Leash Law in the Adirondacks.

Whoops! I was about to post and something went horribly wrong. I wonder if maybe my previous attempt will end up here anyway....

Well, I'm wondering about the leash laws in the Adirondacks. I understand why they exist. But every once in a while I like to let the pup run. I know that the rules are enforced in the area around Marcy Dam. I wonder though, can I let him go free on Big Slide? Giant? Hurricane? Cascade? After all, he is a VERY good dog.....

From this web site(NYS DEC) the following regulations apply:

In the Eastern High Peaks Zone, no person shall fail to leash pets on trails, at primitive tent sites, at lean-to sites, at elevations above 4,000 feet, or at other areas where the public congregates

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There's more but that about covers it.

The Eastern High Peaks are "that portion of the High Peaks Wilderness Area located to the east of the ridge line immediately west of the Indian Pass Trail" from the same web site.

So in English, I guess it means that dogs(pets) must be on leash at all times in the area between Indian Pass and the AMR property.

Like rdl said - as long as you are below 4,000 feet and not near a campsite, lean-to, or area like Marcy Dam - your dog dosen't have to be leashed. Also, I don't think dogs are allowed at all in the AMR. So - let him run free on trail - you should be fine.

peace,
Oysterhead

"In the Eastern High Peaks Zone, no person shall fail to leash pets on trails..."

Hmmm.... It *says* that you have to keep your dog leashed on trails, so that seems to *mean* that you have to keep your dog leashed on trails. I dunno, I've only been readin' an' writin' English for fifty-odd years, but that's what I get out of it ;o)

Hikers with dogs are definitely not permitted on AMR property,

porky pine

wow...

Funny how I totaly misread that. Must have been way more wiped last night then I thought I was. Sorry boom - no unleashed dogs allowed.

peace,
Oysterhead

The rules are SLIGHTLY different on Giant (Which is not in the High Peaks). The rules for Giant state, "All pets, except for hunting dogs in the appropriate season under the control of a licensed hunter will be required by regulation to be leashed at campsites and lean-tos, elevations above 4,000 ft, or at areas where the public has congregated."

Note that "on trails" has been left out. Will this cause confusion? (different rules on each side of Rt 73). In general, the DEC has less restrictive rules in lighter used areas, which is probably good, but will things change to avoid confusion?

Stepping out on thin ice . . .

Well, that bit of ambiguity caused by subtle differences between leash rules for the Adirondack Eastern High Peaks and the Giant area really should not be a problem for conscientious people who are willing and ready to take real responsibility for and control over their pets.

I observe that leashes are good things, whether strictly required or not. Good for Rover’s owner, good for people whom Rover & Company meet while hiking, and good for Rover him/her/it/self. We probably would have little need for leash rules or laws, and doggies would be welcome in a lot more places had more people used leashes in the past. Water over the dam now, but something to contemplate as a lesson for the future.

(I’m a dog owner and dog lover and I hike with my dog.)

Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn’t have leash laws for children, too . . . but that’s another topic altogether.

G.

dogs and children

I too am a dog owner and lover and hiker with a dog. But i am terribly conflicted. Having to leash my dog on the trail certainly diminishes the enjoyment for me and her. Not a lot, but some, and i would prefer to let her run. BUT, i have been camping too many times - ironically at the top of Roaring Brook Falls twice - when i was literally assaulted by free running -friendly(overly) - but still unleashed dogs. While cooking on my camp stove, they came thru and knocked over the stove, spilling the water i was boiling, and generally disrupting the campsite. Not that i expected to have a quiet wilderness experience in a campsite near a popular waterfall. But i didn't expect or appreciate THAT.

Also, when hiking and a dog runs up from the other direction owners trailing, one has no idea of the dogs intent, or temperment. It can be a little nerve racking. So i ALWAYS leash my dog. Wouldn't have it any other way. My buddy is a rafting guide in Moab Utah. He took his Blue Healer hiking out there, and the dog ran ahead, tried to hop up a boulder, and ended up with a spiral fracture in one of his rear legs. Freak thing, but Blue Dog taught me a lesson - it is good for the dogs safety too.

Really no point here, just my experience/opinion. Leash your dogs.

RVT

These laws are enforced!

I was ticketed almost two years ago for having my dog off leash in the High Peaks. The ranger was very friendly about it but said he had to give me a ticket. It cost me $15. It was a weekday in March and the ranger (on skis) was the only person I had seen that day. I knew the rule and that I was breaking it but I also know my dog and didn't think I would see many people. His leash was in my pocket. I usually only take him when I don't expect crowds and always leash him when I come upon others. He has never had a conflict on the trails and has about 38 high peaks to his credit. Not to mention most of the Catskill 35 and about 20 of the NH48. He stays right next to me but I don't think it is as fun for either of us when he can't at least spend part of the day off leash. I also think that it can be just as unsafe to have him on leash if one of us falls. I don't bring him to the high peaks much now as it is not worth it to keep him leashed all day.

Bring your dog to the Catskills and enjoy yourself. Tooo many rules up north!
I've met dozens of dogs on the trails and never had a problem, and never heard a complaint, although some folks would complain if you hung them with a brand new rope.
Hiking with a dog on a leash in mountainous terrain is dangerous for the dog and the owner.
Of course it should go without saying that some dogs are not trained for hiking and should be left home. I've had dogs that did well on the trail and dogs that don't mind me, like the one I have now. I love her dearly, but don't think I'll ever get her out on the trail because she doesn't mind me well enough.
My 2 centavos.
Tom

Yeah right...good doggy, until it bites someone, or shits on the trail, or in a stream. There are very very good reasons dogowners MUST be required to keep their pets on a leash; those are only two. If ppl like you cant abide by the rules, then why not cut down trees and burn them? Well gee whiz, I was cold! Or how about postholing up a ski or snowshoe winter trail, cause yur too cheap to rent or buy snowshoes...and too lousy a skiier. Hey, let's bring our battery powered boomboxes and play Def Lepperd all night long. See boombloom, this is why there are RULES. And they apply to every dog, even the so-called "good" ones. Get a leash and USE it!! Us petless hikers demand it.

Re: dogs and children

rtrimarc said:

I too am a dog owner and lover and hiker with a dog. But i am terribly conflicted.

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I know what you mean, even though I'm not a dog owner.

My son had a great example in filling out his questionaire for the 46ers.... (Note that this was written by a 10 year old) When asked his favorite and least fovorite, he listed Gothics as his least favorite. As he neared the summit, he was chased by a (not friendly) dog. He spent his time on the summit crying. His favorite summit was Allen. This because there was a nice friendly dog (unleashed) on the summit.

The fact taht a 10 year old listed a dog as what made his favorite and least favorite trip, says a lot of the conflict.

Yes, a very conflicting topic.

But "alone", if you want to flame like that go somewhere else. Thoughful people are interested in having a thoughtful dialogue on this issue. Take your flames elsewhere. Know the rules before you cite them. Dogs are permitted leashless in many areas of the Daks, Cats, Apps. and Whites.

Pete, great story. Like people, good and bad dogs abound (often a reflection of the owner, as the saying goes). On balance most I've come across are great.

And for what it's worth my dog's a 34'er and she's leashed (reluctantly) where the rules dictate such. (And left at home when hiking in restricted areas like the AMR-no cheating here.)That's why I try to climb where the leash laws don't apply. We both enjoy it much more and it's safer than having here strangled (which has occured a few times).

Folks, almost every other dogs-hiking thread I've seen eventually takes a hard turn for the worst. Lets keep this discussion civil.
Fred, you and I usually agree on things. In years of leading trips, I've seen enough bad dog and dog-owner behavior to make me want to keep my dogs leashed, regardless of the diminished fun for all.
As to the Catskills, a friend and were nearing the last drop to the car from Wittenberg this Fall. Smiling couple coming up late in the day had a HUGE unleased dog. I stepped aside to let them pass, and in doing so, my hiking pole came up. The dog thought I intended to do harm to it, and charged me, growling with teeth bared. I've owned enough dogs to know when they mean business. It was only my putting the business end of the pole between the dog's muzzle and my friend and I that kept us from getting chomped. As to the dog's owners, a weak "here Fido" as they snagged the collar, looking irritated, and made my friend and walk off the trail to avoid the dog. An apology would have been nice.

flames?
The reference to lighting a fire was an example of rule-breaking.
I have as much right as you to reply and when I want to, I will! The choice of words I use is up to me not you, and if you dont like what youre reading, dont read it! So, why dont YOU keep YOUR opinions to yourself there bubba.

As far as the areas of the 'Dacks where poochy is allowed untethered, thats fine with me. I too have a dog, but I keep him home so as to NOT bother or otherwise disturb other hikers. The word for this bubba is CONSIDERATION, something some pet owner's have omitted from their vocabulary while hiking. My dog would probably not harm anyone, but since we are humans and not canines, it is IMPOSSIBLE for ANYONE to know what their dog is going to do.

The mere sight of a dog running whilly-nilly towards someone is enough to freak some ppl out. Do what we must do more of before you spout off again..............THINK ABOUT IT.

alone said:

The word for this bubba is CONSIDERATION ...

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I believe CONSIDERATION also relates to forums.

My dogs had such fun hiking unleashed in the Catskills today!

To "Alone": If you can't say something nicely...

Your opinions would get much greater respect if they didn't sound so insulting.

to leash or not to leash

this thread reminds me of the twists & turns the discussion on postholing took. i think all these conflicts could easily be resolved if:
1. Hikers: instead of thinking (or not) of what WE want to do - take a minute to think about whether or not OUR choices are going to cause problems or conflicts with others you'll be sharing your day with. Really, do these things have to be such problems? Isn't the whole point of "escaping" to the mountains to get away from the petty bs? I know I don't want to come out of the woods more stressed than when I went in - do you? I don't think so. So come on people -- just use some common sense, courtesy & respect - after all we have to share these mountains like it or not.
2. Rangers/ADK etc: I do believe with more & more people hiking, there needs to be more education on the rules & laws. A suggestion would be for rangers to be out & about more, not just around the Adk lodge but randomly visiting other sites too. (I have never seen a ranger anywhere except around Marcy) I did some hiking in Vermont & there were rangers around to educate folks on respecting the fragile environment, leash laws, etc. They weren't overbearing or anxious to fine people - I actually thought they were really cool & helpful. I don't think, we as hikers should be having to police the trails that's not what we are there for - but is sure seems to be the direction things are going. (even at the sign in sites there's little or nothing posted on trail rules)

What's the deal with the rangers anyway? Do they need more Volunteers? Why aren't they out more. You'd think with all the complaints posted this winter about postholing for example they'd jump at the chance to get out there and try to make some changes or some money. Even a few warnings I'm sure would make a difference.
Oh well....

I just found my first use for the ignore list

If you click on "user CP" and "ignore list "you can automatically delete posts from people whose opinion you do not value.

You will never see their posts again.

Hence the name "Alone"

Re: dogs and children

Thank you for an insightful post. Too many times, the debate on dogs is strictly black and white. You are either a dog lover, and dogs have the same rights to the trail as any other breathing creature; or you are a dog hater, and wish all canines to be banished from the trail. It's nice to see a dog owner who can see it from both sides.

If people always had control of their dogs, then leashes could be optional. But I've personally had several occasions where a dog has misbehaved (growled, left a little dog-snot on my sandwich, jumped up one me, etc.), and the owner simply said to me, "Hmmmm, he's never done THAT before." Perhaps the most offensive is when a dog is left to run amuck on a summit, peeing on alpine vegetation, treading on dangerous ledges, and generally becoming the focus of the summit experience, as I hear the owner fruitlessly yelling, "Here, boy. C'mon, Snaps. Come back here."

The problem is this: There are many dogs that would be perfectly fine on the trail with no leash whatsoever. They "know" how to act, and their owners know this. So in reality, these owners are perfectly justified in keeping the dog unleashed. However, there are a lot of folks who *think* that their dog behaves fine, when in reality, the pup can use a bit more training or experience. So as a result, they have to make universal laws to cover for the inconsiderate dog owners, and these rules unfortunately hurt the considerate ones.

It's a tough debate, but these universal laws also apply to other backpacking restrictions (campsite rules come to mind). You have to set a standard for those who are not courteous to do so on their own.

Now, if we can only set up a rule for cell phones on the summit. If I hear "Guess where I'm calling from" one more time, I'm gonna smash a Motorola. I promise you.

rtrimarc said:

I too am a dog owner and lover and hiker with a dog. But i am terribly conflicted. Having to leash my dog on the trail certainly diminishes the enjoyment for me and her. Not a lot, but some, and i would prefer to let her run. BUT, i have been camping too many times - ironically at the top of Roaring Brook Falls twice - when i was literally assaulted by free running -friendly(overly) - but still unleashed dogs. While cooking on my camp stove, they came thru and knocked over the stove, spilling the water i was boiling, and generally disrupting the campsite. Not that i expected to have a quiet wilderness experience in a campsite near a popular waterfall. But i didn't expect or appreciate THAT.

Also, when hiking and a dog runs up from the other direction owners trailing, one has no idea of the dogs intent, or temperment. It can be a little nerve racking. So i ALWAYS leash my dog. Wouldn't have it any other way. My buddy is a rafting guide in Moab Utah. He took his Blue Healer hiking out there, and the dog ran ahead, tried to hop up a boulder, and ended up with a spiral fracture in one of his rear legs. Freak thing, but Blue Dog taught me a lesson - it is good for the dogs safety too.

Really no point here, just my experience/opinion. Leash your dogs.

RVT

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