mourning a lost mountain

[Mike Hartigan]

This thread will probably get mixed responses but this past weekend a friend and I went out for a bushwhack on one of my favorite northern Vt. mountains. This ridgeline route winds up through beautiful open hardwoods into a birch glen and onto open ledges with phenomenal views. The route tops out just over 3000' on what I have always thought to be state land, WRONG. As we approached 2000' a line of posted signs came in from the south and continued well up and over the top of the ridge. The name on the sign was from a completely different township than the above described area. I am aware that it is a free country and people have right to do with their land as they please but this posting seemed excessive. As a landowner myself I dont believe it to be correct to post land you do not live on and even then I am opposed to posting on a whole. After all we are only renting this planet from our children. I do hope this posting is just an anti-hunter trying to keep hunters out and I will be calling this person to find out but regardless the signs are a eyesore upon a once wild place and as in all of Vermont public access is becoming a joke. Prime examples are the Black falls region, a recent state purchase for which public easements were not secured which in itself promotes posting by adjacent landowners, and the Champion land deals in the Northeast Kingdom in which campowners are being forced out. Tough issues with unclear answers surround access but I am deeply saddened by this loss. I would like to know how others feel about this.

 

[Papa Bear]

Just wondering, what was the mountain you were climbing?

Pb

 

[Mike Hartigan]

I would prefer this location remain nameless until I can speak to the owner. The posting could be only a result of the possibly new owners being against hunting and accesing the land will be fine for hiking but untill I find out it is probably best left unnamed. Sorry.

 

[ripple]

Land owners who don't want hunters could simply post no hunting signs. Land owners who don't want anybody, place no tresspassing signs. My family owns land in N.H. and we have had many problems with people using ATV s tearing up our dirt road etc etc. In NH posted land is taxed more, but land could be posted to certain activities such as atv, snowmobiles, hunting, xcountry skiing, etc etc, and still enjoy the tax break. Our land is posted in regards to off road vehicles. Never had a problem w/ hunters. We find more trash and damage done during the summer months when there are a lot of hikers out there. If my family were to post the land, it would be to hikers and not hunters. Maybe these new owners of this mountain you speak of worked really hard to buy the land and just doesn't want to deal w/ the problems of having a lot of people traffic. There are a lot of hikers as you all know, who do not respect the land and that do not follow LNT. Contact the owner and see if he would give you permission to hike it. Otherwise find a different mountain.

 

[Rivet]

I don't see any issue. Maybe he doesn't want to deal with litter, people starting fires, liability issues, or just wants his privacy. This is probably the main reason people buy land out in the middle of nowhere - to get away from other people. So, no trespassing means just that.

Even without posted signs, responsible hikers would obtain permission to hike across private land.

 

[ken]

>>As a landowner myself I dont believe it to be correct to post land you do not live on <<

private property is just that "PRIVATE" if he doesn't want to share it that is his right - you are not paying the taxes on it, he is (and the land itself probably cost him a pretty penny).


>>we have had many problems with people using ATV s tearing up our dirt road etc etc.<<
it always amazes me how everyone that has little pieces of land (1/4 acre around a house with a nice lawn) all have a muddy quad parked outside - they didn't get all that mud from thier property - it is someone's elses mud.

>>I do hope this posting is just an anti-hunter trying to keep hunters out<<
just because it is posted does not mean he is an anti hunter - he may be a hunter who doesnt like sitting in his tree waiting for his deer to come by only to be disturbed by "tresspassers" spooking his deer in the other direction - maybe he has a bunch down the road with quads that are tearing up his land - maybe he liks to sit on the summit in the nude? - whatever his reason, if he would like to enjoy his land without the company of strangers he has every right.

 

[Mr. X]

Ken,

Dish it out, straight up, thats the way I like it.

X

 

[arghman]

This thread will probably get mixed responses but this past weekend a friend and I went out for a bushwhack on one of my favorite northern Vt. mountains...on what I have always thought to be state land, WRONG.

Two things about private land that hikers need to know (which you have certainly found out the hard way )
1) You need to be aware who owns the land you hike on. Not all good hiking places are on public land. If it's not public, ownership can change in a heartbeat, as can the landowner's policies / actions. You need to respect the landowner's wishes.
2) If the places you are enjoying hiking are on private land, SPEAK UP!!!!!! Chances are, you're not the only one who feels this way. There is funding out there on many levels (federal/state/local governments + non-profits) to purchase land for public use, or at least secure some kind of trail right-of-way. Call your local/state land trust and ask them. (here are some websites: Trust for Public Land Vermont Land Trust Society for the Protection of NH Forests Forest Society of Maine I don't know the best places to check for MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ.)

 

[rondak46]

NYSDEC rules read......

..... paraphrased.......

"The DEC ecourages landowners to leave their land unposted for recreational use".

This tells me that while I do not have a right to use the land, if it is unposted, I may assume that I can use it until informed otherwise.

Mike

 

[David Metsky]

This tells me that while I do not have a right to use the land, if it is unposted, I may assume that I can use it until informed otherwise.

I don't get the same reading as you do. I'd check with the state laws, not a state organization's recommendation to landowners.

-dave-

 

[ken]

>>NYSDEC rules read......

"The DEC ecourages landowners to leave their land unposted for recreational use". <<

Rules????? - the DEC has nothing to say about it unless it is state land (or if you are polluting or poaching) .
the above reads more like a DEC "WISH".
there is no reason why a landowner should have to spend money and time on posted signs to keep people off his land - it is not for you just because he didn't post it! - how would you like to be in your yard sucking down a beer and have someone come along and set up a picnic beside you just because you didn't post your 1/4 acre? - - - - there is plenty of state land in n.y. - you are not to assume that anything "unposted" is for you unless it is a park or other public land (and even some of them you have to pay to use) - watch for the yellow "forest preserve" and "state land" signs for your enjoyment.

 

[Mike Hartigan]

Well I knew the posting issue is complicated. In Vermont I believe that if the land is not posted you do not need permission to cross that land. Different uses ( hunting with a stand, atv use ) require landowner approval but for the most part unposted land is open land. As for where I was the access point is on a lumber mill's property and they have never had a problem with public use. This posting was so high up that I believed I was on state land because an old paint blaze line seem to indicate the 2500' upper limit of logging operations and state forest is very close by. I always practice LNT as do all I hike with as I believe most hikers do. I know it's a pipe dream but I would like to wander in the woods unfettered by boundarys. I have been wandering these northernwoods for close to 30 years and each year the woods get smaller. If landowners close their land for good , a trend which has increased dramatically recently then the vast majority of Vt. will become inaccessable to the public and my son will never get to see these places and this deeply saddens me. Patiently waiting for the rock.

 

[REK]

Granted this comes from a hunting perspective and only applies to NH, but it does address this issue as a whole.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Hunting/hunt_landowner_hunter_FAQs.htm#Landownerquestions

Bob

 

[Dennis C.]

Interesting post .... coming from VT, no less. Mike H. states this peak "tops out just over 3000' ", so I know I've been up there at some time in past years. For the most part, we never had mountain access problems in VT, except once in the Northeast Kingdom. One would generally expect "Posted" signs in just about all private areas in the Catskills and some in the Adirondacks too .... but Vermont? I guess "times are a changin' .... eh umph!"