Pemi Area Hike Questions

[eddie]

I am already thinking about next summer hikes!?

1. Pemi Loop - Starting at Kanc Hwy on Lincoln Woods Tr over Bondcliff and to Galehead Hut for Day 1. We are average speed hikers with stamina. Is it possible to get Zealand and North Twin on Day 1? Probably adds at least 3 to 4 hours, or should I just go for North Twin only and get Zealand with Hale on another day hike. Day 2, Garfield and around the ridge back to Kanc Hwy (get Owl's Head some other time). How many hours hiking is each day? What about water?

The ADK is advertising a guided four day trip following this route but gets Owl's Head from Galehead Hut on one of the days. The pace seems a little slow??

2. How is trying to get Hale, Zealand, Willey, Field and Tom all in one day, spotting two cars? Too ambitious? How many hours for this?

I hate to blow through them too fast because I love summit time to enjoy the views but I am also a peakbagger who lives in Pittsburgh, and getting to the Whites is tough, so efficiency on each trip yields best peakbagging results. Any advise and comments are appreciated.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

In planning trips for the future, I have S Twin, N Twin, Zealand and Hale (coming down via the Firewarden's Trail / herd path) at 17.5 miles and 5300' (TOPO! 4.0, which always underestimates distance by about 10-20%). Garfield + Galehead on another trip, and Willey, Tom and Field on a third trip.

You don't say which peak(s) you really need, so if you list them, maybe someone (Mohammed? Dave?) can give you the minimal path. You also didn't say whether you're backpacking or day hiking. Clearly if you stay at Guyot or one of the huts, you can get more peaks for less miles then if you have to hike out and back in for each trip.

I can only get out once per month, so I am on a 3-4 year plan to get my NH48 (I was on a 7 year plan, but did 14 in '06 rather then 7 I expected.) I'm not particularly interested in rushing through them, but I do enjoy having One Big Hike (tm) every year. This year it was Three Bonds from Lincoln Woods.

HTH,
Tim

 

[David Metsky]

1) If you describe yourself as average pace hikers, then no, I'd say this was too much to do in a single day. You can probably do the Bonds and Twins, but heading over to Zealand adds quite a bit at the end of a long day, before the big descent to Galehead Hut. By the time you get to South Twin you might decide that North Twin is too much as well.

The second day is also a long one, but doable. The section between Galehead Hut and Garfield is a lot tougher then it looks on the map. Start early and keep moving. Once you hit Lafayette it's psychologically all downhill, but it's a long trip down.

Plan on full days of hiking, at least 8-10 hours each day if you go at average speeds and take usual breaks. If you've never been it would be a shame to rush through some of the nicest terrrain in the Whites. Also, if the weather turns nasty there are parts of the trip you probably won't want to be hiking on.

2) The second trip is also a full day, you should be expecting a long day as well. You'll be hiking for a long time, and there aren't many spectacular views along the way except for Zeacliff. It's a long time to spend in the trees.

-dave-

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

...2. How is trying to get Hale, Zealand, Willey, Field and Tom all in one day, spotting two cars? Too ambitious? How many hours for this?...

Hale-Zealand-Tom-Field-Willey
Hale Brook Trail to Mt. Hale...
Lend-a-hand Trail to Twinway to Zealand Mtn....
back down Twinway to Zealand Trail to A-Z Trail...
Up A-Z Trail to Willey Range Trail and Mt. Tom Spur...
Up Mt. Tom and back, then over Field and Willey on Willey Range Trail...
Down to Ethan Pond Trail, then out to parking area on Rt 302

Mileage.....= 20.2 miles
Elev. gain..= 6,650'
Total time.= All Freakin' Day It can be done though.

Note: The lower part of the 2.7 miles on the A-Z Trail a bit overgrown and the upper part is very rough and rocky.
The descent off of Willey is very steep and has several ladders.
You'll pass near the Zealand Hut twice(Near junction of Lend-a-Hand Tr.and Twinway), a nice spot to refill water, use bathroom, eat, etc.

 

[eddie]

Great responses, you're all convincing me to break 'em up into smaller hikes unless I get the urge to hike "all freakin' day".

 

[Fen]

Using the WMG for elevations/mileage and calculating book time, I get 4950 ft., 15.4 miles and 10:10 for day one of your Pemi loop (including West Bond). Water is available at Black Brook and Guyot. I haven't personally been to Guyot but I believe it is a short hike down to the water source from the Bondcliff trail.

Adding Zealand is 850 ft., 2.8 miles, 1:49.

Adding North Twin is 750 ft., 2.6 miles, 1:40.

Do you know what percentage of book time you typically hike in the Whites?

Things to consider:

1. It sounds like you are thinking of staying at Galehead. Dinner is served at 6 pm, and you will probably want to stay for breakfast as well, precluding an early start on day two.

2. On the way in, you will pass the short spur trail to Franconia Falls. (My guess - 150 ft, 0.8 miles, 0:28 round trip). The falls are dramatic and I would think irresistible in summer ("the best swimming hole in America") but they would end up taking a lot of time. A free permit is required to visit them (available at Lincoln Woods).

3. The Bondcliff summit may be the best place in the world. I'd allow some time to hang out and savor the views.

Dave said:

The section between Galehead Hut and Garfield is a lot tougher then it looks on the map.

I've been strongly warned to avoid this section of trail. And I have, so I can't comment on it.

 

[eddie]

My speed gauge: Started at Rt 16, did the Great Gulf, Six Husbands to Jefferson, Loop, Gulfside to Adams to Madison to Osgood back to GG and out in 11 1/2 hours with 55 mins of break time at the summits. Another time up Tuckermans from Pinkham to Mt Wash in 2:35, over to Monroe down via Boott Spur and out in total time 8 hrs with 60 minutes of summit time and about 15 minutes of photos. Both times with daypacks in beautiful summer weather and a 13 year old. So how does that compare to the WMG?

 

[--M.]

I'm a reasonably fit and experienced 40-year-old. When I really got back into hiking a few years ago, I found that 12 miles in the Whites was a long, arduous day. Most thru-hikers would call 20 miles in one day a lot, until they hit the Whites, when 20 miles in one day gets called unrealistic. I've heard of fast-&-light trail-runners doing Pemi loops in one day, but if you're not doing it regularly and already know your book-times and personal speeds & endurances, these could well be death-marches.

I am now as fast as book time for day hikes, but would never attempt these mileages under full pack.

Maybe this helps calibrate, maybe.

By the way, Garfield to Franconia Ridge and all along the ridge gets mighty dry. We ran out carrying two liters and finishing in 10 hours.

Have a great time, hike your own hike!

--M.

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

My speed gauge: Started at Rt 16, did the Great Gulf, Six Husbands to Jefferson, Loop, Gulfside to Adams to Madison to Osgood back to GG and out in 11 1/2 hours with 55 mins of break time at the summits. Another time up Tuckermans from Pinkham to Mt Wash in 2:35, over to Monroe down via Boott Spur and out in total time 8 hrs with 60 minutes of summit time and about 15 minutes of photos. Both times with daypacks in beautiful summer weather and a 13 year old. So how does that compare to the WMG?

Sounds like you wouldn't have much trouble with a 2-day Pemi Loop. I'd save Zealand for another hike though, you don't want to miss supper at the hut. You may need to save North Twin for later as well, but by the time you get to South Twin you'll know if you have time or not. Plan on about 45-60 minutes from South Twin to Galehead Hut. It's a very steep descent.

 

[grouseking]

I've never hiked the entire loop, but I have hiked many sections of that loop. In my opinion, if you have the extra time, stretch that loop over more than two days. I think you would get much more out of it than just cramming it into two days, no matter how fit you are. I know someone who can do the loop in 8.5 hours, but he basically runs the whole way. To truely get the experience of a lifetime out of a hike like the Pemi Loop I would think you should stretch it out over several days.

This would be my perfect Pemi Loop Hike....

Monday...late start hike in and camp out somewhere on the lower sections of the Bondcliff trail, legally.

Tuesday...Hike to Bondcliff and Bond, set up camp at Guyot Shelter, relax, and go to bed.

Wednesday...Wake up early and go to watch sunrise from West Bond, then go back, pack up your stuff and hit Guyot, South Twin, Galehead and then the Garfield Tentsite.

Thursday...Probably the most arduous day...hike over Garfield to Franconia Ridge hitting Lafayette, Lincoln, Little Haystack and Liberty. Camp at Liberty Springs.

Friday...Hit Liberty again and then Flume, and hike the 5.5 miles back to the car. Hopefully the weather cooperates every day...thats the only drawback for being out 5 days.

I'm pretty sure all the places to camp that I mentioned have water at them or there is at least water along the way, like at Galehead Hut, or Greenleaf Hut, but thats kind off the trip route...and 1000 feet lower!

Like someone said earlier, hike your own hike, but thats my dream trip!

grouseking

 

[percious]

If you are out for peakbagging, consider leaving a car at Zealand TH and one at the Galehead.

Day1:
Spot Car, Hike into Guyot Shelter. Hit Zealand on the way. If you have energy Hike the Bonds.

Day2: Hike the Bonds.

Day3: Hike Remainder of the Bonds, then Hike out over N/S Twin and down the Galehead Trail, Galehead is easy to get from the junction.

The benefit of grabbing North Twin and heading down galehead in stead of vice-versa is that there is less elevation difference between N/S twin than N Twin and Galehead. Thanks to Arm for this beta! The distance between N/S is 1.3 and not all that challenging.

If you hike the bonds on Day 1, it leaves the option of staying at Garfield Shelter on Day 2 and then grabbing Garfield before heading out.

Both Guyot and Garfield are popular shelters, so I recommend having a backup tarp/bivy/tent.

As for Tom/Field/Willey. Pretty easy to do as a dayhike. I recommend heading up the Avalon trail to grab Field because the view of the presis is really great from there. Jaunt over to Willey, re-attain Field, and then grab Tom before heading out. We did this as a backpack, heading down to the Zealand valley and camping on day 1 along the river. Day 2 we hiked to Ethan Pond, and then out on Day 3. It was a nice circtuitous route, which included an awesome waterfall (Ripley) on Day 3.

Hope this helps.

-percious

 

[Gris]

The Pemiwegasset is to be savored, like a fine Argentine wine; not chugga-lugged like cheap malt liquor...

 

[David Metsky]

The Pemiwegasset is to be savored, like a fine Argentine wine; not chugga-lugged like cheap malt liquor...

<Dan Ackroyd>It can be both!</DA>

 

[Mike P.]

I did the loop this year, okay in two days 4 months apart. Can be done getting to Galehead in a day, a long day. I started 09/30 at 4:30 AM & was at the hut before 2:00 (3 Bonds & two Twins). If you are faster than book time for a 8-10 mile day by mile 14 you likely won't be. I hit Galehead Mt. & then down Twin Brook & back to the car on Franconia Brook & LW. You could add Zealand but the added fatigue of that & North Twin would make going down the Twinway off South Twin hard for anyone who does not do 20+ days often. (I dragged going up North twin & then back up South Twin after the other 3 & I did manage a Presi-Traverse in June)

In May I did the other 1/2 of the loop , again hitting Galehead & descending the same way. 2nd time for me going from Lafayette to Galehead & third for Garfield to Galehead. Garfield Ridge trail from treeline on Lafayette to Galehead (besides Garfield's summit which technically is not on the trail) may be my least liked trail.

Going from Galehead Hut to Owl's head & back to the hut is doable, If I wanted to end a hike with a climb of over 1,000 feet (Up Twin Brook) in 2+ miles, this trail would be one I would consider

I've spotted a car & done Twins & Zealand before descending Zealand trail to 2nd car & I've done a loop starting at Ethan Pond Trail at 302 done the three Willey Range Peaks, descended via AZ went to the hut & then took Ethan Pond back to the car, with a car spotted at AZ, Hale would be easily doable, slogging up to Zealand & then doing Hale woul be a pain. Doing Hale, Zealand, then Tom, Field & Willey would make more sense, I would backtrack after Willey to Field & Descend Avalon trail over descending Willey range through.

 

[Raymond]

I don't remember anything particularly tough about the trail between Garfield and Galehead Hut in that direction, but when I hiked it I had caught up to an Appalachian Trail thru-hiker and we started talking so I probably wasn't paying close attention.

I haven't hiked anything between South Twin and West Bond, or south or west of Zealand, so I have no idea how difficult or easy those trails may be.