I mostly agree with all of this. I think ultimately some people just have better innate judgement than others and better utilize available resources to learn how to make better judgments going forward. I don’t say this to mean that such ability makes person A better than person B, but just state it as a fact of nature. And just because some people have better innate judgment doesn’t mean they don’t make big mistakes from time to time. There is an element of luck to everyone’s adventures, but some folks just have a better ability to identify, assess and manage those risks. This is my theory as to why some folks so easily get into what appears to others as very poor decision-making.
Another Unprepared Hiker Rescue
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jrcinnh
Member
A few years ago I summited coincident with another group, a member of that group struggled, reached the summit building dehydrated and vomiting. After some phone calls and banging on the door, crew came out and allowed the victim into the carport, they also coordinated the snow cat to come up and "rescue" the hiker. She was attended to by a medically trained hiker coincidentally summiting. The crew will help but may need a firm request.
I think the key in that statement is "the crew may" the Obs crew has no legal obligation to assist, they can voluntarily, but do not have to. https://eli-v.pitt.edu/display-laws...vidual, who, in good,acting or failing to act. I think at one point the OBS had a warning to the effect that anyone venturing on Mt Washington should not have the expectation of any refuge or assistance by the crew.
I think Maine has a formal program of vetting S&R volunteers https://www.mainesearchandrescue.org/
More details from the hiker and rescue crew https://www.yahoo.com/news/hiker-describes-11-hour-ordeal-013916365.html
One observation is his decision to skip the ambulance may not have been that irrational. When I broke my ankle, that quick trip from Wildcat to Berlin was close to $1,000. Insurance covered about $200. The only services I got was a warm ambulance box and conversation, I could have just have well gotten a ride in a private vehicle as one had met me at the bottom. After a prior car accident I got to observe first hand the very high level of pressure applied by first responders and the responding ambulance crew to do a hospital run, including signing a waiver. It sucks that economics has to factor into decisions like these but to a 22 year old guy who may or may not have insurance, it does factor in. My guess is he would have been transported to Littleton and the cost would have been a couple of thousand bucks just for the ride.
One observation is his decision to skip the ambulance may not have been that irrational. When I broke my ankle, that quick trip from Wildcat to Berlin was close to $1,000. Insurance covered about $200. The only services I got was a warm ambulance box and conversation, I could have just have well gotten a ride in a private vehicle as one had met me at the bottom. After a prior car accident I got to observe first hand the very high level of pressure applied by first responders and the responding ambulance crew to do a hospital run, including signing a waiver. It sucks that economics has to factor into decisions like these but to a 22 year old guy who may or may not have insurance, it does factor in. My guess is he would have been transported to Littleton and the cost would have been a couple of thousand bucks just for the ride.
https://www.boston.com/news/local-n...mount-washington-admits-he-was-underprepared/
His side of the story. Let you read the entire story, seems to not dispute anything. Interesting, PB, the reason he declined the ambulance was just what you referenced.
His side of the story. Let you read the entire story, seems to not dispute anything. Interesting, PB, the reason he declined the ambulance was just what you referenced.
DayTrip
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I found a ton of Ted Talks from Hugh but they all relate to bionics, artificial limbs, etc. Was that a result of his accident? I feel like as I was scrolling the videos I may have watched this video awhile back and some of the cobwebs have fallen off my aging memory.
DayTrip
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I'm sure they have to do this otherwise everyone and their brother would be knocking on the door for the OBS crew at the slightest level of discomfort and want a ride down, maybe get a hot dog and a bumper sticker in the gift shop, etc.
I'm sure that would get out of hand pretty fast. I'd like to think if there was a truly dire situation at their door they would do the right thing every time.
Here's another news item about this Washington / Lakes dungeon rescue. This has some quotes from the hiker, F&G officers, and statement from Presby of the Cog. The hiker:
“I am extremely grateful to all 11 of the men who saved my life Saturday and am also extremely sorry that they had to risk their lives to save me,” Matthes told The Associated Press. “I certainly made poor decisions and was underprepared for this hike.”
Hiker describes 11-hour ordeal after falling on Mount Washington, admits he was ‘underprepared’
https://www.bangordailynews.com/202...tbTxrNpXXnqX561Ll2Rsjj5DlGaLhEmsrWypFlszq_wiE
New Hampshire Fish and Game conservation officer Levi Frye, left, and Jeremy Broughton, from Androscoggin Valley Search and Rescue, prepare to head out on a rescue mission at the Cog Railway base station, Saturday in Mount Washington, New Hampshire. A team of rescuers used the Cog Railway to shave off time but it still took more than 10 hours to save a hiker in conditions that included sustained winds topping 90 mph. Credit: Sgt. Glen Lucas / New Hampshire Fish and Game via AP
“I am extremely grateful to all 11 of the men who saved my life Saturday and am also extremely sorry that they had to risk their lives to save me,” Matthes told The Associated Press. “I certainly made poor decisions and was underprepared for this hike.”
Hiker describes 11-hour ordeal after falling on Mount Washington, admits he was ‘underprepared’
https://www.bangordailynews.com/202...tbTxrNpXXnqX561Ll2Rsjj5DlGaLhEmsrWypFlszq_wiE
New Hampshire Fish and Game conservation officer Levi Frye, left, and Jeremy Broughton, from Androscoggin Valley Search and Rescue, prepare to head out on a rescue mission at the Cog Railway base station, Saturday in Mount Washington, New Hampshire. A team of rescuers used the Cog Railway to shave off time but it still took more than 10 hours to save a hiker in conditions that included sustained winds topping 90 mph. Credit: Sgt. Glen Lucas / New Hampshire Fish and Game via AP
JoshandBaron
Well-known member
I feel like there are a lot of links to information posted here and no one seems to be looking at any of them.
Andrew
Active member
They do. It can be difficult to get involved in these discussions as it can open up old wounds. Look at the picture of the pack that Levi Frye of NHF&G was carrying on his back about to board The Cog. I always listened jealously to ultralight hikers describe their gear loads; I could never relate as I always had to carry not only for myself, but at least one potential patient. All my former colleagues and I suffer terrible back pain.
Our workplace insurance liability advisors would provide great workshops on how any workplace injury was avoidable with proper planning and action. He didn't like when I would challenge that notion and describe carrying a 300 lb. patient down a mountain where protecting the patient in your care is the priority. People would often just drop into a hole and you hoped it wasn't too far down and they could keep carrying. Rescuers often have to let go of a litter so as not to bring it down with you when falling, so that load is immediately transferred to those still on the litter. With all that said, the work attracts a unique breed that finds satisfaction for some reason.
jrcinnh
Member
Absolutely, I'd always been told that they won't help. But also understood that they are human beings and would not knowingly let a person die. It's important that people don't hike up assuming they have refuge, too many reckless people already.I'm sure they have to do this otherwise everyone and their brother would be knocking on the door for the OBS crew at the slightest level of discomfort and want a ride down, maybe get a hot dog and a bumper sticker in the gift shop, etc.
I'd like to think if there was a truly dire situation at their door they would do the right thing every time.
Since this is low-hanging fruit, I'll bite. If you read the book I cited or the American Alpine article that was cited by others, you'll get the full story. Long story short, he lost both legs below the thigh to frostbite and needed prosthetic legs back before the tech was as developed as it is today. He went on to run an artificial limb group at MIT and pioneered new technology in the field. He also went on to make some crazy first ascents in rock climbing, including Stage Fright (5.12x) on Cathedral. I'm doing this off memory so others can correct my facts if they are wrong. Did he redeem himself? Only you can be the judge of that. I met him a few times. He was polite but seemed inwardly intense/absorbed.I found a ton of Ted Talks from Hugh but they all relate to bionics, artificial limbs, etc. Was that a result of his accident? I feel like as I was scrolling the videos I may have watched this video awhile back and some of the cobwebs have fallen off my aging memory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine
I've gotten to the point in life where I consider anybody under the age of 50 to be a kid.
In that light, perhaps families of the dead should start suing the owners of these staffed building, railroads and roads?
As Rick Wilcox pointed out back in the 90s after the Tinkham rescue attempt, the Whites are not and should not be like Baxter and the price of Freedom of the Hills is that people can park their car and walk to the death in short order.
That said, I continue to think having staffed buildings and the hope of mechanized rescue creates an attractive nuisance effect. The road, cog and observatory were on, say, Moosilauke or Lafayette or any number of other peaks, we would be talking about the high rates of rescues on that mountain instead, IMO.
I've gotten to the point in life where I consider anybody under the age of 50 to be a kid.
In that light, perhaps families of the dead should start suing the owners of these staffed building, railroads and roads?
As Rick Wilcox pointed out back in the 90s after the Tinkham rescue attempt, the Whites are not and should not be like Baxter and the price of Freedom of the Hills is that people can park their car and walk to the death in short order.
That said, I continue to think having staffed buildings and the hope of mechanized rescue creates an attractive nuisance effect. The road, cog and observatory were on, say, Moosilauke or Lafayette or any number of other peaks, we would be talking about the high rates of rescues on that mountain instead, IMO.
sierra
Well-known member
While descending into the Great Gulf, Hugh fell into a stream soaking his legs. They froze solid that night. Rule number 1 when trying to get un-lost in the winter, don't fall into any water.I found a ton of Ted Talks from Hugh but they all relate to bionics, artificial limbs, etc. Was that a result of his accident? I feel like as I was scrolling the videos I may have watched this video awhile back and some of the cobwebs have fallen off my aging memory.
Riiiight. Because settling grievances outside of the rule of law is good for society?
And now Outside Magazine weighs in
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration-survival/mount-washington-rescue-report/
One guided ascent of Mt Washington apparently makes them expert on things Mt Washington
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration-survival/mount-washington-rescue-report/
One guided ascent of Mt Washington apparently makes them expert on things Mt Washington
JoshandBaron
Well-known member
I get unreasonably annoyed when people conflate windchill with the actual temperature.
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