I currently own the Fischer Touring Crown (non-metal edges) and NNN bindings, used almost always in track at touring centers. If I want to start skiing on hiking trail destinations (Avalanche Pass, Pharoah Lake, Siamese Ponds, Whiteface Mtn toll road, etc.), I'm assuming a backcountry ski and binding would be smarter, especially with a full daypack. Any ski and binding suggestion would be appreciated. Used or sales on discontinued models will be considered.
Backcountry touring skis
- Thread starter adkayaker
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snowshoe
New member
You might want to check out Sirra Trading Post I just got there catolog in the mail and they have a great deal on Fisher Europa 109 touring Ski with Metal edges for $94.95 # is 71541 sierratradingpost.com
There are more kinds of "backcountry" skis than you can shake a ski pole at. In general, there is a tension between touring efficiency and turning ability and the different ski types try to strike different balances between the two.
It is imperitive that the boots match the ski. Trying to handle wider skis with lower, softer boots won't work so good.
I don't recognize the trails you are talking about so I'm not sure what part of the country you are skiing in. Knowing that and what kind of boot you will be using will help a lot.
Here are some loose (and very much out of date) thoughts on the types of skis out there.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/BCskis.txt
Other thoughts, rants and rambles on bc skiing are here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html
Hope this helps,
Dave
It is imperitive that the boots match the ski. Trying to handle wider skis with lower, softer boots won't work so good.
I don't recognize the trails you are talking about so I'm not sure what part of the country you are skiing in. Knowing that and what kind of boot you will be using will help a lot.
Here are some loose (and very much out of date) thoughts on the types of skis out there.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/BCskis.txt
Other thoughts, rants and rambles on bc skiing are here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html
Hope this helps,
Dave
crazymama
New member
Check out a thread, titled "Backcountry Ski Equipment" from October 15-17, 2003 in which I basically asked the same question.
Several folks provided a wealth of information and opinions on this very subject, which I found very helpful.
Several folks provided a wealth of information and opinions on this very subject, which I found very helpful.
Metal edges not always necessary
ADKayaker-
I've skied most of the routes you mention. If you are an experienced XC skier metal edges are not necessary - unless you are on hiking/ski trails in the high peaks or in icy conditions.
Whiteface auto road is a very gentle grade both up and down. I met a few guys up there 2 week ago on racing gear. Siamese Ponds wilderness is no different than most good ski touring centers in terms of difficulty.
However, when things get icy and you are ungroomed terrain the metal edges are nice to have. They also help on herringbone ascents or crossing clear ice lakes (as Avalanche Lake typically can be).
If you are not experienced in backcountry skiing the metal edges give a great feeling of security.
KZ
ADKayaker-
I've skied most of the routes you mention. If you are an experienced XC skier metal edges are not necessary - unless you are on hiking/ski trails in the high peaks or in icy conditions.
Whiteface auto road is a very gentle grade both up and down. I met a few guys up there 2 week ago on racing gear. Siamese Ponds wilderness is no different than most good ski touring centers in terms of difficulty.
However, when things get icy and you are ungroomed terrain the metal edges are nice to have. They also help on herringbone ascents or crossing clear ice lakes (as Avalanche Lake typically can be).
If you are not experienced in backcountry skiing the metal edges give a great feeling of security.
KZ
If the routes that the original poster was talking about can be done on edgeless skis, then this suggests to me that they should look at what I call compact xc touring skis. I'm thinking here of things like the Karhu Pavo or Fischer Outbound. I think this type of ski makes a lot of sense for most xc skiers looking to take the next step away from touring centers.
That said, personal prefs have a lot to do with it. Folks who like faster kick and glide might prefer a more traditional ski like the Madshus Pellestova while folks looking for more turnability might want all sorts of wider, less cambered skis.
I had a chance to update my thoughts on backcountry touring skis. More information (ok, rants and opinions really) than might be useful...
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html
Hope this helps.
That said, personal prefs have a lot to do with it. Folks who like faster kick and glide might prefer a more traditional ski like the Madshus Pellestova while folks looking for more turnability might want all sorts of wider, less cambered skis.
I had a chance to update my thoughts on backcountry touring skis. More information (ok, rants and opinions really) than might be useful...
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html
Hope this helps.
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While it is true that you can ski just about anything with non-metal edged skis I think there are great advantages to having edges on just about any backcountry trip. Especially in the East, where conditions can turn icy as soon as the sun drops behind the ridge, you get a much greater ability to slow down with edges. What may seem like a slight hill on the way up under sunny skies can turn into an icy plummet on the way back.
If you want to be able to tele turn, having some sidecut is extremely useful. It's not an absolute requirement, many of us learned to tele on skis that had almost no sidecut. But why subject yourself to that if you don't have to. The Fischer S-Bound series has several skis with varying amounts of sidecut, some better suited for long distance touring others for turning, all allowing both. Karhu makes a similar group of skis.
I'm a big fan of the lightest plastic boots (Scarpa T4, Garmont Excursion) with 75mm 3-pin bindings. If you expect to climb and descend a lot, get detachable cables. The boots may seem like overkill but there are quite light, offer amazing support, and give you much better torsional control than any leather boot. But there are some nice leather and combo boots as well.
I haven't been too impressed with NNN-BC bindings for anything involving descents, other folks say they're OK. I think a good 75mm 3-pin is more robust and less likely to have a failure, plus I prefer the boot selection.
You will need a ski much shorter than you think you need. Ski lengths have shrunk over the years as skis got wider and skiers got smarter.
-dave-
If you want to be able to tele turn, having some sidecut is extremely useful. It's not an absolute requirement, many of us learned to tele on skis that had almost no sidecut. But why subject yourself to that if you don't have to. The Fischer S-Bound series has several skis with varying amounts of sidecut, some better suited for long distance touring others for turning, all allowing both. Karhu makes a similar group of skis.
I'm a big fan of the lightest plastic boots (Scarpa T4, Garmont Excursion) with 75mm 3-pin bindings. If you expect to climb and descend a lot, get detachable cables. The boots may seem like overkill but there are quite light, offer amazing support, and give you much better torsional control than any leather boot. But there are some nice leather and combo boots as well.
I haven't been too impressed with NNN-BC bindings for anything involving descents, other folks say they're OK. I think a good 75mm 3-pin is more robust and less likely to have a failure, plus I prefer the boot selection.
You will need a ski much shorter than you think you need. Ski lengths have shrunk over the years as skis got wider and skiers got smarter.
-dave-
ecc
Member
I agree with Dave–3-pin bindings are my preferred binding and a cable makes a big difference on descents. Short, fat, waxless,metal edged are the way to go for touring in the Adks or Catskills, in my opinion.
ecc
ecc
I too am still learning about BC skiing. Thanks Dave for the insight. Where does one go about getting the BC boots / bindings mentioned? Is this a popular item in most ski shops or is it a specialty item? Any info would be appreciated.
Lighter touring gear is a bit specialized. Heavier tele gear is more popular.
It's been a while since I visted their shop, but I think All Sports in Manchester carries backcountry skis and boots. Some EMS locations do, as well. REI in N. Reading, MA usually has a decent selection. Several shops in N. Conway and Boston if you get that far north and south.
It's been a while since I visted their shop, but I think All Sports in Manchester carries backcountry skis and boots. Some EMS locations do, as well. REI in N. Reading, MA usually has a decent selection. Several shops in N. Conway and Boston if you get that far north and south.
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