Hiking, Scrambling, Climbing and Skiing New Slides

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Can't forget our good friend, the wind! Wind loading is huge and anyone who has walked on wind slab, well, its one of the most unnerving things you can do. Thanks sierra.

I dunno about you guys, but I'm getting so pysched for winter ice climbing!

 

[sardog1]

I'm not going to comment on rock and mud slides because I don't know crap about them.

Snow I know something about. I have three suggestions -- you will get the most benefit, IMO, if you follow them in the order stated.

1. Read Heuristic Traps in Recreational Avalanche Accidents: Evidence and Implications. Then read it again and again until you understand the message.

2. Take full advantage of the materials available at the Forest Service National Avalanche Center -- Avalanche Awareness Website

3. Get educated in person, in the field, by somebody competent. Here's a good place to find such people:Avalanche Courses in the Mount Washington Valley

 

[Elizabeth]

I'm not going to comment on rock and mud slides because I don't know crap about them.


1. Read Heuristic Traps in Recreational Avalanche Accidents: Evidence and Implications. Then read it again and again until you understand the message.

Avalanche Courses in the Mount Washington Valley

Fascinating article on "Heuristic Traps." The concept seems to be applicable to a number of dangerous outdoor pursuits. I was once skating on a river with a physicist who is an expert on the properties of ice. His take on the matter of safety: "Thin ice doesn't know you're an expert."

 

[DougPaul]

I was once skating on a river with a physicist who is an expert on the properties of ice. His take on the matter of safety: "Thin ice doesn't know you're an expert."

It has also been observed that those who take avalanche courses are more likely to die in avalanches...

Correlation does not imply causation, but I can guess at causation going either or both ways:
* People who go into avalanche terrain (and thus are more likely to die in an avalanche) take the courses.
* People who take the courses gain the illusion that they can predict avalanche risk more accurately and therefore take more and/or greater risks and thus die more often.

Ice strength prediction and snow stability prediction will likely always remain inexact sciences...

Doug

 

[sierra]

Digging pits (and all the other tests) can only assess the stability of the test spot (to the depth of the pit), not the entire area. And, of course, a release could occur from above your route.

There is no 100% reliable way of avoiding snow slides other than completely avoiding any terrain that has the slightest possibility of avalanche and any possible run-out zones. Even professionally controlled ski slopes occasionally avalanche...

Doug

While I agree with your premis, digging a pit is still imo the best way to test snow. I also feel the snow, not touching it but "feeling it" Ive been on alot on long steep snow, I can ussually tell how stable it is, BUT you can never truely know, sometimes I just look up and ask god to give me a couple of hours of climbing time then let her go.

 

[DougPaul]

While I agree with your premis, digging a pit is still imo the best way to test snow. I also feel the snow, not touching it but "feeling it" Ive been on alot on long steep snow, I can ussually tell how stable it is, BUT you can never truely know, sometimes I just look up and ask god to give me a couple of hours of climbing time then let her go.

Sure--I agree digging a pit is the best way for a traveler to asses the stability. But, of course, it doesn't tell you everything about a slope and conditions can change with time.

Ski areas have better techniques for assessing the stability (eg explosives), but they are not practical for a traveler and may release avalanches on anyone below.

Doug

 

[sierra]

One of the tools I use is to take study of the past conditions for any area that I might be climbing in. Knowing what the weather has been on a mountain for the 5 days prior to a climb can also be extremely valuable for evaluating possible avalanche conditions.