GMRS 2 way radios

I've read a few posts about 2 way radios, but I was wondering if anyone has a specific model to recommend. My husband and I have a pair of FRS motorolas,which aren't very impressive. We realize that terrain is a factor, but would like the best range that we can get. We're willing to get a license for GMRS if they are really better. Obviously I don't know much about 2 way radios and any help would be appreciated.

I'm a Motorola bigot. Friends and I use them skiing to stay in touch and many times, I have to repeat what someone standing next to me is saying for their radio (Cobra, Midland, Kenwood, etc) is not being picked up by the other party.

I have no specific model to recommend, other than getting one with NOAA channels (which come in quite poorly compared to the GMRS performance). If you get the rechargeable ones, charge them a long time (> 20 hours) the first time. I have T series Motorolas (T6500s I think) and they last about 12 hours between recharges.

FRS/GMRS radios tend to be line-of-sight and the signals are attenuated by foliage. You can improve your range by moving to a high point if you cannot contact the other party from your current location.

The dual FRS/GMRS radios will gain you nothing by using them for GMRS. I haven't looked at GMRS-only radios (or the regs) but they might be able to run higher power.

If you want range, a good method might be to get a Ham license* and use repeaters where available. (There are about 5 2M repeaters around the Whites. Don't know about coverage in the DAKS.) Typical 2M HTs (HT=hand-held transceiver) run up to 5 watts and can use better antennas than FRS.

* Both of you will need to get licenses.

The following search will bring up 26 threads on the topic: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=h...itesearch=www.vftt.org&as_rights=&safe=images

Doug
WB2QJE

jbreen said:

I'm a Motorola bigot. Friends and I use them skiing to stay in touch and many times, I have to repeat what someone standing next to me is saying for their radio (Cobra, Midland, Kenwood, etc) is not being picked up by the other party.

Click to expand...

I have a pair of very small Uniden units (~3 in long including the antenna) and a pair of Motorola Talk-abouts. Side-by-side comparisons have shown very similar performance.

I have no specific model to recommend, other than getting one with NOAA channels (which come in quite poorly compared to the GMRS performance). If you get the rechargeable ones, charge them a long time (> 20 hours) the first time. I have T series Motorolas (T6500s I think) and they last about 12 hours between recharges.

Click to expand...

I would suggest that you get a model that uses AA or AAA batteries. You can then use alkalines, NiMH recharables, or lithiums. Carrying spares is also very easy.

Doug

Thanks. I'm reading about Midlands and Cobras. They seem to have the best customer reviews so far.

The Midlands, which I have, despite being a dual FRS/GMRS radio *WILL* gain you when used for GMRS. Their FRS transmissions are limited to 0.5 watts but at the cost of battery life you can bump GMRS transmissions up to 5 watts.

It still requires line-of-sight, but you might get lucky and have a GMRS repeater nearby. Read more about them at http://www.g-m-r-s.org/inside/repeaters.htm

I'm getting more confused, the more I read. I just read that for outdoor use VHF is better than UHF. But, when I look up VHF they seem to be mostly marine radios. I'm not even sure I know what the difference is. The Midland GXT850 has good reviews, and I was almost ready to get those, but this model looks to be UHF.
This is getting more complicated than it should be, for a couple of hikers who like simplicity. My husband is practically a luddite! Any advice on this ?

VHF is also line-of-sight, although not as easily affected by obstacles as UHF. (I'm pretty sure) use is licensed for / restricted to marine environments.

ICOM is the undisputed leader in marine VHF radios. Almost all serious sportfishermen and commercial boats run ICOMs.

HTH,
Tim

VHF will give you longer range than UHF, all else being equal. It is also less affected by foliage and is better at diffracting around obstacles. In either case, you will get the best range if you have a line-of-sight path.

ICOM may be the leader in consumer marine VHF radios, but that does not extend to Ham radios. (There are 3 major and several minor brands of Ham radios.)

Marine radios are not appropriate or legal for hiking use. Forget about them (in this context).

The practical (and legal) choices for a hiker are FRS, GMRS (license required), Ham (license required), or CB. FRS and GMRS (~480MHz) are UHF, Ham includes a wide range of frequency bands (2M is probably most practical for this use--144MHz (VHF)), and CB (28MHz) is HF.
HF=high frequency (3-30MHz)
VHF=very high frequency (30-300MHz)
UHF=ultra high frequency (300-3000MHz)
MHz=mega Hertz=million cycles per second

CB might be usable, but FRS/GMRS is likely to be better for hiking. CB also tends to be a zoo and interference is much more likely.

Just because GMRS repeaters exist doesn't mean that you have permission to use them. Ham repeaters are publicly listed and most are open for pubic use.

My guess is that most FRS radios have equivalent performance across brands (for the same power outputs)--the biggest difference is most likely in the bells and whistles.


IMO, if you are serious about wanting radio communication, get Ham licenses and HTs.

Doug

Thanks again. That really helps. I'm back to thinking about the Midland GXT850, and getting the license to use GMRS.

I have Unidens and no complaints. I like the NOAA weather alert feature.

How is the range with the Unidens? What model do you have? I'm rethinking the Midland GXT 850, because I've read that they are complicated to use. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles, just good radios with the longest range.

Skennenden said:

How is the range with the Unidens? What model do you have? I'm rethinking the Midland GXT 850, because I've read that they are complicated to use. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles, just good radios with the longest range.

Click to expand...

The biggest differences in range between models will be due to higher transmitter power and better antennas. (Better antennas are generally bigger--the antenna on an HT is a compromise between performance and convenience.)

In an ideal free space scenario (approximated by line-of-sight) increasing the power by a factor of 10 (eg .5W to 5W) will increase the range by a factor of 3. In practice, it may or may not make the difference whether you can get over an intervening hill.

One other point: if you choose FRS/GMRS, they will only be useful for talking within your group--don't expect them to be useful for initiating a rescue. (A cell phone is the best tool here, followed by a Ham radio.)

Doug

Skennenden said:

How is the range with the Unidens? What model do you have? I'm rethinking the Midland GXT 850, because I've read that they are complicated to use. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles, just good radios with the longest range.

Click to expand...

I think the range they quoted was maybe 4-6 miles compared with perhaps 2 miles for FRS. I would take that with a grain of salt since trees, terrain etc. can dramatically effect range.

My Unidens operate normally in the FRS power output except when a booster button is pushed for greater power. The greater power should only be used on certain frequencies and I expect good walkie talkies have that programmed in.

I don't find them terribly complicated to operate though I do keep a crib sheet with each device. It can be a bit complicated for someone who is initially unfamiliar with the equipment or with protocol so the crib sheet instructs the user on which channel (frequency) to monitor and call on and which channel to shift to after establishing communications ... as well as a back up channel if there is traffic on the first choice. My crib sheet also reminds the user when to depress the talk button and when to let up on it ... I have known myself to overlook that fundamental ...

Fortunately, I've never had to use them in an emergency between groups but aside from a little chit chat, I do like having that NOAA wx alert built in if we're out for an extended time. Another features include automatic scanning which may be most useful for eavesdropping on the conversations of others

I paid about $50 for the pair about four years ago.

Stan said:

I think the range they quoted was maybe 4-6 miles compared with perhaps 2 miles for FRS. I would take that with a grain of salt since trees, terrain etc. can dramatically effect range.

Click to expand...

A friend and I tested a pair FRS radios and got .5 mi in a light industrial area with trees between plots (along the NW side of Hartwell Ave in Lexington MA). In the woods, you would be lucky to get .25 mi unless you were working from high-spot to high-spot*. Similarly you'd be lucky to get .5 mi in the woods with a 5 watt GMRS radio.

* consistent with my experience using them in the woods.

Doug

Maybe I should just keep the ones we have. We have a pair of Motorola T5200, FRS. They actually work quite well. We often get a mile or so in the woods near our home. Not as good up north at our cabin. My husband went for a road walk and called me over 2 miles from home and it was scratchy, but I could hear him. We live on top of a hill. I don't want to buy new radios with GMRS and get a license, if it won't be much of an improvement. You've given me a lot to think about. I wish I could try some out first. I just assumed that the GMRS would have to better than my older FRS radios.

DougPaul said:

(A cell phone is the best tool here, followed by a Ham radio.)

Click to expand...

Doug, do you know if any of the mountain repeaters (particularly the Mt. Washington one) have emergency autopatch? (de N9RUJ)

jniehof said:

Doug, do you know if any of the mountain repeaters (particularly the Mt. Washington one) have emergency autopatch? (de N9RUJ)

Click to expand...

According to the Repeater Directory, Whitefield seems to be the only one.

Doug

GMRS definitely improves over FRS...

But as noted here, still has line-of-sight limitations. We've had two or three pair of FRS radios (Cobra, Uniden I think), which we replaced last summer with Motorola Talkabout GMRS units from REI (about $40/pair on sale).

Overall, I would say the Talkabout quality is better than our earlier radios (clearer sound, slightly louder, good feature set), and there is no question that, in GMRS mode, we get more range. With FRS, reception was sketchy to non-existent from the summit of Mt Tecumseh to the town of Waterville (maybe 1.5 miles ACF?). In GMRS mode, provided you have a clear line of sight, the signal comes through loud-and-clear. In places where you have woods or other obstructions, the range is far less than advertised, but still proportionally better than FRS.

Our Talkabouts have removable/rechargable NiMH battery packs (size and shape of three AAA batteries, so you can swap them if they die), which seem to last all day with a moderate number of calls on GMRS mode in warm weather, but are typically sucking wind after about 5 to 6 hours in winter temps.

DrewKnight said:

But as noted here, still has line-of-sight limitations. We've had two or three pair of FRS radios (Cobra, Uniden I think), which we replaced last summer with Motorola Talkabout GMRS units from REI (about $40/pair on sale).

Overall, I would say the Talkabout quality is better than our earlier radios (clearer sound, slightly louder, good feature set), and there is no question that, in GMRS mode, we get more range. With FRS, reception was sketchy to non-existent from the summit of Mt Tecumseh to the town of Waterville (maybe 1.5 miles ACF?). In GMRS mode, provided you have a clear line of sight, the signal comes through loud-and-clear. In places where you have woods or other obstructions, the range is far less than advertised, but still proportionally better than FRS.

Click to expand...

The only technical difference between FRS and GMRS modes is the allowable transmitter power*. If your radios use the same power in both modes, you should see the same performance.

* And, of course, GMRS requires a license.

You do not give a model number. The REI website suggests that you might be using the FV700R, which is .5W for FRS and 2W for GMRS.

Doug