steel and less of it for the crampons, compared with the Denali evo or Denali. The objective was to be able to say they were the "lightest", not to be the most durable or reliable. I even tried mounting the Denali evo crampon/binding assembly on the Lightnings. The are a little tight and not a perfect fit. When the current Lightning crampons break, I might just buy a spare set from the Denali evo and see if they will work.
The ascent Televators are a nice feature on both models. But you really need a fairly open and long, steep grade to use them. For example, Allen Brook or Algonquin open rock slope above the Wright junction. On terrain with changing slope, it is annoying to have to take them up and down frequently. Leaning over is a great opportunity for the snow on your pack to fall down your neck--cool
.One last point and I'll shut up: excessive body weight (beyond the design limits) is not the cause of these failures. I think I am in the "normal" weight range (bw about 160 pounds) and you can look up past reports from our petit colleagues, Highonlife and Kerry, who also broke their Lightnings. The product is not built strong enough for normal use in mountain hiking, such as in the Adirondacks or Whites. It is probably fine for walking around golf courses or groomed trails--which in numbers is probably where most of their sales come from.
DougPaul
Well-known member
I wasn't suggesting that their histories and product lines had to be identical, just that both have quality-oriented company cultures.
However:
Cascade Designs:
* therm-a-rest pads
* platypus hydration
* seal-line dry bags
* tracks poles
MSR:
* tents
* stoves
* cookware
* hydration
* water treatment
* snowshoes
* poles
* camp towels
Hmm... Looks to me like a non-trivial amount of similarity in their product lines.
Doug
Its not the similarity in their curent product lines, its the intensity that the original MSR founders brought to their designs. Insane attention to detail and function. With reports of product failures that Joe Cedar reported they would have found a way to fix or discontinue the product.
Chip
Well-known member
Based on my reading of these threads, MSR's response to snowshoe failures is "Really, Wow, I've never heard of that happening before."
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If mine break, and I'm not easy on snowshoes, I'll go for a refund not a repair.
Chip
Well-known member
Interestingly for anyone counting ounces and FWIW, Crescent Moon has a 9 x 27 teardrop design this year that is about 12 ozs lighter then the 8 x 25 Lightning Ascents and about 10 ozs lighter than the 8 x 22's. The "load" recommendation on the 9 x 27 Crescent Moons is to 195lbs and is to 175lbs on the MSR 8 x 25's. Prices on both seem to be about $225.
As a larger-than-average athletic {cyclist,skier,hiker} I am typically harder than average on my equipment. Anything marketed as lightest or ultralight is not for me 'cause it simply will not stand up to my (ab)use. I broke three Cannondale (CreakAndFail) frames before I gave up on aluminum and went with a Serotta Atlanta (Reynolds 531 steel) which so far has 32,000+ miles on it over 10 seasons. "Lightest" and "Ultralight" and words of that ilk are a clear sign for me to avoid them.
My MSR Denalis have been satisfactory so far. I broke the televator on pair but I believe that to be my fault and so far the replacement pair have been fine.
YMMV,
Tim
My MSR Denalis have been satisfactory so far. I broke the televator on pair but I believe that to be my fault and so far the replacement pair have been fine.
YMMV,
Tim
DougPaul
Well-known member
Don't forget to include your pack weight in your load estimates.
<babble>
When I was young, foolish, and strong, I once carried 90-100 lbs. That came to a total of Yoiks!...
</babble>
Doug
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Chip
Well-known member
I guess MSR owners know this, but the company does categorize it's non-"Ascent" snowshoes as for Flat and Rolling terrain. I'd have to re-read everything to see if problems reported are across the board or more with the non-"Ascent" series.
DougPaul
Well-known member
Marketing.
I think the only real difference between the Ascent and the corresponding non-Ascent model is the televator (heel lifter) and ~US$30.
MSR Denali snowshoes have had very good traction on steep terrain since the beginning and continue to do so. IMO, if you want the heel lift, get it, otherwise save the $30.
Doug
