I'm I the only one anti-GPS out there?

[Bhoody]

When hiking that is... Almost seems to make it too easy to get there IMHO. Is it (GPS) helping to put an end to adventure?? I gave mine to my father to use on his boat...

Just curious to see what others think.

 

[bill bowden]

Using a GPS requires some skill, I don't use one but still rely on map and compass and my own sense of terrain. Have had a number of experiiences with friends using GPS (and these guys know what they are doing in the woods) finding they get all turned around. At least some of the early models seemed to have trouble with trees interfereing with reception which in NH made them fairly difficult tools to use.

 

[mavs00]

I own and use (all the time), but do NOT need a GPS. It's a fun toy for me, that's all. Unless you're really (and I mean REALLY) bushwhacking, you do not only NOT need a GPS, you do not need a compass or map either. All you need is 1) The ability to follow discs/cairns/blazes (on a marked trail); or 2) the ability to look down and follow everyone esles footsteps (herdpath).

For me, the question is not really "do I need one?" or "Does this take the SPORT out of it?", it more a matter of how I choose to enjoy farting around with MY time in the woods.

I am a gadget wennie (and admit it) so I recently GPSed the Macomb slide for distance, elevation, location, blaa, blaa blaa. For me, it was a fun to later plot it out on the computor. I understand others might find this boring.

I have a nearly photographic memory for places I been and a great sense of internal direction. I feel incredible comfortable in the woods anyway with or without my unit. So having one is not really the point of "need or not need".

By the title (anti-GPS), Am I to infer that you beleive no-one should use one? or it's just your choice NOT TO?

If it's the first, my response is; Sorry, I disagree

and if it's the later, I say: That's cool with me

 

[Warren]

Not anti-gps, but I have little interest in one. I would like to learn how to use one at some point.

Does it make it too easy to get there or take the adventure out of it? Don't know. I figure those that are using them as their prime direction confirmation device aren't looking for that sort of adventure anyway.

What I am seeing with them is that's it's easier for others to repeat a route and users attempting longer, more difficult day hikes secure that time lost to route finding is minimized.

I do think that they are neat for id'ing a campsite, waterfall, spring or what not that you come upon in your wanderings for a later return. Much easier to transfer the waypoint to mapping software, print out a map and then try to get back there secure that the map location is accurate.

A not to old thread points out the GPS as a useful tool for finding trailheads. As one who has wandered for hours after a 7 hour drive trying to find a trailhead, I think that's just the thing.

 

[Rob]

I've never used a GPS. I can't see spending the money for one, but if someone were to give me one I'd at least play around with it. I carry a compass with me, but I've never needed it, either. They're both just tools. They're handy to have, but they're not really essential, at least not in any situation I've yet found myself in.

 

[Stan]

Let's face it, the worse you can do if you get lost in the Northeast is spend a night or two out in the woods ... hello, isn't that why we go there?

I rely on map and compass but am by no means anti-GPS. I think they're useful tools to have and I like the feature that allows you to track yourself on trailess peaks and see just how true to your planned course you stayed. I've only used one when REI loaned one to my son. I admire how some people have used this device, however.

... but I don't own one and would buy a few toys ahead of that one.

 

[Puma concolor]

As a complete techno-idiot, I am anti-GPS but only because the technology is beyond the grasp of my limited intelligence. I bought one a while back and couldn't figure the damn thing out other than knowing that I was a couple thousand miles east of the factory that produced the dang thing. I decided I didn't need a GPS to tell me that so in the box it has remained.

 

[Gris]

Don't own a GPS but will some day soon, maybe this Christmas. IMO would be very useful and better than compass in number of situations - such as low visability above treeline and back-tracking in general, also going to spot referred to by someone else on numbers. Seems like it would be prudent to still take compass along as back up if GPS battery failed. Also nice to have because most have altimeter built in and can use that to track where you are along a trail, etc. They are so small, light and useful only justifcation I know to not have one is cost.

 

[Peakbagr]

I was brought up on map reading and using a compass. The army beat that info me.
For over a couple of decades, I've used and ejoyed plotting my routes on the map and then pencilling in the bearing in the field.
In the days before the herd paths became trail, a map and compass was necessary.
I'll take a small detour from what Mav said and said about not needing a map and compass in the woods. I am not blessed with natural sense of memory or direction, but wish I were. I feel that map and compass skills are necessary in at least 3 instances.

Before heading out on peaks above the treeline, I plot my bearings back to the treeline from the summit and tape them to the back of the compass. In snow, rain or fog, all ways look down and I've seen some severely confused folks way above the treeline in the ADKs or Whites have no idea which way they came from with the wind howling and the maps being torn out of their fingers. We once saved a party on Marcy one winter with zero visability. They insisted the way back was toward Panter Gorge. I've seen similar examples countless times in whiteouts. I've followed my instincts off of many winter summits in poor visibility where the track has disappeared, only to double check the compass and discover I was going in the wrong direction.

Catskill herd paths are usuall much less defined than in the ADKS. Many of us love to bushwack in the Catskills and preplanning your route and then following is a much more enjoyable time than thrashing thru ADK blowdown.

Map and compass are useful if you decide to change your route. You're on a long summit ridge, for example and you want to cut back cross country, or someone gets injured and you want a quicker way back for help.

On true ADK bushwacks like the ADK100, the map and compass can certainly assist in identifying terrain and the way up and down. Great for use when the canopy doens't allow a satellite fix.

After many years, I'm starting to learn how to use a GPS. Its a lot of fun to punch in where a remote trailhead is as well as the summit. On some of the ADK100, there nasty, wooded, summit ridges that have no herdpaths, multiple bumps. The thick terrain can hide the true summit over there 1/4 mile away and 15' higher. The GPS can point you to the top.

 

[TenPeaks]

I've been using a GPS for about 5 years, however I rarely use it for navigation. Instead I use it to judge distance and altitude. The altitude is helpful with finding my location on a map and for distance it's kind of nice knowing that at the end of a long hike the car is only .5 miles away and I'll be there in 7 minutes.

 

[John H Swanson]

Having learned and extendsively used map, compass and altimeter skills before GPSes were available, I haven't found a need for them for off trail navigation. Then when I got involved with SAR, I had to pick-up the skill of plotting and reading coordinated off the map using UTM gridding. Again I'm doing this without a GPS while surrounded by team members with GPSes. So I've become accustomed to the Easting and Northing speak. I think knowing the UTM grid is useful and it's a new skill that can take the old school folks and fit them in with the newer GPS methods.

I do not have anything against the GPS, but I think that it can be a big crutch for people in need of better map and compass skills. For example I was asked someone with a GPS his coordinated and he read them to me. Then I asked him to give me an estimate of the coordinated of a team member on a rise on the other side of a ravine about 50m away. He was dumbstruck. This is a question that is easy to guess at if you know the funamentals... of course if you wanted 1m precision you might need a trig calculator too.

JHS

I find it fun to guess my coordinated by terrain association (looking at the land features) and altimeter and then looking at the GPS to see how close I am. Not that easy at daytime, but quite a challenge with in the middle of the night with redlight and safety glassses. It really has helped because I can see my mistakes in reading the terrain. Most time my response is to doubt the GPS. (..."bull___, it's wrong") Then I start to look around again and replot my points and see my errors.
So I guess it is good in that way to have a GPS.

Plus I can always use the batteries if the ones in my walkman die.

 

[mavs00]

I'll take a small detour from what Mav said and said about not needing a map and compass in the woods.

Oh contrare, I never said you don't NEED a compass, At least I never intended to. I'll correct myself. I HAVE NOT yet needed to pull out my map and compass on any marked trail or herd paths to date. Of course I pre-planned and had read route descriptions, then by following the markers or looking at the ground, I've made my way without difficulty.

Also, my GPS is a Map and Compass (and an Altimeter), It's just a digital one. btw, I was learnt by Uncle Sammy too, so I know the basic of the oldcraft as well. I just have found the digital version adequate for ME.

Sure, As Alpine states, sometimes you do lose a signal (I always get it back if I stop long enough), and that gets annoying. At the same time, I unintetionally ripped, soaked, lost out of my pocket many maps as well. I even stepped on and destroyed a compass or two. My point is all tools have limitations, which is why the wisest have back-up failsafes in case one fails and another in needed. I alway have map and compass in my pack.

btw, I've also test shot athmuths with my trusty compass and GPS mostly because I was, at first, not comprehending that this little box could do the same as my compass. I found them to be very compatable over time and reps.

 

[Bhoody]

agree with the altimeter

Ok - my altimeter has come handy (before I lost it on bushwhack to North Seward) from time to time. BUt it was an old one that you had to set at a known elevation. I guess it's just an aversion to having a "computer" in the woods... I can see them for SAR purposes too... Maybe I'll convert yet.

 

[Frosty]

When hiking that is... Almost seems to make it too easy to get there IMHO. Just curious to see what others think.

It's hard to find where to draw the line at what technology is okay to use and what isn't.

Do you use a new-technology nylon tent with fiberglass poles, an older tent (canvas with wooden poles) or animal skins and branches?

As an old fogey, I still sometimes wear wool pants when snowshoeing. In the woods, though, not above treeline.

My GPS has a map. Before I got it, I was printing out maps from software, and before that buying them at KTP for $2.50 a pop. Not sure what the difference is. The GPS can orient me to the map, but I culd generally do that anyway. Even without an altimeter watch.

On the other hand, I think using a cell phone on a mountain except in emergencies is terrible. I guess it's a personal call. (oops. no pun intended. honest.)

Frosty

 

[RoySwkr]

When hiking that is... Almost seems to make it too easy to get there IMHO.

Does your GPS come with wings or a rotor

I don't see that it reduces the physical challenge much, it may even increase it if you choose your route from the screen instead of looking around for the easy way.

Is it (GPS) helping to put an end to adventure??

A GPS is really useful if you park at the end of a logging road not shown on a map and want to see your car again. It is less useful finding your way in thick stuff as that is when you have signal problems.

Like any tool it can be dangerous in the hands of inexperienced users, when they rely on it incorrectly. In one of the earliest GPS-related rescues a guy tried to climb N Tripyramid without knowing the coordinates of the summit and without taking the coordinates of the parking lot. Then when he lost the trail, he called on his cell phone for rescue.

Right now, I'm not opposed to anyone who wants one to have a GPS. What I'm afraid of is that some day (before they become cheap and reliable) they will be required for all backcountry users so everyone will have to shell out $$ based on some bureaucrat's whim. I already know of a case where a landowner required a hiker to bring a cell phone to hike a trail on their property.

 

[Frosty]

Let's face it, the worse you can do if you get lost in the Northeast is spend a night or two out in the woods ... hello, isn't that why we go there?

Well, yes and no. Sometimes I "go there" to come back the same day. An unplanned night in the woods is never fun. Whether it be map and compass or GPS, I think it's good to carry soemthing to get you home the day you want.

At least staying in the woods an unplanned night isn't generally fatal in the summertime. I bought my GPS after the woman died on Lafayette last March, and I realized that with a GPS she and her husband could have found the right trail even in a whiteout. (Compass would have worked here, also.) Also thought about the ranger that died going from Bond to Galehead, not taking the trail down to Zealand hut because he evidently walked by it. (Don't think a compass would have helped here.)

I don't always carry my GPS, so I guess in effect I agree with you. There are many hikes in the Whites where you don't even need a compass, where just walking downhill is the proper thing to do. Other places a compass is a good think to have, and sometimes compass and map.

I think the worse thing about GPSs is that people who don't use them think they are a cure-all, that they make trail finding easy. ANd that just isn't the case, and can lead to trouble. I know hikers to whom a map and compass would be useless, and the same is true of GPSs, probably more so.

Like any tool, it pays to know how to use it.

Others have compared it to a toy, and I guess that is true to some degree. I have always been fascinated by geography and maps, all kinds of maps, and a GPS is another way to enjoy myself.

And that's why I go to the woods, to enjoy myself.

Frosty

 

[Bhoody]

a couple of points

Do you use a new-technology nylon tent with fiberglass poles, an older tent (canvas with wooden poles) or animal skins and branches?

But the tent doesn't tell me exactly how to get somewhere... It might keep me drier, but it can't tell me - hey, where you want to go is three bumps over, not two.

I don't see that it reduces the physical challenge much, it may even increase it if you choose your route from the screen instead of looking around for the easy way.

I'm not so sure - the opposite could happen too - a GPS might enable you to make a trip in one try, intead of coming upon route finding challenges, etc and having to come back another day and try again.

Just was curious to see what others thought... Frosty is right anyway - I embrace certain forms of technology (e.g. nylon tent, jacket, etc)...

 

[Johnnycakes]

GPS Tip

For those that have trouble with their GPS losing satellite signals, here is a tip that has served me very well. Remember that your GPS will always work best when it has a 360 degree view of the sky. If it's hanging from a lanyard around your neck, it only has a 180 degree view of the sky because your body is blocking the rest of the view. That's where those shoulder strap mounted cases come in very handy; the higher you can get it on your shoulder the better. With the GPS high on your shoulder, the only thing blocking the view of the sky is your head. Now, some people's heads are bigger than others, but with the GPS high on your shoulder you probably have a 270-300 degree view of the sky, perhaps more.

This really works. The best part is that you don't even have to buy a case to achieve the same effect. Get yourself a thick rubber band, undo one of your shoulder straps, and put the rubber band over the shoulder strap and slide it up to the top of the shoulder. Rethread your shoulder strap through the Fastex buckle, and your good to go. You may need to knot the rubber band if it is too loose. When you are not pushing buttons or reading the display on the GPS, keep the unit stored under the rubber band on top of the shoulder. I would suggest still keeping the lanyard around your neck in case it comes out from underneath the rubber band. I actually bought myself a GPS case to go on my shoulder, but returned it because I decided I liked the rubber band better.

John

 

[steppinwolf]

what I've used my GPS for

I've owned a GPS unit for quite a few years and have taken it on a hike only once, and that was just to experiment with it, although I will certainly consider using it on certain occasions in the future that might involve bushwhacking and will consider buying one of those new mini ones, now that the price has come way down.

Mostly I use mine when fishing on the St Lawrence River, and I don't even use it all that much there. It definitely comes in handy to avoid shoals or to mark secret hotspots on some new underwater dropoff that I might discover while drift fishing, so I can return to it at a later date.

There is one feature that I like to use it for as far as hiking, and I don't even have to bring the GPS unit with me....but you still need a compass to have the fun. If you plug in the coordinates of all your favorite mountains, big or small (very easy to do right at home from topo maps or a computer map), you can then quickly come up with the bearing and distance of any peak or other landmark from whichever mountain you might be climbing. You can copy all these bearings from your GPS onto a piece of paper before you set out and when you get to the top, just sight your compass to the bearing of whatever peak or landmark you're looking for and quickly find it with your compass.

Or....once a certain summit or landmark is entered into your GPS, you can locate that landmark (distance and bearing) from any other peak or spot on earth, just by hitting the "go to" that landmark on your GPS unit. Sometimes I'll do that from my car, like if I'm wondering if that mountain in the distance is Ampersand or not, for example, and as long as the coordinates of Ampersand are in my unit, I can find the bearing to it from wherever, just by hitting a button or two.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I'm with Brian. I don't want a GPS. I fnid it so much more satisfying to find my way with a map and compass than it would be with a GPS.... And I find it much more satisfying to cycle down to the high peaks area than to go by car... (But it's tough taking tools for doing trailwork... Imagine crossing the border on a bicycle carrying this: http://newmud.comm.uottawa.ca/~pete/axeman2.jpg

And I'm fighting having to carry a cell phone. (a bunch of people want me to: both family and office)

And I don't think titanium is worth it either!

Am I too retro? No... I ski with modern skis using high-tech wax. I work building next generation internet 'stuff'.. My home netowrk has a bunch of computers, servers, etc.