Am i the only person who is stuff sack challenged?

In order to start doing some short backpacking trips this year I purchased all of my equipment. Specifically, my tent and sleeping bag came in stuff sacks that seemed to have lots of extra room in them. To make sure all was well, I took out the equipment to "set it up". When I tried to put it back in the sacks, it was like trying to shove an elephant into a VW Beetle. Eventually got the stuff in, but man, I must be doing something wrong. Guess thats why the wife folds the laundy...

I found this to be universally the case with stuff sacks. I just assume I have to replace the sack a bag or tent come with. Especially with tents where I pack the pole separate from the tent.

Early on in buying gear an EMS salesperson explained that the stuff sacks are sized to make things look small on the shelves therefore more appealing.

It also makes them rock hard cylinders that don't pack well.

Gee I dunno guys, I rarely have stuff sack problems except when the gear is wet or frozen.
With tents, I have found that you must learn the proper method to fold the tent and make sure all the air is out of it as you roll it. With sleeping bags, you need to put a lot of pressure on the bag as you roll. This can be extremely tough on the hands when its 10 below. I love having the lower section of my back as a 'stuff sack'. Now I just shove the bag in the with a circular lay, and it fits like a charm. No more rolling and tying. I never have used the original stuff sack with sleeping bags I purchased because A) they are not waterproof enough, and 2) they are usually not made out of a durable enough material to withstand the abuses of the trail.
I guess milage varies with these things.
Tom

I was under the impression that you didn't want to fold the tent, that the constant folding would cause undue stress on the fabric. I just stuff my tent into my pack without a stuff sack (unless it's wet, then I stuff it in a garbage bag that I have put in my pack. With my sleeping bag, I just shove it in the stuff sack, pushing down to squeeze out the air and make it small.

When my brother bought a new tent, the sales rep told him not to fold/roll the tent before putting it into the stuff sack. Just shove it into the stuff sack randomly. The justification is that rolling and folding the tent creases the same spots in the tent fabric over and over causing premature failure at these points. I don't know if this advise came from the tent manufacturers. Following this method would probably also make it harder to get the tent body into the stuff sack.

Try replacing your stuff sack with a compression sack. You get the oversized sack loaded up and then tighten down on the compression straps to pack it tight and compact.

I always manage to get my tent and sleeping bag back into their original stuff sacks, but sometimes it takes some effort.

Throw the bulk of what you are stuffing over your shoulder and hold the stuff sack w/one hand; stuff the tent or bag with the other hand, pushing it firmly to the bottom of the stuffsack. Just keep pushing it in, it gets easier with practice.

Stuffing tents:

It comes all nicely rolled and folded from the store, but as noted above it will never be that way again, nor should it be. Tuck the poles along the side of the stuffsack first, then stuff the rest of the parts in reverse order from setup (fly and vestibules first, tent last).

Sleeping bags:

Down stuffs easier than synthetic. A slightly-oversized compression stuff sack can help with synthetic-fill bags, but will probably kill the loft over time (Wiggy's, too, but it is a heck of a guarantee). I stuff my sleeping bag just before I get in the car and unpack it as soon as I get to camp to save the loft as much as possible.

Stuff sacks are called stuff sacks for a reason.

Folding/rolling? Yeah, I guess. Though I bet this is most peoples challenge when getting it back in the sack. I usually just jam it, "stuff it" (bag/tent) into the sack. Helps to keep the open ends (bag/tents) for last, releases more air.

Once heard from a manufacturer of tents (Coleman) that it is not a good practice to roll/fold tents and put them in sacks. Something about creating creases over time and effecting waterproofing. Made sense to me.

oh yeah....compression sacks make lives easier! Sounds like a bumper sticker!

I also stuff everything into their sacks. The tent is usually just stuffed into the bottom of my backpack, while the poles are strapped to the outside of my pack. I stuff the sleeping bag into its own sack, it usually only takes up 3/4 of the stuff sack it came with. Generally no problems here with stuff sacks. I imagine that if I tried to roll and fold everything, I would have a hard time putting them in their sacks.

Stuff Sacks? NO WAY!!

I have entirely eliminated stuff sacks and compression stacks from my packed gear. They only serve as a storage thingy. Here's why:

Every Bit of Weight Counts. At 1-2 oz per stuff sack, if you have a stuff sack for the following, you could aleviate about 1/2 a lb. 1/2 a pound!!!

1. Thermarest.
2. Sleeping Bag.
3. Tent.
4. Stove.

Space. Believe it or not, the compression sack itself is taking up space in your pack.

Lumpiness. When you compress your gear in to little lumps, it is like carrying around a bunch of different sized rocks in your pack. No thanks! I would rather have all my gear act like a liquid in my pack, allowing it to meld together. Also, this goes for the space argument, because the little rocks leave voids everywhere in your pack.

Ok, so what are the alternatives if your pack is not cutting it? Getting a bigger pack is out. If you have a synthetic sleeping bag, maybe it is time to upgrade to down. If you have a down bag already, maybe its time to upgrade to a higher fill. My 700 fill 25 degree bag packs down to about 1/2 of what my 600+ fill 15 degree bag.
I have waterproofed my pack with silicon spray (Wallmart special) and I use lightweight garbage bags as a liner for the inside of my pack. Oh, and the new thermarests are a trip! The Prolites take up less then 1/2 of what the old ones did, and they are MORE comfortable.

Just some ideas...

-percious

I agree with much of what percious says. “Lumpiness” is an issue for me, too, and his idea of having your gear act like a liquid is a good one. I also use down.

But I still use stuff sacks for tent and sleeping bag because I want to keep the bag dry and relatively clean (accidents happen), and because I want to keep the tent from getting other things dirty.

I get what for me is the best of both worlds (I don’t worry about the odd ounce in this area) by using very oversized stuff sacks that allow the bag and tent to be squnched into any shape the pack and the other materials in it require. This means big sacks and a loose closure, so it’s easy to press air out.

Finally, though I stuff my tent rather than rolling it, in bad weather -- especially rain and mud -- I take the trouble to fold the floor so that it is inside the rest of the material. Again, this is an effort to keep more things than necessary from getting mucked up.

Also, I’ve got to say, afka_bob, that is one sweet little hiking partner you’ve got there!

Roll, don't stuff

I personally don't like stuffing, I think it potentially does more damage than folding and rolling. Trying to stuff a tent back into it's stuff sack causes stress on the seams and could cause rips, I have actually seen the stuff sack rip from overstuffing. I find that folding and rolling a tent around the poles tightly makes a small and small neat package and eaislly fits back into the stuff sack with room to spare. The odds of the folds being in the exact same spot each time you pack the tent are very unlikley. Look at how long some tents sit in the warehouse or store in the factory folded and rolled condition without any adverse affects.

Here's another vote for using oversize stuff sacks. I find that it's much easier to get the gear inside and they fit better inside the pack.

The value of stuffing over folding come into play because we are people of habit. We will continue to fold the tent the same way, time over time (All of you who fold are nodding your heads right now... we know... it's ok to admit it). Where 2 folds continually come together small pinpoints will occur in the PU coating and eventually start to crack or draw away from the nylon.

How long you keep your tent and how often you use it are both factors. If you are only planning to use a tent for a few years and get rid of it, no problem. If you'd like to keep it in great shape for the next decade or so, stuffing is probably the best way to go - since every stuff is different than the last.

As far as the weight of stuff sacks, I switched to the OR hydroseal waterproof sacks about 10 years ago and was really surprised when I started weighing my gear and found that 4-5 OR sacks add up to a pound. As my stuff sacks have started to wear out from use, I have been using 1, 2 & 3 gallon freezer ziplocks, (which are almost weightless) for everything but my tent and sleeping bag.
I enclose my sleeping pad in a large garbage bag and roll it around the inside of my pack, creating a big center chamber and then place all my gear inside the chamber.

Tuco ... help your wife fold the laundry before she stuff sacks you ... the only alternative is joining the Navy and learning how to stuff a seabag.

Seriously, I find that folding things neatly (including my tent), a habit I learned stuffing seabags in the Coast Guard, I can get more into my backpack, thus creating more space for ... the iron frying pan and wine.

I've found it depends on the pack. With my old pack, Lowe Alpine Crossbow 90+15, I wouldn't use a stuff sack for the tent. The pack had a separate compartment in the bottom that I would put my sleeping bag (stuffed) in, and then fit the tent around it. This was the best way to maximize the space. Then I would put all my other gear and clothes in the top half of the pack which was big enough to fit a small Monogolian village.
With my new pack, Osprey Aether 60, stuff sacks are essential. It's the only way I can compress eveything down small enough to fit.
Also, stuff sacks are a good way to keep things organized...and dry.

Stan, You hit it on the head, I think. My Dad taught me how to pack *** years ago and he showed me the proper way to fold and roll shirts, pants, and everything else for maximum space and packability. I never realized until your post, but that was where he learned it (in the Coast Guard, and later, the Navy). It has always worked very well FOR ME.
With respect to tents and sleeping bags, I find it very hard to believe that anyone could fold today's tents twice and have the creases (if you can get creases) in the same place because nothing on these tents is square. On the old wall tent designs, I can see the argument. They were sqaure, and had a specific routine to the folding process. However, the heavier duck material seldom showed ill effects. OK, that stuff was like stainless steel compared to todays tent fabrics.
I still think you stand to do more damage by stuffing, and I also think you put more mini creases in the material that way. I have several tents that have been folded and rolled for 20 years, and the fold lines disappear when I put them up. These are old wall tent style backpacking tents that sold in the 70's and 80's and made of nylon very similiar to todays stuff.
I still stand by fold and roll but I respect those of you who don't. It's your gear, and I think you should be able to pack it the way you want without fear of criticisim.
Very enlightening thread.
Happy Hiking,
Tom

I was so happy when the saleperson at LL Bean told me I could just "stuff" my tent and not fold it. I have a hard enought time just trying to fold a stupid, g&*#*&##@ map, let alone a tent!

I love stuffsacks

and carry a lot stuffed in a sack just in case. Seriously, on a long haul, the blue bag is for breakfast, etc. You get the picture. Oh, and I always stuff my tent.

Tom, I think you are right about the rolling thing to save room. I did this when I was in the Army.

Just a tip on stuffing your tent, it helps when your partner is out of it

Just a tip on stuffing your tent, it helps when your partner is out of it

Actually, I have had companions on trips in the past that I would have enjoyed better if they were in a stuff sack. And there are also those who you find might benefit from a good stuffing in a sack.
So, I guess I am admitting I was wrong. There are times when stuffing can be good for your (mental) health.
Doggone, I am learning new things here all the time. I love this group!
Happy Hiking,
Tom