Maine Hikers Save A Fawn

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We've been watching 4 robins from egg to fledgling. On day 12 they are all gone, and my wife saw a red tail hawk on the bush with the nest, so we don't know if they were taken or fledged or both. No signs of being eaten right there, however. Time to fledge is ~12-14 days. My kids were sad that they may have been eaten, but understood that the hawk needs to eat too.

Tim
 
Tim I wonder if it's the same hawk by us? He flies around everyday, and is nested on our property. He was pretty busy yesterday buzzing around (we got some great shots), and he was definately causing some ruckus in the trees with some other birds. After one nasty squabble with a robin, I got one picture of him with something in his mouth...
 
I'm not a huge hunter, but I believe this thread exists because hunting is a lost "mentality"; That providing for ourselves is natural and right. People are so accustomed to walking into a store and buying it, they've forgotten they're simply paying someone else to raise, kill and butcher the animal for them, and then seeing it occur in nature becomes traumatic.

I can understand if vegans are offended by it all, but offended meat eaters are being hypocritical.
 
Could be, Chris... For years now I've watched redtails soaring over my house, tending towards the top of the hill which would put them high and close enough for you to see. I don't know how much area they require, but riding around the state like I do, I see plenty of them, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are 2 or more in the general neighborhood.

Tim
 
Driving up I saw a fawn carcass on 93 that was vaporized by what I assume was an 18 wheeler. So I guess in some odd way this voids the fawns death in Maine. Humans intervened to save the one in Maine and this one died thanks to a human. Circle of life goes on. :cool:

Brian
 
Driving up I saw a fawn carcass on 93 that was vaporized by what I assume was an 18 wheeler. So I guess in some odd way this voids the fawns death in Maine. Humans intervened to save the one in Maine and this one died thanks to a human. Circle of life goes on. :cool:

Brian

I think I saw the same - Sunday morning around 7:30-ish northbound.
 
This thread has me thinking...fishers are the main predators of porcupines. Would these hikers in Maine stop to do something to save the cute little porcupine?
 
Hey, those porkies are kind of cute ;). I am not to happy seeing results of them feeding, but they are kind of laid back critters. You dont hassle them, they dont hassle you. Of course if you have a dog, its probably a less pleasant experience as the dog typically doesnt know the rule about not hassling porkies.
 
What if another large animal had come on the scene and disrupted the fisher long enough for the fawn to escape? Would that be different than a human? Why?

Humans are natural beings, as any other large mammal. We think we are more sentient, so we group ourselves separately, and judge our actions differently.

Compare and contrast. :)

Somehow i think If another predator had intervened it would be with it's jaws and would have stolen the fisher's meal
:)

The predator : prey index of ecology argues that a predator only expends energy on prey it nearly assuredly gets, or at least the gamble of trying will be a net sum game -- I agree with SAR MT ; the disservice to the fisher was an unfair userpt of it's precious energy.
 
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Somehow i think If another predator had intervened it would be with it's jaws and would have stolen the fisher's meal
:)

The predator : prey index of ecology argues that a predator only expends energy on prey it nearly assuredly gets, or at least the gamble of trying will be a net sume game -- I agree with SAR MT ; the disservice to the fisher was an unfair userpt of it's precious energy.

Nature isn't fair...disservices abound. It's the way of the wild.

Examples of "unfair" scenarios:

Something comes along that's interested in eating the fisher...the fisher runs off and, as a consequence, the fawn escapes.

A potential mate appears and distracts the fisher (that kind of thing can happen during mating season/estrous).

Echoing your sentiment, something bigger than the fisher comes along and steals the fawn from the fisher.

Again, nature isn't fair...what happens is what happens. The fisher has probably had food stolen before, from larger prey or from a mother protecting its young. Those other animals certainly didn't stop to think, "wait, the fisher worked hard for this, we should just leave everything be." No -- animals take what they need.

The hikers saved the fawn because they felt the need to save the baby animal...a "need" I emotionally understand, though I don't always agree with it. If these hikers had come across a baby fisher being attacked by a larger predator, they may have acted in the exact same fashion. Save the baby, it's a natural instinct.

Is it fair to the fisher? No. Is getting eaten fair to the fawn -- or the fawn's mother? Maybe, maybe not...the doe would argue that it isn't fair for the fisher to reduce her reproductive success, not after all that energy spent gestating, lactating, and otherwise caring for her young.

Food gets stolen. Someone's RS is reduced by a predator. And so it goes.

Should the hikers have saved the deer? My initial, knee-jerk response was no, for the reasons Sabrina typed above. However, after deeper thought, I don't think there is one right answer. The hikers were probably acting on their own natural instincts, just as the fisher was acting on his. Which instinct is "more correct?" I get the energy expenditure argument. However, that's just one way to look at it...there are others.


ETA: I also totally agree with the sentiment that the hikers saved the fawn only for it to be killed and eaten later. However, perhaps "later" would be enough time for that fawn to have its own young, thus increasing its (and its mother's) RS (reproductive success).

NONE of what I write should be taken as advocacy of rescuing prey from predators. Everything needs to eat. I just don't buy the "it's not fair" argument. Nature itself isn't fair, there's nothing fair about natural selection or hawks/doves or life in general (outside of what we humans try to make of it).
 
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Lewiston is the second largest city in the state. Other than another fisher or a house cat, there really are not a lot of competition for the fisher for prey. I'm sure it happens that a coyote is seen, but its not all that common in this area. Thorncraig is right smack in the middle of Lewiston. Im sure its possible, but I find the scenario of another predator coming along in this area unlikely. Fishers would most likely be at the top of the food chain.

If someone had stopped and asked the "hikers" on the street if it were right or wrong to stop a predator from taking down its prey, one might assume that they would say that its just a part of nature. Of course, that is just my assumption, so I can not speak for them. Personally, I agree that they just reacted in the moment.
 
Lewiston is the second largest city in the state. Other than another fisher or a house cat, there really are not a lot of competition for the fisher for prey. I'm sure it happens that a coyote is seen, but its not all that common in this area. Thorncraig is right smack in the middle of Lewiston. Im sure its possible, but I find the scenario of another predator coming along in this area unlikely. Fishers would most likely be at the top of the food chain.

If someone had stopped and asked the "hikers" on the street if it were right or wrong to stop a predator from taking down its prey, one might assume that they would say that its just a part of nature. Of course, that is just my assumption, so I can not speak for them. Personally, I agree that they just reacted in the moment.

Randall, I'm sure you're right about the relative lack of predators. My post spoke in hypotheticals to address the sentiment of "fair."
 
One thing funny about the situation is that the park is this very short trail in a wooded area in the middle of the city. Of the two times that I have walked it, I never really thought of it as hiking. When it hit the news, those that helped the fawn were called hikers. Sure, one could make the argument that they were hiking, but I guess I have a different mental image of what hiking is. I wonder if, when it hit the news, if they had not called them hikers, if this discussion would have been started on VFTT.
 
Nature isn't fair...disservices abound. It's the way of the wild.

Referring to the hiker's intervention...not any number of "natural" scenarios. Simply stated, its my humble opinion that hikers/humans should leave wild things alone and let nature take her course.

Now if the hikers were saving a baby human, that would be natural. :)
 
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Referring to the hiker's intervention...not any number of "natural" scenarios. Simply stated, its my humble opinion that hikers/humans should leave wild things alone and let nature take her course.

Now if the hikers were saving a baby human, that would be natural. :)

Actually, the maternal instinct extends past one's own species in a variety of mammals...especially primates...so one could make the argument that saving a baby of any species is natural, if one happens to be hairy and make milk. :)

Looking at it in that context, the hikers' intervention can be considered "natural." We are part of the natural world, we are animals, and we have instincts that can lead us to act in certain ways. All part of nature.

I see the point you're trying to make, but I also see expat's. I don't believe there's a correct answer, given that one could argue both sides of the issue. IMO, it just comes down to a matter of opinion.
 
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