Agreed. I suspect it is really dangerous for white people too.
Unweighted numbers are deceptive.
Tuckermans Ravine Trail Fatality
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Agreed. I suspect it is really dangerous for white people too.
Unweighted numbers are deceptive.
Raven
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If would be interesting to see if the percentages of hiking related injuries and deaths from each state matched the percentages of visitors per state or if there are statistical differences by state. Not sure what kind of conclusions could be drawn but my suspicion is that the further one drives the less easily one turns back from a summit (in general, there are of course exceptions). Being fortunate enough to find myself in the mountains frequently, I don't hesitate to come back another day if conditons are dangerous. However, if this was my one chance to summit Mount Washington and I had taken a plane to NH to do it....I might not turn around quite so easily.
I recall a three mile unanticipated trail run from the summit of Pike's Peak when we were chased off by afternoon lightning storms which we knew were likely of course. We went up anyway.
Are Rhode Islanders especially careful, or are there just so few of them that they don't make the above list? Mass has roughly half of New England's population and a little less than half of the recent deaths cited by natron. (whose list also includes New York) I suspect there's a lot more men on the list than women. "That's right, the women are smarter!"
ctsparrow
New member
I have actually never climbed the rock pile using T's. I have gone into the snow bowl annually, so I've gone that far, but I've always done the Presi's either as a full ridge trip, or have come up the other side via Ammo, Valley Way etc. I had to descend once to the P Notch side- for the shuttle, with a FULL backpack and my son age 11 at the time. I deliberately decided to avoid T's due to our backpacks and his age even though he was nearly done with his NH48 at the time. We descended Lions Head simply due to the reputation of T's. I have always chosen to avoid it because most people that I have talked to who have never hiked yet decided to make a trip to climb Mt Washington, all choose Tuckermans. Its reputation of being a clogged highway of the inexperienced and the unprepared has always kept me elsewhere.
My prayers to the young mans family and friends.
ctsparrow
My prayers to the young mans family and friends.
ctsparrow
Just from my vantage point, working where I do, we see so many people in this late summer/early fall time frame that just don't comprehend the topography and relation to daylight in Pinkham Notch, especially the Tucks, Huntingtons, Madison Gulf headwalls.
Obs freely gives the time of sunset, but that isn't truly useful on the East / Pinkham side. Unfortunately, if you are hiking on the East side within Pinkham Notch, sunset is when the sun drops behind the peak of the mountain. Once that happens, it gets dark FAST, because once in the shadow of the peak, even though the sky overhead may still say < daylight> , you WILL be in the dark.
Big props (and condolences, too) to those who tried so hard for a better outcome for Luc. It wasn't a survivable fall, according to those who tried to make it so. Sad and acute sorrow for his friends and family, and for all who knew him.
Breeze
Obs freely gives the time of sunset, but that isn't truly useful on the East / Pinkham side. Unfortunately, if you are hiking on the East side within Pinkham Notch, sunset is when the sun drops behind the peak of the mountain. Once that happens, it gets dark FAST, because once in the shadow of the peak, even though the sky overhead may still say < daylight> , you WILL be in the dark.
Big props (and condolences, too) to those who tried so hard for a better outcome for Luc. It wasn't a survivable fall, according to those who tried to make it so. Sad and acute sorrow for his friends and family, and for all who knew him.
Breeze
billski
Member
Agreed. I suspect it is really dangerous for white people too.
Unweighted numbers are deceptive.
Well, if we want to get really non-PC, I'd offer that the overwhelming number of deaths involve men. I only have anecdotal info; every news story I've ever read involved a male. Now, on the injured list, I suspect it's a more evenly divided. Anybody can slip or fall on a trail, for example.
billski
Member
I have a target of being out of the woods by 5pm in the autumn. I've hiked out in the dark on some occasions and would rather not do that. The margin of error is too small. I will turn around if I don't believe I can make it out of the woods by 5. I don't hike past Halloween, but if I did, I'd probably be out at 4pm in November. And I'm not just talking about the Presi's.
The summer makes it a joy to stay on trail until about 6pm. However, the mosquitoes are usually so bad that I'm a bloody mess, so avoid staying out that late.
billski
Member
What is your vantage point and where do you work?
billski
Member
Mt. Lafayette has to be right up there in terms of injuries and search/rescue operations. Another damned mountain too close to the road/too convenient.
natron
New member
yes and no..
Just because half of the population in new england is in mass doesn't mean half of mt.washington's use is from mass. I have over 100+ days hiking in the prezzis year round, 80+ for snowboarding.. from my parking lot observations, rarely are 40% of the cars from mass, big contingent from NH,ME, VT and small contingent of other;QC,CT,RI,NY,NJ,PA It's impossible to know for sure the % of fatalities vs by users of the mt. by state. Also there is the factor if you do a longer drive for something, you're more apt to stick with the plan/goal. I don't believe where you live makes you a safer traveler, it's about doing research,gaining experience, and making good decisions.
Just because half of the population in new england is in mass doesn't mean half of mt.washington's use is from mass. I have over 100+ days hiking in the prezzis year round, 80+ for snowboarding.. from my parking lot observations, rarely are 40% of the cars from mass, big contingent from NH,ME, VT and small contingent of other;QC,CT,RI,NY,NJ,PA It's impossible to know for sure the % of fatalities vs by users of the mt. by state. Also there is the factor if you do a longer drive for something, you're more apt to stick with the plan/goal. I don't believe where you live makes you a safer traveler, it's about doing research,gaining experience, and making good decisions.
Driver8
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I went up and down W twice in 2012, up Jewell and AT and down AT and Ammo on 6/17 and up Tucks and down Lion Head five weeks later. I also attempted W via Boott Spur, turning back just above Split Rock on 7/19/11. Of those routes, I found Tucks second least rugged only to the relatively gentle Jewell. I think TRT is much clearer, most likely, after the USFS crews did some heavy work on it two years ago. I found Lion Head quite a bit rougher than TRT and wished I had descended the way I climbed.
Tucks does get heavy traffic, but having met a lot of them on my ascent, I found the great preponderance of them to be smart, fit, well geared and prepared. There will always be a few errant souls, some of whom will get seriously hurt or worse, but it's a great trail, breathtakingly beautiful, and very much worth the trip. One of the two or three prettiest hikes I've done.
I'm sorry this young man perished, but I've been a few steps off trail there near the stream above the headwall cliffs, almost certainly within 50 feet of where he fell - I proceeded quite cautiously, I'd add - and it would almost have taken effort on my part to take a big fall. I was cautious even so, but falling in summer/early fall conditions there as he did would mean a lack of caution or really bad luck.
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Kevin Rooney
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I don't think a license plate analysis of winter snowboarders necessarily correlates with summer hikers. Two quite different crowds.
Also - aren't most of the fatalities of late occurring during the warmer months?
Also, a lot of people car pool, so a car with NH plates might actually be mostly people from another state. Also, I used to live in NH but now live near Boston. What does that make me? I think the only thing we can really judge on is experience and preparedness.
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