Carrigain & Hancocks - lines?

[Dugan]

While on Bondcliffs the other day, I noticed faint lines visible on Carrigain and the Hancocks. They run horizontally at what appears to be a reasonably constant elevations - like something drew contour lines along the mountain sides.

I don't think this was pain-induced hallucination, NH_Mtn_Hiker saw them, and I've noticed them previously.

Any idea what these are?

 

[dr_wu002]

While on Bondcliffs the other day, I noticed faint lines visible on Carrigain and the Hancocks. They run horizontally at what appears to be a reasonably constant elevations - like something drew contour lines along the mountain sides.

I don't think this was pain-induced hallucination, NH_Mtn_Hiker saw them, and I've noticed them previously.

Any idea what these are?

They are graded skidder roads from the logging days. Look carefully... you can see them on Southwest Twin and a few areas like that as well. Try following them.

I believe that a few of these 'roads' cross the trail while going up South Hancock. Some seem to be pretty grown over but they are graded. One at about 3500' looks like it's in good shape and I'd like to walk out on it some day soon.

You can see them much better when it's not so green out there.

-Dr. Wu

 

[sapblatt]

Cool - I was always wondering what those were...they seemed to planned to be natural features.

 

[dr_wu002]

FWIW, when we went into Redrock Ravine, after we got off the Rail Road Spur we followed one of these roads like a topo-line. In fact, I think we eventually BW'd to another on higher up. It looks like it got human travel but I also suspect animal travel because it looked somewhat erratic. Walking on the grade was nice and made it very easy to pick up.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Frodo]

If you ever want to see a few pictures (and read the history) of what those mountains were like during the railroad/logging days, pick up a copy of Logging Railroads of the White Mountains by C. Francis Belcher (available at all fine Mountain Wanderer bookstores in the Lincoln area ).

Makes you want to cry like that Native American fellow did back in those 1970's pollution commercials...

 

[post'r boy]

If you ever want to see a few pictures (and read the history) of what those mountains were like during the railroad/logging days, pick up a copy of Logging Railroads of the White Mountains by C. Francis Belcher (available at all fine Mountain Wanderer bookstores in the Lincoln area ).

Makes you want to cry like that Native American fellow did back in those 1970's pollution commercials...

that guy was an italian!!!! not a native american!!! double

 

[--M.]

Just goes to show what happens when a bunch of white guys try to portray an "Indian" to white viewers.

On the other hand, it does seem to be one of the most enduring media images of its era. Not sure what to make of that.

In addition, although there are so many shameful episodes in our nation's history, one doesn't know where to start, it seems we have nonetheless had some very real and significant success in abating some kinds of man-made devastation (to wit, the Pemi itself, the Clean Air/Clean Water Acts, and the Boston Harbor judgments).

Lots of possible controversy here, huh?

 

[woodsman642004]

"Makes you want to cry like that Native American fellow did back in those 1970's pollution commercials... "


Isn't it great that it grows back!!! I'm curious as to what it will look like in another 50 - 100 years?? And would have loved to see it before the axe and saw. But, I bet if it had never been harvested, the hike to many peaks would be much more difficult.

As far as the lines go, they are related to logging as the prior posts suggest. I doubt they were used by skidders, more likely they used horses pulling skids, or maybe a steam Lombard (like a train with ski's and tracks) to forward the wood to a rail siding, or stream. The logging history in the area is really interesting, and although pictures of past logging practices seem and perhaps were abhorent, they eventually led to the Weeks Act which led to the formation of the National Forest system, and the trees grew back!!

wow, my first post . . . over with . . . hope I don't get too many red faces

 

[dr_wu002]

"Makes you want to cry like that Native American fellow did back in those 1970's pollution commercials... "


Isn't it great that it grows back!!! I'm curious as to what it will look like in another 50 - 100 years?? And would have loved to see it before the axe and saw. But, I bet if it had never been harvested, the hike to many peaks would be much more difficult.

As far as the lines go, they are related to logging as the prior posts suggest. I doubt they were used by skidders, more likely they used horses pulling skids, or maybe a steam Lombard (like a train with ski's and tracks) to forward the wood to a rail siding, or stream. The logging history in the area is really interesting, and although pictures of past logging practices seem and perhaps were abhorent, they eventually led to the Weeks Act which led to the formation of the National Forest system, and the trees grew back!!

wow, my first post . . . over with . . . hope I don't get too many red faces

No, no red faces.

I think this is still on topic because it has to do with what you might find when bushwhacking in these areas. Could you go into more detail about skidders, steam lombards and about the construction of these roads. It seems like you know something about it -- I must profess ignorance... I have an idea of what a "skidder road" is and what it looks like and whatnot but I don't know much of the details.

-Dr. Wu

 

[woodsman642004]

I'm a forester by trade, but by no means an expert on logging history, but here goes . . . (I like to hike also, 4 more peaks to go on the NH 48 list) . . .

When i read the term skidder, I think of a large 4 wheeled rubber tired machine designed for "skidding" or dragging large bunches or "Hitches" of trees that were felled by hand crews (chain saw) or mechanically (feller buncher). Skidders didn't arrive on the logging scene until the early 60's. But skid roads, skid trails, tote roads, all refer to the path taken to get the smaller batches of wood to a "landing" or concentration area. The landing would be located where the next stage of the process would occur, namely getting the wood to the mill. Currently, that process involves tractor trailers so landings are located near roads. In the not so distant past, it may have involved streams and rivers where the wood was floated to a mill, so landings would be concentrated near or on frozen rivers and streams. In the Pemi region, a logging railroad was built into the area being logged, so the wood was landed near a rail siding. In the early 1900's when the Pemi was logged, there were no skidders. There were Horses, trains, and possibly Lombards (steam driven snow train - not on a track, but a tracked vehicle with skis on the front to steer much like a half-track but larger and built for pulling long train of sleds loaded with wood). All the logging was done in the winter on snow. Skid roads were constructed in the summer months in preparation for the winters harvest.
The roads were constructed on the contour and located every 500' or so up the side of a mountain. This was all carefully planned. The wood between the trails was cut and skidded by horse to the lower "road", where it was loaded on sleds and skidded by teams of horses, or steam lombard to a yarding area near a rail siding or stream. From there it was loaded onto the train or set on a frozen stream for transport to the mill.

Quite a process involving alot of coordination of resources in terms of men, horses, and supplies. Lots of evidence in the pemi region and elsewhere in the whites. The trails really show up well this time of year and in the spring because of the tree species growing on what was once heavilly disturbed ground. Lots of early successional species like white birch and quaking aspen are conentrated along those old skid roads.

Hope this helps, but if you really want to know more about it, any of the logging history books or videos could give you a much clearer picture than what I described. Sorry for the loooooooooooong post.

 

[Dugan]

No apologies necessary, thanks so much all for the info. I wondered if the lines were related to logging. While they seemed to regular to be natural, I didn't consider logging to be a viable option. I didn't think logging/skidder roads would be so evenly spaced for so long. The ones I explore close to home are not..

As for exploring them in the Whites, I'm game!

 

[forestgnome]

Welcome, Woodsman!

Great post! I've seen books about this but never read them. Thanks for explaining the lines, which I've also gazed at from The Bonds.

The WMNF is an ultra-silver lining of the ugly clear cutting. Outrage over the immense scale of the devastation lead to the establishment of the WMNF, as you stated. Now we all have houses to live in, and trails (former logging roads) to hike, through a beautiful, protected forest. All's well that end well!

Happy Trails!

 

[Dalraida]

Drag road construction

If you would like to see one of the "machines" that the old logging construction crews used to create these drag roads, there is one located just off the trail going up the Downes Brook trail about half way to the Sleeper trail intersection. The "machine" or tool is a three by four foot horse dragged iron scoop with a chain on front for pulling, and a trip line or chain to dump it. It's located just after going up a small rise to a flatter area on the left side of the trail, ascending. The implement looks a lot like a miniature version of todays big coal mining "drag line" buckets.

In this light if you like to look at old machinery. There are the remains some kind of log pulling tractor located on a hillside off the East Side "truck road" in the Lincoln Woods vicinity. To find it, walk up the East Side trail until you get to an area with lots of old (and new) beaver activity and an old logging road crossing to your right. If the leaves are down you can just make out an old logging road slabbing up the hillside about a hundred meters distant. Once you make your way over to the old road you will see a large pit on your left. The mechanical artifact, whatever it is, is near that hole. Just some of my White Mountain Memories.

 

[David Metsky]

There are also fairly prominent on the Blue Ridge as seen from the summit of Moosilauke. When people ask about them I ususally start by saying that they are contour lines, but most catch on.

-dave-

 

[chuck]

I carry a copy of some of the rough maps from the Logging Railroads of the White Mountains book , with my topo maps. I believe the book has some pictures of those crazy looking Lombard things. The map also shows many logging camp sites ( Theres another list.... "I just need camp 22A and I am almost done")

Dr. Wu I read your redrock trip report and I think you are exactly right on where you went off course (although it sounds like you ended up in a great place anyways.) At one point on the logging road as when you see it about to run into the brook you need to make a left turn up hill (no road) about 30 feet to continue on the road.

I do much of my hiking with someone who has done a lot of logging, tree work and went to arborculture school. Sometimes I learn more from him on a hike about my surroundings than I do all year at home.
I don't like Poplar.......

The thing about the Indian double wrecked the rest of my day.

 

[hikeritz]

I've also been intrigued with the maps in the Logging Railroads book. Some day I'd like to try to find the camps on the east side of Bond/Guyot (Camps 22A and 23A). 23A was just off Jumping Brook and at one time (info from the Lost Trails website) there was a trail from the Bondcliff/Bond col down through Camp 22A.

I think I've been on that old road off the Eastside trail. We stumbled across it while bushwacking in the area and wound up setting up camp on the road, then followed it down to the trail in the morning. Might it have led to Camp 8B? I don't recall seeing the machinery on the way out, but it was a long time ago. Maybe worth a return visit.

Info about the Crying Indian. Bummer.

 

[dr_wu002]

I've also been intrigued with the maps in the Logging Railroads book. Some day I'd like to try to find the camps on the east side of Bond/Guyot (Camps 22A and 23A). 23A was just off Jumping Brook and at one time (info from the Lost Trails website) there was a trail from the Bondcliff/Bond col down through Camp 22A.

Info about the Crying Indian. Bummer.

I should read my old posts! You posted about the pond to this thread already.

We're heading into this area soon and I've heard of some "interesting things" in Camp 23A. Hope to find Camp 22A... that's higher up, right? I have to check the map.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Orsonab]

While on Bondcliffs the other day, I noticed faint lines visible on Carrigain and the Hancocks. They run horizontally at what appears to be a reasonably constant elevations - like something drew contour lines along the mountain sides.

I don't think this was pain-induced hallucination, NH_Mtn_Hiker saw them, and I've noticed them previously.

Any idea what these are?

Everybody knows that these are the markings left by the alien Dog People who called here before moving on to Egypt. Ever wondered why Mount Adams is shaped like a pyramid? Coincidence? I think not.

And don't get me started about the Old Man of the Mountains....

 

[Puck]

I find both the crying Indian-Italian and chief Seatle speach very interesting. They are icons. KNowing the 'reality' behind the image does not change the message and the collective identity that the icons represent. One could argue that the image is manufactured...well what image isn't?

 

[Gator]

Speaking of strange horizontal lines, does anyone know why one of the mountains you can see from Katahdin (the Brothers maybe?) is striped with a lighter color? The stripes of light and dark are roughly the same height. It's a strange sight.