Question about creating a new waypoint w/GPSMap 60CS

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steppinwolf

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I recently purchased a Garmin 60cs and am getting familiar with the user's manual. In the section on creating waypoints, it tells how to create one using the map panning arrow or with the MOB feature. However, nowhere in the manual can I find how to create a new waypoint by simply plugging in my own map coordinates which I take from a USGS map. With my old Magellan GPS unit, it was easy to do this. Can someone tell me how to do this with my Garmin? Thanks.
 
I usually do this by moving the pointer until the coordinates match and then pressing (I think) enter. (It has been quite a while since I have done it.) Not as efficient as entering the corrdinates, but good enough if you have only a few waypoints to enter. If I am entering a lot of waypoints, I use a computer.

Doug
 
Thanks, Doug. I have another question or two. Is Garmin's "Mapsource Topo" the best mapping software to use in conjunction with this GPS unit? I read that the map scale for their maps is only 1:100,000. Is this a large enough scale to make transfering waypoints accurate, or is it more accurate to simply take waypoints from a source such as TopoZone online, where you can get a much larger scale (1:10,000) to work with?
 
steppinwolf said:
Thanks, Doug. I have another question or two. Is Garmin's "Mapsource Topo" the best mapping software to use in conjunction with this GPS unit? I read that the map scale for their maps is only 1:100,000. Is this a large enough scale to make transfering waypoints accurate, or is it more accurate to simply take waypoints from a source such as TopoZone online, where you can get a much larger scale (1:10,000) to work with?

Oddly enough just today I was reviewing various mapping programs and came across this thread. It seems for the most part people are not happy with the Garmin program. Read all the thoughts then draw your own conclusion.

Having zero experience with it and based upon what I read my thought is you are best served not to spend the money and make your own as you suggested above.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...-1286873-9369457?_encoding=UTF8&s=electronics
 
steppinwolf said:
Thanks, Doug. I have another question or two. Is Garmin's "Mapsource Topo" the best mapping software to use in conjunction with this GPS unit? I read that the map scale for their maps is only 1:100,000. Is this a large enough scale to make transfering waypoints accurate, or is it more accurate to simply take waypoints from a source such as TopoZone online, where you can get a much larger scale (1:10,000) to work with?

If you are using it to load into the GPS you don't have a choice. You can only load mapsource products for the maps. If you are refering to waypoint info then you are probably better off using any 1:24000 mapping system. The general maps for Garmin mapsource are the 1:100000 maps but, in special areas like the AT and parks and forests like the Adirondacks and the WMNF you can get Mapsource at the 1:24000 scale.

Keith
 
AntlerPeak said:
Oddly enough just today I was reviewing various mapping programs and came across this thread. It seems for the most part people are not happy with the Garmin program. Read all the thoughts then draw your own conclusion.

Having zero experience with it and based upon what I read my thought is you are best served not to spend the money and make your own as you suggested above.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...-1286873-9369457?_encoding=UTF8&s=electronics


I have read some of the reviews and the only comment I will make is that people have a habit of blaming software when they have hardware issues. I have not had any issues with the software other than the 1:100000 maps leave something to be desired. That is the nature of the map, not the software. Also most trails are listed on the 1:24000 maps if they are actually listed on the government maps. Don't forget that most of these maps are 10 and many time more years old. Again, this isn't Garmins fault, it is the nature of the beast. If you know how to navigate with standard 1:100000 and 1:24000 USGS topos and know the pitfalls, then you should have no more problem if you are using Garmins Mapsource.


Keith
 
Keith, you noted the concern I had as well.

"the only comment I will make is that people have a habit of blaming software when they have hardware issues. I have not had any issues with the software other than the 1:100000 maps leave something to be desired. That is the nature of the map, not the software."

Knowing nothing about Garmin gps systems I was looking at map choices. It has been my experience that when people are disappointed with something, software, is an excellent example, they had unrealistic expectations. Therefore, I often discount many of the complaints.

It is a double edged sword though, because the product is not exactly cheap and there are so many people complaining about it, it raises questions about laying out the cash.

As you said the base maps are often ten years or more old and do not have all the updated info. Is it safe to assume using the Mapsource topos @ 1:24000 and importing way points for a planned trip from a computer program will give you an accurate and usable route on your gps?

Excuse the elementary questions but will simply loading the way points, ( not using Mapsource in the GPS) will still provide the basic resource to compliment the paper map you carry with you?

Thanks as I have never used one of these, still employing, map, compass, altimeter.
 
AntlerPeak, the link you provided with those reviews of the software was extremely helpful. At the present time, I'm not really interested in loading maps onto the GPS. What I am more interested in doing is loading accurate waypoints into it by using large scale maps, and for doing that there is no way I'm going to do it using MapSource's 1:100,000 scale. Thanks for that link.

SAR-EMT40 said:
If you are using it to load into the GPS you don't have a choice. You can only load mapsource products for the maps. If you are refering to waypoint info then you are probably better off using any 1:24000 mapping system. The general maps for Garmin mapsource are the 1:100000 maps but, in special areas like the AT and parks and forests like the Adirondacks and the WMNF you can get Mapsource at the 1:24000 scale.

Keith

SAR-EMT40, yes, I'm referring more to waypoint info rather than loading maps. If I have some waypoints, such as several listed on a wordpad, does the basic "Trip & Waypoint Manager" CD that comes with the unit allow me to type in the waypoint coordinates directly into the GPS unit? I don't need a MapSource product just to do that, do I? Thanks.
 
I just checked out the reviews from AntlerPeak's reference. Looks to me like some of the reviewers don't understand what they are trying to review. Others have noted that some of the reviewers don't know the difference between the data and the programs. And some of what they said was simply incorrect.

Just for the record, I own Garmin Topo 100K, Garmin Topo 24K (East), Garmin Metroguide (v4--which is routable on both computer and GPS, no longer available), and National Geographic TOPO! NE. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.

A general observation: the GPS screen is a small window on a large map. If you set the display scale to show small details, you lose the overall situation and conversely, if you set the scale to show the overall situation, it cannot display small details. IMO, the best compromise is to use it at a scale which shows details and use the paper map for the situational awareness. I found it very easy to transfer my location between the map and GPS by inspection.

Another comment: The 100K and 25K scale topo maps (from all manufacturers that I am aware of) are based upon data released by the USGS. So nobody's topos are more up-to-date than the USGS topos. (I have seen a few penciled notations added to NG TOPO! NE before scanning.)

* I used GT 100K for hiking (in a mapping Etrex Vista) for quite a while. (Note that most of the AMC White Mountain maps are at a 95K scale.) When based at home, I kept maps for my local mountains (the Whites) loaded. If I felt like it, I would put in a route with waypoints at the trailheads, junctions, and the summits using a computer. The GPS worked perfectly well either way. The 100K maps were fine for following trails, but I wouldn't plan a bushwack with them. They cover the entire country--not bad for $100.

* I occasionally used the GPS without the local maps loaded. The display was just a set of waypoints on a blank background. It was fine as long as I had a paper map and an appropriate set of waypoints loaded into the GPS. (This is the way that users of non-mapping GPSes operate.) One drawback of this mode is that if you wish to veer off your planned route, you may not have an appropriate set of waypoints to reference your location. You now have to transfer lat-lon (or equivalent) between the GPS and map to use the GPS.

* The Garmin 25K topos were a welcome addition (at least for the areas that they cover). The detail on these maps is essentially the same as the USGS 25K maps. (Of course, they are based upon USGS 25K data...) These are quite adequate for bushwacking, again with the caveat that you should have/need the paper 25K of the area.

* The NG TOPO! maps give you 100K and 25K scanned images of the USGS topos. Nice for planning and printing. You can also transfer waypoints, routes, and tracks.

* The Metroguide maps tend to be more up-to-date than the topos and have a lot more road detail. The routablility (with v4) is nice on the computer, but I give it mixed reviews when used on the road (in a GPSMAP 60cs)--it sometimes does unexpected things which can confuse a driver. And there are some subtle data errors that can cause some funny routes to be generated. Perhaps City Select is better, but I've not used it.

With or without the maps, it is easier to use the GPS for serious navigation if you use it with a computer to manipulate waypoints and routes.

Notes:
* The Garmin Topos are generated from USGS digital line graph (DLG) maps. (small data size, easily scalable, but some detail lost).
* The NG TOPO!s are based upon USGS commissioned scans of USGS paper topo maps (high quality images, not scaleable).
* The Magellan Topos are generated from digital elevation maps (DEM). Some of these maps are inferior to maps based upon the USGS DLG data.
* I haven't mentioned Maptech's Terrain Navigator. (I have no direct experience with it.) It appears to be similar to NG TOPO (some feel it is better).
* In general, if you want to load maps into a mapping GPS, you have to buy the maps from the same manufacturer. Most (virtually all?) consumer computer mapping products and most GPSes will talk NEMA--a standard communications protocol which will allow them to share waypoints, routes, and tracks, but not maps.
* A standard trick for running entirely from hard disk is to copy images of the CD-ROMs on the hard disk and install from there.
* Yes you can choose sets of maps to display on a Garmin GPS by product. (No need to do it map-by-map).
* And finally, self-selected review boards are dominated by those with strong feelings--frequently by those who are unhappy for some reason. The moderates seem to have less to say...

A personal field experience:
Took a trip out to Utah a few years ago with my new Vista. I was able to load in Garmin Topo 100K maps for the southern 1/3 of the state and parts of northern Arizona. No computer. Each evening, I loaded in waypoints and a route for the next day's drive/hike from the front panel. Slow, but it can be done. (I also had appropriate paper maps.) Worked very well. Was very useful for both driving (I was solo) and hiking.

A personal opinion (or two):
* I feel the mapping GPSes are worth the extra cost.
* Even though there is some overlap between the different map sets, I find all useful and tend to use them for different purposes where there is overlapping coverage.
* If you want to navigate by pre-GPS methods, all you have to do is turn it off and put it in your pack. (And you should know how to navigate without the GPS...)

Doug
 
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Steppinwolf---I hope I didn't step on your excellent post. Your question raised some of my own and I just jumped in.

Thanks Doug A big green square for you! I forgot to sign it, that was a big help.

I reviewed Garmin's web site and even downloaded the software manual. In a hurry I did not see the info that you pointed out. I noticed that National Geographic does not give you access to manuals, well if they do I did not find it. Delorme is also rather stingy with this type of info.

I don't own a gps as yet and when I select one I'd like to be armed with a basic and reasonable set of expectations.
 
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I have the Garmin 60CS and love it!! To enter coordinates you have from a paper map, just mark the current location and then highlight the coordinates on the screen and change them to the coordinates you want. I also use US Topo and it works well. I plan out routes and create waypoints on my PC and transfer them to my GPS. Most pre-existing trails on USA TOPO are fairly accurate,but some are not or missing entirely. I also use North American City Select for driving and have had good results. I also use Maptech Terrain Navigator, where I can draw My proposed route and waypoints from USGS maps on My PC and transfer it to My GPS. If you only use your GPS for waypoints and do not download maps onto it,your missing out on the best part of your GPS!!
 
AntlerPeak said:
I reviewed Garmin's web site and even downloaded the software manual. In a hurry I did not see the info that you pointed out. I noticed that National Geographic does not give you access to manuals, well if they do I did not find it. Delorme is also rather stingy with this type of info.
The Delorme topo maps are inferior to either the NG TOPO! or Navtech Terrain Navigator.

I don't own a gps as yet and when I select one I'd like to be armed with a basic and reasonable set of expectations.
I studied them for many months before I bought and waited for a decent mapping unit to become available (initially a Garmin Etrex Vista, now upgraded to a Garmin GPSMAP 60CS--happy with both). When you buy, you should also consider the quality of the maps that go with the unit. Garmin allows you to view the maps on their website, I think Magellan does also. GPSes are expensive and complicated but amazing and very useful devices. Once you have one, expect to spend some time playing with it to get used to how it works. (Lost in a white-out with howling wind and rain is not the time to learn...) They are also not perfect--they can fail (sometimes due to operator error), the batteries can run down, the satellite signals can be blocked, and occasionally they can give you a bad location fix. But once you learn to use it properly (in conjunction with the traditional methods of navigation), I think you will find it to be a useful piece of gear.

A good source of info is usenet news: sci.geo.satellite-nav http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.geo.satellite-nav?hl=en (A direct usenet newsreader is a better interface than Google.) There are some real experts on this forum. (I learned much of what I know about GPS from here.) There are also a number of good websites: one of the best is http://www.gpsinformation.net.

Doug
 
steppinwolf said:
SAR-EMT40, yes, I'm referring more to waypoint info rather than loading maps. If I have some waypoints, such as several listed on a wordpad, does the basic "Trip & Waypoint Manager" CD that comes with the unit allow me to type in the waypoint coordinates directly into the GPS unit? I don't need a MapSource product just to do that, do I? Thanks.
Well, I just did my own homework on this one and got brave and downloaded the "Trip & Waypoint Manager" CD that comes with the unit. Then I hooked up the GPS unit to the computer, opened the new software up on the computer, typed some waypoints into the program, hit the transfer button, then checked my GPS to see if they really got transferred, and wadda ya know...they were there! BTW, I got these first experimental waypoints online from TopoZone.com.

AntlerPeak said:
Excuse the elementary questions but will simply loading the way points, ( not using Mapsource in the GPS) will still provide the basic resource to compliment the paper map you carry with you?

Thanks as I have never used one of these, still employing, map, compass, altimeter.
Yeah, for sure. With my old Magellan, which I couldn't set up with a computer, I simply copied the waypoints from any reliable source such as USGS paper topo maps or other mapping software I had. I also used TopoZone.com for getting waypoints. Doing it that way, though, was much more time consuming than doing it with a PC compatable unit, where you can simply type in the coordinates onto your PC and then transfer them to the unit, which I just learned how to do today.

AntlerPeak said:
Steppinwolf---I hope I didn't step on your excellent post. Your question raised some of my own and I just jumped in.
Not at all. I enjoyed and appreciated yours and everyone's input. The link to those reviews you provided was very helpful :)
 
steppinwolf said:
Doing it that way, though, was much more time consuming than doing it with a PC compatable unit, where you can simply type in the coordinates onto your PC and then transfer them to the unit, which I just learned how to do today.
It is even easier with the digital mapping software. You just click on the map locations where you want to place waypoints. Or click on a sequence of map locations to create a route. Then you transfer the waypoints and routes to the GPS. You never need to touch the numbers themselves--the computer does it for you.

You can also read/write waypoints and routes from/to a file.

There is a new vendor-independent file format called GPX which is entirely text. Presumably one could write such a file with a text editor if one wishes (and is willing to learn the format).

Doug
 
DougPaul said:
It is even easier with the digital mapping software. You just click on the map locations where you want to place waypoints. Or click on a sequence of map locations to create a route. Then you transfer the waypoints and routes to the GPS. You never need to touch the numbers themselves--the computer does it for you.

Doug

That does sound nice. That's only with Garmin's MapSource, isn't it, or can you do that with other mapping software? And do any of Garmin's 1:24,000 map programs cover the Adirondacks?

Doug, I wish you were my next door neighbor. Man, would I ever be tapping your brain and having you walk me through some of this stuff! :D
 
steppinwolf said:
That does sound nice. That's only with Garmin's MapSource, isn't it, or can you do that with other mapping software? And do any of Garmin's 1:24,000 map programs cover the Adirondacks?
While I normally exchange waypoints and routes with Garmin Mapsource (both 100K and 24K), I believe NG TOPO! and Maptech Terrain Navigator can do the same. (I think Delorme can also, but I have never checked.) Pretty much any GPS that talks NMEA can communicate with any digital mapping software that talks NMEA. (Most GPSes and software from their manufacturers also talk a priopriatary mode--some of which is publically documented (and thus available to other manufacturers) and some of which is not documented. Loading maps into a GPS is not covered by NMEA and therefore can generally only be done using the manufacturer's priopriatary mode (and software).

NMEA=National Marine Electronics Association, a group which issues standards for marine electronics interfaces. (BTW, the NMEA mode is RS-232 only.)

Yes, Garmin Topo 24K East covers the DAKs plus the Whites, the AT, and other places. A detailed list of areas covered is on the Garmin website.

My suggestion would be to get the 100K first for its general coverage and then if you want more detailed maps of selected areas, get the 24K. (As noted earlier, I have and like both. I have segements from 100K, 24K, and Metroguide v4 loaded in my GPS right now (my standard load for local driving and hiking).).

Doug, I wish you were my next door neighbor. Man, would I ever be tapping your brain and having you walk me through some of this stuff! :D
Be careful--I might have some bad habits too... :)

Doug
 
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